Steve didn't comment on our living apart and my job situation. That surprised me too. My impression was that he mainly wants my husband to become educated in MB concepts before tackling the infidelity issue. He implied that the internet sex was more of a gray area than full out infidelity but he may just be waiting to address this until after WH gets a clue about how to be a thoughtful spouse by learning MB concepts.

I will be on the MB radio show this coming Tuesday, 4/10/12. I'm very eager to see what Dr. Harley and Joyce have to say about my situation!

That sounds great, cant wait to listen! Post to remind us on the day, ok?

Let us know how it went, okay?

I will be on the radioshow in about 10 minutes. I hope you all will be able to listen. It is rebroadcast until tomorrow.

I'm back again.
I've come to the realization that I've been lingering in a form of "Plan Hope" for several weeks. I've known this all along because of course "my situation is different." I've been hoping that my husband would be motivated to work on our marriage after the internet affairs that he had.

He is still showing a half hearted effort but agreeing to almost all of the MB concepts. Problem is, I don't believe that he will follow through with the concepts, such as POJA, etc. Right now my Plan Hope consists of verifying if he truly will follow POJA, RH, and maintain EPs.

I'm getting sick of this.

However, I'm not sure if I'm ready yet to let go and do a good Plan B. I have had many ups and downs throughout my Plan hope but I'm getting to the point where I think I'd be better off without him, don't even know if I'd realistically take him back if he met all of my conditions. Not sure if this is just my taker talking because I know I'll be in a world of pain when I start plan B and get cut off from the ENs that he meets with our limited contact (over the phone).

My "Plan" at this point is to "test him" and see if he truly will follow through with all of the promises he has made -- especially following POJA, which I doubt he will ever be able to follow. He enthusiastically says that he will follow it, which I want to believe, but I just can't. It's hard to test when he is in Texas but I am going to propose that we renegotiate where we will live. This has been a huge source of hurt for both of us -- although I broke POJA by making him live in Minnesota, he also broke POJA by giving me the ultimatum that he was living in Texas, regardless of where I plan to live. If we are going to reconcile, we obviously need to renegotiate this or it is a HUGE POJA violation and a deal breaker if he refuses to renegotiate.

You all may have heard my radioshow segment on 4/10/12 (1 & 2). Dr. Harley didn't sound very hopeful for our marriage but said that if WH could agree to and follow POJA that's a great sign. He later emailed me that if not, my marriage will end sooner or later bc of WH's thoughtlessness and his online affairs are "just the tip of the iceberg." That man is a genius.

Remind me, this is the segment that your WH has "machismo", correct?

Are you going to move to him or he to you? Have you practiced POJA with him yet?

(T/J Does anyone have the link for this? Whenever I try to listen to archive stuff on the radio I just get a failed message. but whenever anyone posts a link on threads, its fine.)

Hoping you sound a bit all over the place to me, hon. The MB plans dont work unless you correctly diagnose what point you should be at, and then stick to it TO THE LETTER.

Dr H says even a tiny alteration is usually disastrous.

I thought you were counselling with Steve H and had a revocery plan in place? Where are you up to with that? What does Steve recommend?



That's usually what someone says when they have put off Plan B for too long. They get messed around, there's no plan and then they lose all will motivation and the love bank gets emptied.

I would tell Steve H that you're about ready to quit and see what he says, because your alternative plan, just sounds way too messy.....



I really hope this does not mean you insisting on living in Minnesota, as that was a very destructtive move to your marriage. The plans hinge on the BS taking responsiblity for past mistakes and PROMISING TO NEVER MAKE THEM AGAIN.

You've had it explained to you over and over that one spouse insisiting that they will only live in one place, and not negotiate is NOT POJA.

There is no way you will get him to learn POJA by breaking it yourself.

I hope I have misunderstood you here.

radio clip4-10-12
radio clip

radio clip

I think machismo is in 2 nd or 3rd.

Thanks!

No problem. Let me know if they work, because someone else is having a difficult time listening also.

Indie: You misunderstood about where we will live. I want to renegotiate where we will live, not insist on living in Minnesota. This means using POJA to come to an enthusiastic agreement on where to live, not either side insisting making the decision independently, which is what happened before. I better make this very clear when I bring it up to him so that he doesn't think I'm saying now he has to live in MN.

We did have a recovery plan, but I'm disillusioned with it because WH is not showing much effort in learning the MB concepts and following them. I'm now rethinking the recovery plan and considering going to Plan B instead, but I don't think I'm really ready for this step. I haven't talked to Steve again because after talking with Dr. Harley on the show (and corresponding with him on email) I realized that forcing WH to do phone counseling may not get me anywhere. I'd rather see actions from WH rather than empty promises, which he is very eager to give.

I just feel so guilty about all of this, especially going into Plan B. WH is so hopeful that we will stay together but I haven't seen much real action on his part. Knowing the stubborn, proud man that he is, Plan B will be a slap in the face and I don't think he'll ever agree to meet my conditions, especially taking a polygraph. I'm fine with that because I think I'll have a great personal recovery but I'm terrified to do this because of the pain of withdrawal from him, the guilt of "doing this to him" and the fact that I probably will never talk to him again. I'm holding on to the last contact and just not ready to make the decision that will most likely end my marriage yet.
I feel like a coward, but this is where I'm at. Thanks for being here for me.

I've decided not to consider moving unless WH shows action to commit to MB concepts and (possibly) takes a polygraph, although I'm on the fence about the polygraph.

A polygraph should be a requirement. Great way to see if he's sincere, and getting yourself the answers that you want.

I'm sure the polygraph will be a requirement but I'm focusing on the MB concepts now because a polygraph will be a moot point if he can't even do POJA.

Hoping,

Have you tried practacing POJA with your WH, like Dr. Harley suggested?

How's it gong?

These may help. Read them all.
Having trouble with POJA

Dr. Harley actually suggested that WH write to him so he could convince WH of the need for POJA. WH still hasn't written to him but promises that he will.
WH actually does "agree" to POJA but then when we try to POJA something, he will say "but I can't give up xyz just because you don't agree." I just don't believe him that he'll follow POJA. I think that he's saying whatever it will take right now to get me to be with him but he's not backing it up with actions and I need actions!
*Sigh* I realize everyone claims that their situation is different but I honestly don't think I fit in to the usual situation here. My WH had an affair online but our relationship was having trouble before that. He wants to reconcile but is putting forth a half-hearted effort. I'm not in crisis mode anymore but still very down that this is what my marriage has to offer me now and I may be the one who has to end things without a reason that seems very compelling to me.
It just makes me feel so guilty because he gives me so much hope but then disappoints me with his lack of initiative and failure to back up words with action.

Your WH is no different from any other. The reason your marriage was in trouble was because he was busy chasing women online.

He wants to reconcile so he can have more than one woman tending his needs.

Good!



Yes you do need actions. Using the EPs Dr H recommends (and check out HPBs thread on EPs too) and make a list of the actions you NEED. I would definitely say poly, because one explanation for his reluctace is he's still hiding stuff. Someone who is still wayward has no desire to POJA.

If he doenst meet them, you have to go to Plan B.



I never understand why people feel guilt about Plan B. You are still offering a great marriage. Better than ever before! The door is wide open for the WS, but the door to great marrige is not held wide open for you. Why is the BS guilty then? I dont get it.

They do work