Do you think maybe your lack of initiation is hurting him when it comes to SF? It really bothers me that my WW fails to initiate, but she did with OM when that is my top EN, so bad that it eats at me sometimes. He was obviously devastated by the PA revelation. This can eat at his self confidence. I have told my wife that it bothers me so much that I can't live with the fact that she never initiates. Food for thought.

This, too, bothered me quite a bit. It was one of those dirty details I needed to know. Did she iniate the sex?

She claimed many times that she did not turn into a porn star with but the intimacy was a means to an end. She called it mild. That wasnt my question, however, and I told her this. Did you ever suggest lets hit the hay? I know very well he spent his time begging for it.

Well, I was curious quite a bit after the window of when I was able to ask for dirty details was closed. I found an some emails which were certainly not the treasure trove of sex filled communications. In fact, most were about work (they worked together). One, just one, did come close to what I was looking for: something to the effect of 'ill be late for work, lets grab lunch and drinks and...the rest is history.'

Considering in 15 years of marriage she iniated the contact between us seldomly. This hurt me.

However, this has not be an issue for us since dday. It has been something that I can honestly point to as being key to my happiness. It never seems forced. She has done a remarkable job of making it seems like its a normal part of our lives, like it should be.

Its not about hanging from the chandeliers or going outside what is normal for us in bed, its about making me feels wanted and by extension more like the man in this relationship.

I will say his, during her A and before, I had to browbeat and essentially beg for her to be with me. I told on more than one occasion its absolutely emasculating to have to go thru this routine of talking you into something a 30-some odd old woman should want in a healthy marriage.

We werent in a healthy marriage I came to learn last spring.

What's going on WPG? We're thinking about and praying for your family.

I_P, you must be psychic...yesterday afternoon broken and I finally had the conversation I'd been dreading, about our future, and where we are going from here.

We will be skipping over Plan B and heading straight to Plan D, divorce being what he wants. He says he doesn't want a relationship with anyone, doesn't want to take the risk again of getting hurt. If he dies alone, he doesn't care. He doesn't want to meet anyone's needs, doesn't think he is capable of doing that. That he hadn't even looked for that, he just wasn't interested.

I asked if there was anything I could say or do that would change his mind and he said no. I asked him if anything that I'd done had made a difference, had caused him to feel anything for me, and he said that it had made him "not hate me" and something to the effect of making it so he didn't not want to ever speak to me or have anything to do with me ever again.

All I could do was express my remorse, and that if I could take it back, I would do it in a heartbeat. That I hoped he realized that I didn't want him back b/c of money, or fear of losing our lifestyle, or the kids, that I wanted him for him.

I asked about the sex, and if it meant anything, or if he had just been using me. He said he was sorry if I had felt used, but that he believed he had made his intentions clear after he moved out when he asked for sex...that it was just sex, nothing else. I don't make him sick anymore.

When I asked him about the promises he made me to stay during our attempts at recovery (when we were under tha same roof), promises that he had told me I may have to remind him about when he felt like giving up or things got tough, he said, "People change." He laughed when I mentioned counseling or coaching.

Oddly enough what he wants is almost a wayward's version of a fantasy divorce, where we have essentially the same arrangement as we do now, only we don't live under the same roof. He'll pick the kids up every day, help them with their homework, and cook dinner. He wants to alternate weekends with them in a "nesting" arrangement, where the kids stay in the house and he and I move back and forth. He doesn't want to lose daily access to the kids, or become just a "weekend dad." He doesn't want for them the kind of life he grew up with, where his parents hated each other (over reciprocal affairs they never attempted to recover from) or his niece and nephew, where his sister and her ex divorced but don't agree on anything and talk hateful about the other in front of the kids.

I gave him back my wedding ring. He gave it to me freely, and I didn't give it - or him - the respect and honor they deserved. I told him that I wasn't worthy of wearing it and that it was his to do with as he wished, that I'd be lying if I didn't want him to put it back on my finger, but that I understood why he believed he could not.

It's like my heart is broken all over again. Plan A in my case had no effect other than create indifference as opposed to hatred. All it did was cause me to get my hopes up over every little tiny thing that even remotely looked positive. I'm not good enough for him, and maybe I never was. I don't really think I am good enough for anybody. I threw away my life, almost 20 years of my life, for nothing. For some empty words, false compliments, all designed to get in my pants. I can't blame him for not wanting to risk a future with me. Sure, I'm not the same stupid woman I was three years ago, but that stupid, childish, selfish, wayward woman that I was is to blame for the consequences I face today.

I'll be gone, for a while if not for good. I can't come here and read about other people's miracles anymore, when I wanted one so badly...when I prayed so hard for one and I feel like all my prayers go no further than my own ceiling. I can't give people advice about marital recovery when my own has failed so spectacularly. The best I can do is serve as a cautionary tale, perhaps to a would-be wayward wife who hasn't crossed that line of no return yet, that maybe she can read my words and understand the magnitude of her actions, the repercussions that may follow. I think the board is heavily weighted with success stories, which makes sense, but perhaps this thread can stand as a testament to the fact that not all marriages can be saved.

Thank you to everyone who cared enough to try and help us.

(((wulffpack_girl)))

I'm so sorry.

The luminous wisdom of this site will measurably diminish with your withdrawal, friend.

Sorry for the loss of your marriage and if MB lose's you. You have helped many here.

