HF, what is "WH" and "EL?"

I'm in process of trying to prevent contact with OW via lawyer and Skylight (counselling organisation for children - change, grief, loss thru spearation.

OW is having a negative impact on our children, she has been actively manipulating them for her own agenda. Whether that is a personal attack (feed her narcism) on me or to create problems/distance between WH and I, or both. Bascially lying to children and bad mouthing me. My concern is the damage to my children.

If I post a few of her comments maybe someone can offer comments/advice to help or shed light on her actions. I appreciate everyone's insight and it helps arm me with either some new idea or will validate that I am on the right path of action.

OW TO DD 16:
Told her about my legal letter, that I was claiming everything. Incorrect, letter was to formalise our agreement with a legally binding document. DD intial response was to text me telling me if I continued with lawyer she would have nothin further to do with me. I have since told her I went to lawyer to protect our family and financial security.

I lied about DS6 wetting bed at their house, he never wets bed. DS has regressed and has been wetting bed due to current stich. I gave WH heads up when I learned DS changed himself, in case they hadn't discovered the wet sheets. As a mother wet sheets and PJ's is hardy and issue.

That she had to pay some of our bills as I had used the money for something else... Lie, bank statements can verify.

That DS6 isn't rough enough, he should be rough and tough like her neice and nephew!. He needs to be tougher, that I wss making him scared of everything. Our son is fine a normal 6yr old but he he is a kind, caring, loving boy not a rough nut or bully. He unfortunately developed the normal reaction to what has happening.

WH in his fog has changed his parenting views ... OW without kids or experience appears to know how to raise our son. The fact that I have raised 3children, partially completed early childhood degree, have volunteered at my children's schools for 16 yrs, worked in schools for 7 yrs, coached junior sport etc seems to count for nothing. WH has told DD he is going to toughen DS6. This includes not using a booster seat in the car. Ridiculous NZ legislation under 7yrs no laws to stipulate use even though police recommend, statistics and crash test results verify. WH always supported this in past.

OW TO DD6.
Told him he didn't wet bed.

Told him she and dad were getting married one day/later and he would have a baby brother or sister. She wanted to marry dad. She told him on a previous visit that she didn't want to marry her ex. I said dad couldn't marry anyone because we were married.

DS6 was sad when he returned because they said "mean things about you". When I asked if he wanted to talk about it, he said he couldn't remember. He did ask me "how you get married"
I told him a priest/pastor etc marries you and you agree to love, care for and look after each other. He said and not marry anyone else. I replied yes and he said "dad broke his promise". He wanted to know if I would remarry I said no I was married to dad, DS6 said good you are not breaking your promise. "You should tell dad not to break his promise"

Sorry meant Plan B letter to WH and exposure letter to WH friend & family & OW ... given they have been living together I amended letter and wanted advice whether to include or delete

Need to go to appointment will post letters later today.

I'd appreciate any comments, will my Plan A be of any help of leaving an impression, or will it just have to do?

Would appreciate any suggestions re OW. Note I am in process of trying to prevent contact with her

Please help - really confused and looking for insight from the vets and more experienced. Hoping ML is in MB Land and will see this while post is up top.

I started seeing IC 3 days before WH left, I hoped she could offer insight into how to save my marriage .... never received this but continued thinking IC would help me.

IC had noted that A usually fail and no one could redict outcome, no crystal ball no guarantee of return. At a later date IC indicated she thought the A would last approx year and WH was infauted/idealised OW. She has noted that over the last 2mths he has been angry and appears to be projecting his guilt and anger onto me and that anger continues.

WH has on a few ocassions (always during communication about listing our assets for sale) via text stated that:

"I am not coming back even if my relationship with OW fails! Which I am confident it won't. You need to accept our marriage ended, stop holding out hope for the impossible and get on with life"

"You truely need to understand that I did not move on b/c my needs were not being met. I have moved on, am in a relationship I want to be in and won't be coming back regardless"

When I refused to capitalise mortgage (increase debt) and not sell below miminmum market value, he emailed with variour threats and state he would divorce me in 2013 (2yr separation in NZ). When he received letter from my lawyer re property division and refusal to increase mortgage he again sent nasty email full of threats and stating that he would divorce me in 2010 and marry OW and continue growing "our family".

