Yes disappointing, theY support our marriage and want for us to reconcile but feel they can't interfere. I am going to follow up though and let them know Iam not asking for them to take sides or become involved but help support me to save our marriage. I would like them speak to WH and express their disappointment in the affair and abandonment of his family and hold him accountable for his actions. They have always taken a stance of not interferring in other people's lives but I thought given she is an ex pyschologist and mother,MIL,grandmother they would be proactive in helping save our marriage and family. I don't know whether MIL is concerned about losing contact with son or further bonding WH & OW (lots of pyschologists view any attempt that is seen as an attempt to end affair bonds the WS & OW)

Joined facebook .... must be last person without an account. Trying to find a facebook account for her, I know she has one as I have come across posts re bodybuilding when I googled her. Attempting to find if her bodybuilding partner was also her ex partner so I can contact him. Have list together for WH (family, friends, work etc).

Reading articles on exposure etc and rereading notes I made re advice given on other posts. Also reading articles and links posted in my thread.

Thanks everyone for suggestions and advice to date

Unfortunately all WH family are in Australia. My widowed mother is the only one living in NZ and she lives in self contained 2 bedroom apartment downstairs. WH currently has fortnightly weekend access.

I agree her history and inability to maintain a long term relationship together with the odds of affairs failing make this so devastating. The impact on our family and financial security seems too great a price for a relationship that won't survive. One thing my MIL pointed out was that OW will repeat the patterns in her previous relationships and that will also play apart in the afair ending. WH is a Chief Risk Officer shame in his foggy thinking he didn't assess the risks in starting an affair and the sacrifices he is willing to make to maintain a fantasy.

WH told me he "got together" with OW after he told me marriage was over. I find it hard to believe that he would leave the marriage and family and move in with OW after being together less than 1 week unless thats when EA became PA .. would it happen that quick or is this a wayward lie? WH told DD that he and OW had been together 2 months (ie Oct DD 26.11). WW told DD that they were the catalyst for each other ending their current relationships. OW had been in an emotionally abusive relationship ... wonder if this is OW cry on shoulder tactic. WH told DD that he and I had grown apart, I was image conscious and cared what poeple thought and he did not.

[/quote]

Question - hopefully MelodyLane may offer some insight.

I would have liked the truth as to when their affair started, I don't think WH wil be honest here. My WH insists they "got together" after he left the note ending our marriage. Obviously there had to be at least and EA when he gave initial bomb drop. Is it possible it became a PA after he left the note? Would you leave a marriage 1 week after it became a PA? Looking back with the exception of possible business trips if OW attended (don't know), he could have carried on EA during work hours as time was accounted for outside these times. Week of bomb drop he left earlier and reurned home 1/2-1hr later so possible PA. Would you announce marriage not working if EA wasn't PA?

Summary:
Saturday morning bomb drop marriage not working
Next Saturday leaves for business trip & leaves letter "its over
Following Sun - declares moving into sparebedroom OW house

It all seems to have happened so quickly - domb drop then 2 weeks later moving out. He did tell DD they had been together for 2 months ie mid/late Oct (before bomb drop. He denied this when I spoke to him about it.

Happy,

It's very likely that the affair was PA after such a short time. We've seen them turn PA after one meeting. Why would he tell your DD that was two months? Hes not lying to her he was lying to you, because all waywards lie.

Read this and you will see some crazy stuff like "why can't I have a wife and a GF"
You will make yourself crazy trying to figure them out. Waywards are addicts and the affair is their crack pipe.
Craziest things to come out of a Wayward's Piehole

Now after all that why do you want to know?

If he ever wants to be a true repentant and wants to reconcile you can have him do a poly. Then you will know everything.

When you do your Plan B letter you can make that one of your conditions.
(((Happyfuture66)))

The affair was physical and started before he told you he wanted out. The affair is WHY he wanted out. However, that is all completely irrelevant. Telling your spouse you "want out" does not justify adultery. Adultery is adultery. I would NEVER allow yourself get dragged into a fogged out argument justifying adultery. just say adultery is adultery.

Here's another good read.
Wayward fog disassembled and decoded

Quoted to reinforce.

