So have you tried any POJA recently? How is that going?

He got angry the last time I tried to POJA something important 2 days ago so I've been trying to avoid those unpleasant exchanges for a few days. Will try again soon.

Hoping, you shouldnt be walking on eggshells with someone who cheated on YOU!!!.

And you shouldnt be trying to force through POJAs. If he's not jumping through hoops to make things better for you, he's wasting your time.

I would simply say you expect to see him POJA soon (give him three serious issues you want to see resolved) if he expects for you to stick around at all. His choice.

Present it to him with your other EPs in written form. Be repetitive that he needs to impress you with actions in order to keep you.

If he gets angry or calls you controlling, go all wide eyed and say 'Only if you are enthusiastic, and CHOOSE to POJA, will I remain interested, sweetums. I have no interest in controlling an unenthusiastic husband. If you are not enthusiastic, I will have my answer about the future of our marriage."

Make your point and drop it or leave. Dont get into any debates, because this stuff - making amends for betrayal - is not debatable.

She needs to listen to Dr. Harley's advice. Which was to POJA moving together and email/call Dr. Harley and if he refuses to go to Plan B.

He won't even write Dr. Harley an email.

Oh yes, Dr H's advice was perfect as usual and which is why I hope she is lining up Plan B to start very soon.

However in the meantime she shouldn't be apologetic in her Plan Aing or he will simply not take her seriously.

Plan A means standing tall and leaving a lasting impression of firm but fair before you go into Plan B.

I'm afraid that isn't Plan A'ing but Plan Doormat. He doesn't want to POJA small things and gets mad at her. He doesn't want to write Dr. H an email and he doesn't want to move where they can be together.

I asked her how her Plan B was coming and she said she is giving him more time. I'm worried about her.

Thanks I missed that, of course he doesnt get more time.

Hoping do you understand the timescales of Plan A, that it should not last longer than three weeks? Plan B is not a closed door, it is not the end of the marriage...A repentant spouse can still make it happen in Plan B.

In fact, Plan B saves more marriages than Plan A does, Plan A sets the stage, Plan B effects their realizing their need of you along with protecting your love for them.

I don't feel ready to go to plan B yet. I'd like to see WH once more face to face for a week (I am going down to do this May 1) and continue to Plan A and state my EPs and conditions for marriage. Don't forget that we are separated and I have only had one week (in person) to plan A. WH has read a few pages of SAA and I will push this when I'm there.

I know I'm not following MB right now but I don't feel ready to Plan B yet. I feel that WH doesn't have much motivation to meet my conditions if I have not been meeting his needs since my last trip (top needs are SF, affection and RC). He does, however, still beg me to be with him so I have hope. I don't think he will meet my conditions in Plan B though because he is stubborn and will see my Plan B as an ultimatum. But who knows, I really do believe that Plan B is necessary, just not yet.

I feel that I have a bit more flexibility in Plan A/Plan B than most in cases of infidelity because there are no signs of a current affair and the affair he did have was with unknown online people 6 months ago. I'm treating this as more of a "he won't follow MB" Plan A/Plan B model but with some added conditions like a polygraph. In those cases Dr. Harley recommends giving more time to Plan A and having a more flexible Plan B (in his article "When to call it Quits" he actually let the couple have phone contact in Plan B.)

Thanks for your concern. I know I'll probably get a 2 by 4 now.

You are choosing misplaced hope, denial and feelings based on your lovebank and gaslighting. No facts are mentioned here.

The plans are not run on feelings (thank goodness) but logic. You may not feel like doing the hard work of Plan B, but choosing to chicken out in Plan C makes the odds of divorce MUCH higher, not to mention a nervous breakdown as a bonus.


Plan A involves carrot and stick and can easily be done in a week. You have done both for FAR longer than the recommended three weeks - it doesn't have to be done in person. And he continues to spit in your face. He thinks you will take it forever. The longer you do so, the less respect he will have for you.

What are you waiting for? Plan A hardly ever works without Plan B being used too. You are actively undoing the good work of Plan A by shifting into Plan C and Plan Doormat.