B/c these statements were always made with other threats and during times he was trying to get me to comply ... hew was acting out of character and I didn't take too much notice. I believed their relationship would eventually fail, given the statistics of A and her relationship history. I thought he 'may' believe what he is sayng b/c he's in the fog and/or it was a way of manipulating me to comply .... he wanted access to money to finance his A.

Now I'm confused. I told my IC yesterday about Dr.H & MB. She hadn't heard of either but thought Plans A & B sounded good (gave brief summary). She stated that their relationship did start as an affair but they were now living together. She thought I should only expose to friends and family if I wanted support but not to expose to others and not to do it to expect hope. She indicated she thought WH would not come back and that our marriage had ended, she didn't think I would want him as a husband after all the pain and his terrible behaviour. She also told me I was sad not having my father (deceased)around and a male figure would be good .... to be honest this was not something I'd thought about. If she has missed the mark here could she about WH. Does she understand infidelity or I am not wanting to face the truth?

I'm confused, I feel like I've lost direction when I had a path I was following. I know in my heart I can forgive the affair and behaviour. I get the pyschology of "waynerds". I believe when the A ends if we are both willing to commit we can restore love and rebuild a better marriage. I know I have the strength and ability to forgive and move forward.

I honestly don't know what to think or what path to take. Have I got it wrong? was it wayward babble? - is he truely happy, moved on with no intention of returning, should I accept that our 20 yr marriage is over with no hope. Should I just NC for short time to recover and then only polite friendly contact for the sake of the children? All resources indicate children move through separation in a healthy positive way if there is no conflict.

I am shattered, I feel confused, I don't know what to think. I really believed he had re written our history, everyone thought we had a happy solid marriage including me. Now I'm confused and have doubts as to whether I should stand for our marriage or accept that it has ended. I am willing to stand but is there really any hope. In a nutshell IC really 'crushed' my hope.

I'd really like some honest opinions particularly from the vets.

hf, your marriage has ended. That is the truth. That marriage is dead and gone and there are no guarantees he will ever come back. And of course, you don't want that marriage back because that marriage is what led to this terrible place.

The answer is to go into Plan B as we had advised. Get legal protection and stay in a dark Plan B for at least 2 years. If his affair does not end by then, you will be in a better mental place to finalize the divorce. And if he does come around, you can give consider giving him a chance to earn your forgiveness. It is very likely you won't want him back, though.


This is wrongheaded advice on her part. You should expose the affair wide and far. You never know who will get through to your husband. There is no reason to NOT expose to others and several good reasons to expose it.

I am unclear on where your confusion lies. Can you be more specific? Your IC pretty much told you what we already knew.

happy, so sorry i have been away for several days right when you needed help!

ML is the guru - she knows. plan b is the place for you. will your H come back? possibly. take IC advice with large grain of salt. it is kiwi mentality "what's done is done, just go with it." bull pucky. expose anywhere/everywhere you can, gf! your family is worth whatever effort you expend, whether it can reform (which, of course, is the goal) or metamorphoses (sp?) into something new.

and good for you trying to protect your family from nasty skankho. i don't know how lucky you'll be with it here, but you've got to try. stick with your line: keeping your family intact in safe is positive; lying & cheating and adultery is NASTY and SHAMEFUL!

keep up the good fight. take care of yourself, and make sure you have been totally honest with your two older children. they need to know the facts, all the facts, period. they will make up their own minds, and kids can see through manipulators. of course, kids are manipulators too, and they will happily take whatever skankho is handing out to "get" them on "her" side because they benefit from it. but they will know the truth inside, and they will return to you.

i'm here. i won't leave you out in the cold by yourself. i'll even check in from work from now on. have you gotten some ADs? they are a godsend during PB.

tomorrow you can do nothing, so spend it with your kids. be honest and open about everything. and good luck with the exposure. it really is the best weapon in your arsenal. i'll check back later tonight and tomorrow late morning.