After D Day I spent months doubting my H would ever do such a thing... not wanting to believe he would betray me in such a way and wondering if the A went physical after separation. This is what ALL waywards want us to believe. It gives them a better chance of cake eating with us, and also convincing everyone else that they have met their "soulmate". After all, introducing skanky as the one he was shagging whilst your back was turned hardly sells her to friends and family.

Don't wonder about this. Don't justify his behaviour. Don't buy into HIS justification for his behaviour.

After all, he IS still married. The vows don't include an opt out clause "foresaking all others until WS says so".

I know it doesn't change anything and I wasn't wanting any details just when the affair started. I guess I was trying to make sense out of it and determine if it was a MLC affair or simply an affair. It confirms his "reasons for leaving" was a complete re write of our marriage and an attempt to justify his behaviour as I believed. It also means (with the benefit of hindsight) apart from affair proofing our marriage there was nothing I could have done to stop him leaving, he was addicted
to how OW made him feel and prepared to sacrifice everything to maintain the fantasy.

Thanks ML I know its irrelevant as noted in reply to BH, I needed to know if the affair had started before he fired the bomb drop and confirm it was his inability to maintain an appropriate boundary with OW not the behaviour I was accused of. Even though I knew he had re written our history and denigrated me (his excuses were so inaccurate) in the beginning I would analysis everything trying to make sense of it all and wondering if I did things differently would the outcome be different. I accepted that even though his perception of me was not accurate that it was his reality. I knew I was not to blame for him having an affair it was his decision, but somehow this sort of helps if that makes any sense. I know it was about his ego being stroked and how she made him feel not necessarily about me or our marriage.

This is also irrelevant but makes its good to finally express - I am not laying all the blame at OW's feet WH made his decision, my insinct & the things I have learned about her or remembered, seem to confirm that she was a predator and took advantage of what she perceived to be a vulnerable senior executive. I think she looked at WH as a great target and potential better lifestyle. My husband has alot to offer but at the time he was overweight (lost it now - they go to gym together on protein shakes etc), greying & 10 years older. Both her ex partner and former husband were her age and bodybuilders like her, so what would someone obsessed with bodybuilding and body image see in WH?
You have to wonder why the rush to buy a house together. 2 weeks after he moved out she was selling her house and he was wanting to sell our assets. Now because they have been on the market for 2 mths he wants to fire sale and capitalise our mortgage so he can access the money instead of meeting the repayments. What the rush? Could it be she is anxious to purchase before time runs out? She has a history of short term relationships.

My favourite which makes me laugh and keeps me sane:

After agreeing to wait until after Christmas school holidays to list properties for sale WH after returning and discussing with OW rang to say "we needed to sell now as OW had offer on her house and she has 4 cats and they wouldn't be able to find somewhere to rent for the cats" I replied "I knew I had been replaced as a person of importance but I never thought her cats would take priority"

I did politely note that was OW problem to find a home for the cats and not mine.

Very true. No matter how they justify even in separation they are still married and commiting adultry.

Just received delightful email from WH in response to me advising him that I couldn't sign offer on our vacant land as it was part of the Settlement Agreement, nor was I in a position to reduce the sale price of other property until I had Separation Agreement honouring our agreement that the children and I could remain in the family home.

Accused me of delays, extortion, blah, blah,blah. Our original agreement is null and void.

Referring to our home as our family home is nonsense as we've only moved there last June (relocated cities). "Please desist from insultingly using that term as my family home and my family is elsewhere"

I will respond to your lawyer but that and this email will be the end of any correpsondence on that matter until Nov 2013 when I divorce you and marry OW and continue growing our family together.

What a wayward jerk ... doesn't like any emotional reference to the family home and has a real problem with me living in our home or paying child support to me. Not a problem that it is for children but fact that he is paying it to me.

WH has a lot of guilt that he will not acknowledge and unfortunately is projecting his anger at me. His rage is blinding him.

happyfuture66,

How's your exposure coming along? You ready to drop the bomb?

Have you found an IM yet?

Remember you are doing a 1 week Plan A so just try and stay calm when he starts spouting wayward fog. I know it hurts but try to have a great come back ready.