I'm sorry to hear this WPG. I hope that you will be able to find peace and, one day, love. None of us knows what the future brings.

I appreciate your insight from that side of the fence. You spoke in a remorseful, regretful way that my wife is not capable of, but certainly like you, has shown. It has helped me learn of the pain she feels.

I hope you take that with you for what its worth.

Peace be with you, keep an open heart.
You learned and changed and left that knowledge here for others to consider and relate too, that is a gift.
You should be proud of the changes in you.
Jessi

HUGS!!!!!

I hope you don't leave, I hope that helping others can help you heal. You have been such an asset in my eyes.

I think you are a little miracle too, you have grown and are quite admirable for what you have accomplished within yourself.

WPG I am a BS and I could have written this paragraph myself. The loss of a marriage is truly that ... rock bottom. It is so painful for me to read because your words ring true to my Plan A ... To my holding on for deal life to my WH ... to a man who used my Plan A to become indifferent. A man who would love for my Plan A to give him a "Fantasy Divorce".

I can look at my 17 years and often feel like you. I didn't commit adultery, but I did fail at my marriage. There are so many mistakes still being held against me by WH ... there are so many wrongs he will never forget.

Like you ... I asked, begged, wanted his forgiveness. A man who cheated on me ... I am begging him for forgiveness to my mistakes. I have always held my getting fat, AO's, and DJ's in the same category as adultery. With time I found how misguided I had become.

I guess in my world I never looked at my WH's adultery as unforgivable ... I figured if he would take MB action ... then I knew I could forgive and our marriage would be saved. I held my own sins in the same category as his sins. I tried for the past 18 months to never differentiate. I thought is what married folk do ... they move and correct the mistakes. Like you ... I worked diligently for the past 18 months correcting all that I failed and then some ... only to prove nothing. I get into my own pity ... I lost the weight ... I worked ferociously to eradicate all anger ... I study daily how to negotiate properly. I practice it daily on colleagues, my kids, my parents ... trying to master all that I failed to do. Again to no avail!

It is a hard blow WPG ... I can feel the punch to the stomach just like you. It is hard to walk away from something that is the most sacred and by far the closest experience to GOD. I used to think giving birth was the closest thing to God I would feel on this earth ... Nope my marriage is by far superior to all that comes after it ... we made a covenant with him.

I am sorry for your loss. In my opinion leaving these boards isn't the answer ... nothing is impossible ... one often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.

Allow your emotions to settle ... allow time to heal ... allow your friends here to walk with you through your pain.

As you can see your emotions and destiny are not so different.

WPG,
As I read this it broke heart and the tears won't stop. My WW seems to finally get it like you, but it looks like we are going to make it and it saddens me to see you so remorseful, but unable to reconcile. I believe that everyone makes mistakes due to several different reasons, but it's what you do with those mistakes and the wisdom that comes from them that builds character. You've learned so much hear that you have a unique opportunity to teach your DD's what a good wife should be and actually give them great pre-marital advice.

To the point...don't waste what you've disovered. I'm sure you'll go on to make someone a very happy husband someday and prevent others from making your same mistakes.

God Speed, and I'll see you in heaven.

P.S. Don't stop coming here, you'll need a place to vent and you'll be missed too much.

"In limbo."

You can finally remove this from your thread.



I'm glad to see you were both able to be honest about things.

Saying a prayer for Broken and for you as well.....


God has a sweetly broken WPG that I'm certain He has miraculous plans in store for.

WPG,

Sorry to hear the news, but you did all that you could and are in a better position for your next relationship.

I sometimes wonder if your situation would have turned out better had you exposed OM, good luck.

God Bless
Gamma

Big, big hugs WPG.

You'll be greatly missed, but I understand how this must make you feel.

Praying for you and you are one of the greats that has truly earned the FWW title.

There must be an end to this for you. I am at a loss for words to make you feel better, but I know you will pull through this.

There is a plan for you, and you will not be lost in Limbo much longer.

God bless WPG

WPG,

I have never posted here before and wasn't planning on starting until after I had read your entire thread (I am currently on page 92). Any time there was a new post I peaked ahead so I could see what was going on, however always went back to where I left off because I find everything you say so helpful.

I am so sorry to hear about what has happened. I know you may not think you have helped anyone or think you don't have anything to offer, but I want to tell you thank you because you have helped me.

I found myself a couple of months ago at a loss trying to figure out what my BH was thinking and feeling. I knew there had to be other people out there going through the same thing so I began a google search and found your posts. I found myself nodding along with you, crying with you, and cheering for you (in fact I had a dream about you the other night too, weird, I know, but that is me). I listened to the radio shows you were on and read your post comparing an A to a home invasion (I printed that out so I can remember what my H is going through). I am glad that now I registered I can find everything you have posted so I can gain more knowledge. I appreciated all the BHs that posted to you. They have helped me as well. IMHO I think this thread should be mandatory reading for WW so they can see what they are doing to their BHs. It has helped me talk to my H and understand him. I don�t think we have talked as much about our feelings in the 20 years we have been together (12 married).

If you never come back to MB I understand, but know you will be missed. Know you helped me, and I am betting there are many others out there who have never posted, but have been helped as well.

So here is a big THANK YOU & a {{{HUG}}}.

Im a former BH and she has helped me also!!

She has said the words and expressed what I always wanted to hear from my wife, sometimes it was close, but never as sincere.

Miss you already WPG