Thanks ML I sincerely appreciate your time and you have given me the clarity I was looking for. I always recognised that whilst the affair was active that there was no hope, but I was willing to stand and wait for the affair to take its natural course. I hoped when A ended WH would want to reconcile. I still believe we had a marriage worth fighting for and that we could build an ever better affair proof marriage. This possibly seems silly ... I considered us still "married" and never thought in terms of our marriage has ended.... This was/is a hard concept to face.

When IC pointed this out and gave her opininion that WH would never return I lost hope and then direction. I lost sight of the potential benefit of exposing to WH work and OW family/friends because I lost that hope.... if that makes sense. I wondered if the fallout of his anger and giving him something to in 'his mind confirm his wayward view' of me was worth the impact on the children, given the impact of his badmouthing. I was no longer certain what was the right thing to do.

I was confused because I was no longer sure if I grasped the reality of the situation or was acting on false hope. My thoughts were ... if there is no hope should I focus on a plan that is in the children's interests rather than possible reconciliation or my recovery. My children were my priority. I didn't want to place them in a situation where they could not discuss their feelings etc, I wanted to support them through this. I also wanted a healthy environment where they could discuss their father, I didn't want him to become a "non entity". I even considered modifying Plan B, 1-2mths NC, then limited contact via emails only re children and financial stuff.

I know I have become stronger through this experience and will continue to grow, I am a survivor, I will recover.

I still love my WH, my love bank is intact, I honestly do not bear ill feelings towards him. I know regardless of any possible reconciliation when WH comes out of the fog and faces reality he will struggle with the pain of his 'alien actions and behaviour'. Whilst I am no expert the knowledge I have gained about waynerd behaviour has helped me understand his appalling and inappropriate behaviour. It has hopefully more times than not enabled me to act rather than react, no matter how painfull his babble.

While there are no guarantees, your best hope comes from exposing the affair. Exposure is ruinous to affairs, because they thrive on fantasy. Exposure ruins the fantasy and causes the affair to crumble faster.

It would have a great impact on your children because it would inflict harm to the affair. That is in their benefit.


That is not Plan B and will not be effective. If your children are your priority then you should expose the affair wide and far and go into a REAL Plan B. Not a pseudo 2 month play Plan B. That is what Harley calls "PLan C" which is the most likely to lead to divorce.

You become a much worse parent by staying in contact with him. There is absolutely no reason to do that. It not only makes you a worse parent [the stress from staying in touch with him] but it lessens any hope of future reconciliation. By staying in contact, you essentially prop up the affair.
With you out of the picture, though, the skank will be expected to meet all his needs. Since she is a selfish scumbag, she will fail in that regard. And keep in mind that she does not have the benefit of Marriage Builders, so when she doesn't rise to the challenge of meeting all his needs, the lovebusting will start. Affairs are characterized by abuse and when they start lovebusting, it quickly spirals out of control.

So my suggestion would be to abandon Plan happyfuture66 and stick to the plan that is most likely to save your marriage and benefit your children.

p.s. another benefit of a dark Plan B is that if your husband does not end his affair in 2 years, you will be emotionally prepared to move onto divorce. If he doesn't come back in 2 years, it is very unlikely that he ever will. By staying in Plan B, you will have the good judgment to make such a decision.

Letty, Thanks for your kind words and support. It really helps. The last couple of days have been tough, IC session and concern about a potential melanoma. Had a consult with a dermatologist yesterday, surgery booked for removal in 3 weeks.... I'm sure it will be fine.

Agreed Kiwi & Oz mentality is ridiculous. I hope I'm not up against that with OW family & friends. I'm expecting their response will be "get over it, move on, they are together now". Hopefully some one will have some moral fibre and express their disappointment.

I lost sight that exposure is important to get the truth out there and show I am not rolling over to OW. I am prepared to fight for my marriage and family. I'm hoping those with families will think about their own family and use their influence to end the A.

Our law here is frustrating, I mentioned to lawyer how US law prevents contact with OW. Sadly my instincts and suspicions about OW have been confirmed. She is a liar and manipulative.