"I am fighting for my M" "Did you know the sun rises every day in NZ"?

Hang tough happyfuture. We know the pain and we know how waywards suck.

His anger and guilt are what fuel him right now.

First off, he is not having an "MLC" he is having an affair. MLC is a mythological construction. He is behaving the same way all adulterers behave whether they are 50 or 25 and none of them are in their mid lifes. If you go and read all the other threads you will see the EXACT same behavior, rewriting of history, bizarre rationalizations, all apply to adulterers.

Your husband is addicted to the OW and is prepared to sacrifice everything. But there is MUCH you can do to stop it, and that is exposure and raising as much hell as possible in the affair. It is harder to stop an affair, though, the longer it has gone on with no interference. This one has gone on a very long time with no interference.

His fantasy has been very protected and when you say things like this, it interferes with the fantasy. That is good! The exposure will have a grand effect on him.

My suggestion would be to go into Plan B as soon as you get every thing set up, ie: intermediary, finances, etc. Then start blowing up his affair with a nuclear exposure. Here is a sample Plan B letter telling him not to contact you:

Plan B letter from Dr Harley's book Surviving an Affair:

My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon

Send a copy to the OW with a note on it: ["skankyhola" was my addition ]
Pg 81
Dear Skankyhola, I love WS with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for him to give me that chance.

Getting infor together. To be honest when I first read about exposure I wasn't looking forward to it. Now I am ready for exposure, apart from fighting for my marriage I am determined to get the truth out there, he needs to be held accountable. If for no other reason than to try an inject some reality so his foggy behaviour doesn't impact our children.

I certainly know about his anger and guilt fueling him I have been wearing the brunt of this for the last 3 months. Somehow I have drawn on inner strength and haven't had many AO & no DJ a few teary conveersations though.

I don't know how successful Plan A will be given his last email. Hopefully my reply was honest without any LB. Below is extract: what do you think?

"Sadly your actions are the sole reason for the position we find ourselves in. You can continue to manipulate the truth, emotionally blackmail and threaten me but one day you are going to have to face the reality of your actions and the devastation you have caused our family.

I have accomodated you throughout our separation and shown nothing but kindness towards you. I agreed to sell some of our properties to reduce the mortgage and repayments. Honouring our intitial agreement to sell the properties after the school holidays is not a form of delay.

Regardless of your actions at all times my decisions have been based on protecting your interests, your relationship with our children and your welfare. I can say this with all honesty because my actions were been based on the love I held for you. I never have nor would I do anything to intentionally hurt you. I was standing for our marriage and family. I have handled your affair, our separation and your behaviour with self respect, dignity and grace. I have been a positive role model for our children.

You need to acknowledge your feelings and take responsibility for your actions. You are projecting your anger at me and your rage is blinding you.. I am concerned when you finally face reality and the devastation you have caused you will struggle to come to terms with that. I sincerely hope you will be able to deal with this. Ironically in your attempt to justify your behaviour and denigrate me you stated you had lost your identity and soul - these were not lost during our marriage, you were a man of intergrity, principles and creativity, a man I respected and admired, someone I was proud to call my husband and the father of my children. You have been willing to sacrifice your principles, integrity, our marriage, family, financial security, even your career for a relationship outside our marriage. I hope in the future you do not regret the sacrifices you have made. I have mourned the loss of the man I knew and loved and have accepted the man you have become. I honestly bear no ill feeling towards you, nor do I judge you.

It is a shame though it has come to this and the impact this will have on our children's ability to move forward, their future lives and relationships."

No I havent found an IM yet, I honestly can't hink of anyone who could remain impartial, even new friends here in Wellington someone I trust who doesn't really know BSI don't think she could detach emotionally from the situation to be effective. Still trying to figure this one out.

HF, the person doesn't have to BE impartial [any decent person would not be] just be willing to BEHAVE neutrally and act as a SPAM filter. I am an IM for 2 couples and believe me I am not impartial!! But I am neutral in my dealings and only pass on pertinent information about child visitation, finances, etc. Can you think of someone who do that? It is the easiest job in the world if it is done right.