Which you have done on the trip and long distance. You don't have to actually HAVE SF, just say you are willing to meet the need.



All addicts are stubborn. They all beg for you to be cake. Why on earth would his begging give you hope? Its one of the clearest signs he is not to be trusted. Your H is typical.



Pushing is a lovebuster. MBers don't push. Remorseful husbands don't need to be pushed. Unremorseful husbands are Plan B'd, where they have the best chance of finding remorse.



So it wasn't infidelity now? Your heart wasn't ripped out by that betrayal? You aren't experiencing severe depression? You don't need EPs and remorse now? Before you have a breakdown and or lose all love for him?

Good luck with that.

Oh and as for flexibility, Dr H says the "tiniest deviation in recovery plans is usually disastrous" recovery from infidelity is a narrow path.

And what's worse: you know it


Try following the plans instead of fear.

You are wise. I wish I had your strength. I am somewhat of a coward when it comes to these things. I will start preparing for Plan B at least and work on my resolve.

I don't think I'll have a good candidate for an IM. Would you be willing to be my IM?

I could be, if you were willing to stick to the plans to the letter. I am not a very 'flexible' IM.

Thank you! I really appreciate this because I'm pretty uncomfortable asking anyone else to do it. How about I work on my Plan B letter and resolve to commit to it first and then I'll see if you still want to be the IM.

Now you're talking! Don't fall prey to getting wishy washy and being affected by what he says/does. Waywards talk are fogbabble, respond with the plan, not being emotionally manipulated.

Post your Plan B here before you give it to him...

Good job on preparing for Plan B. Just like the good Doctor ordered.

Are you going to go into Plan B after you make the May 1st trip to see him or before?

I would NOT recommend any delays with Plan B, hoping.

You exposed March 10 you should have been in Plan B weeks ago.

WH is getting smarmier and angrier because he thinks he's home free. He has done nothing and you're still in contact almost two months on; he feels entitled to be wayward by taking your lack of action as consent.

You are also getting weaker and your bar for recovery is getting lower because he's wearing you down.

Visiting him now would be a disaster.

If you click the link in my sig it will show you how to prep for Plan B. It takes at least two days to prepare a tight plan.

In the meantime you can plan A via skype, phone or email to leave a good impression. Be firm about your conditions. You can put your emails here for feedback if you wish. You need to sound really strong.

If he asks if you are visiting on May 1, I would say you 'can't wait' to spend time with him once he meets your conditions.

I agree that she should get into Plan B sooner than later.

She talked to Dr. Harley on 4-10-12 and now it's 4-25-12 and he hasn't even written an email to Dr. Harley.

Unless she can POJA the move or any other issue like Dr. Harley says, but he doesn't even want to do that.

I don't feel ready for Plan B yet, I'm sorry. I think I need a few more weeks before making such a big decision and I'd like to see him one last time.

Hoping its your decision but sticking around an unrepentant wayward will have one of two effects:

1) He will wear you down into accepting fewer, weaker conditions so he can get you into an FR. Remember he doesn't even consider webchat sex as affairs.
2) You will lose what lovebank you have left and there will be no hope of recovery because the one spouse who gave a damn (you) gives up and goes into Plan FU.

What Plan A task would you say is undone? Just do it long distance.

Why, logically, do you 'want to see' an alien wayward?

Because he's good a fake needs meeting, like affection?

But boosting your lovebank at this stage will only make it harder to go into Plan B, not easier.

If you are waiting for fairies to come and grant you resolve, I'm afraid they won't show.

When I went into Plan B, I felt I was sawing off my own limbs and I had to have people stay with me to stop me from calling him.

That's how its supposed to feel. You don't feel cool, calm and resolved unless you've already let the lovebank drain.

You just have to do it anyway and wait for the resolve to come later.

Feelings follow actions.

In what way is asking him to end his adulterous lifestyle - and to let you know when he does - a big decision? Its a decision for him, not you. You and the marriage are still there - no decision is made there.