Apart from bad mouthing me to my children she has been trying to establish her position. This all started after WH got a jacket he'd left here. I don't think she knew he still had stuff here. DD6 sent text to WH using my phone she replied "I will look for it and keep it for you, Thank you for coming to stay from OW" What a hide replying to DS on his fathers behalf and knowing it was sent from my phone. When WH rings DS6, DS puts it on speaker. OW kept making comments throughout call. The following weekend WH collected his stuff, OW sat in car on street outside home. How sad, doesn't say much about her, I would have thought a normal person would felt awkward. She was waiting on the street, where she belongs .... ow did I type that?

A further insight into her character:

WH is carrying a photo of OW in his new wallet. The photo is 10yrs old taken by an ex partner, although discreet its obvious she is naked. What sane person would give their current partner a photo taken in a previous relationship? What sane male would carry this photo? ... yuck

DD16 relayed a conversation between WH & OW.
OW: "you haven't cooked me a romantic dinner"
WH: "I'll cook you one"
OW: "we can use my wedding candles"
OW then proceeded to tell DD16 about the green wedding candles and the story behind them all while WH was standing there. How insensitive!

IC actually commented that OW was controlling and manipulating WH and everything. That WH was projecting this on to me with his accusations that I was controlling & manipulating. Easier to make me the bad guy than face her flaws I suppose.

If they are sooooo haaappy why do they need to discredit, undermine and attack me? You'd think they'd be happy in their fantasy.

I finally confided in the first of my friends a few days ago. We had a glass of wine & a chat last night. She was amazed at what a brave front I had been displaying and had no idea of what I had been going through. She has proved to be a great friend and invaluable support.

ML .. thanks I was intending to go Plan B after your earlier post. I was responding to your question about my confusion so you knew where my reasoning or lack of it was coming from. I believe if I am honest about my thoughts, feelings etc and you have an insight into my mind ... scary thought! I have a better chance of receivng the advice I need.

I've taken your advice on board, the benefit of your experience and your straight up advice is appreciated. Sometimes its hard to see the positives when emotions are involved.

Thanks so much for clarifying! I was getting very worried.... Please trust that the advice to go into Plan B is the plan that is most likely to result in reconcilation, if that is possible. And if it doesn't happen, you will be in a much better mental and emotional state to make the decision to move on.

Here goes, Plan B letter to Husband

Dear Husband,

This is not an easy letter to write, but is written with the true love that only a wife can have for a husband.

I acknowledge and apologise for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible. Iam willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and do what it takes to rebuild our marriage and create a new mutually satisfying life together. I cannot do this whilst you are still in a relationship with OW.

I have after careful consideration of our children and our current interactions decided to have no communication with you. Any communication regarding the children, finances or any other matter will be through IM. You are welcome to continue contacting the children by telephone.

I ask that you respect my decision, you must know of the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW. I simply cannot be in contact with you knowing you are with her.

When you are willing to permanently separate from OW and follow the precautions to safeguard our marriage, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's needs and avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy, then there will never again be a reason to separate. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there when you need me. I want you as my best friend again.

We have provided each other support and a scource of strength over the years in our personal and professional lives. Thank you for the love and care you have shown, it has helped me find strength within.

I have throughout our marriage loved you with all my heart,admired and respected the person you are and your achievements. I have appreciated you as a husband, father, professional executive and as an individual.

We have shared many wonderful times Mystery Bay, Kims Toowoon Bay, Ritz Carlton & our intimate champagne toast,the birth of our children and watching them achieve their milestones, Sth Is holiday,sharing the dream home and lifestyle at Company Bay. Thank you for these memories, I will always treasure them.

It is these feelings I need to protect to enable any future reconciliation. I am willing to forgive the affair, if and when you are willing to commit to the restoration and building of an even better marriage. A happy, exciting and mutually satisfying new marriage is possible.

All my love your wife.

I added the memories and affection paragraphs as I wasn't able to meet EN's or emphasise good times/what worked in marriage during my Plan A. The memories meet all his EN's perfectly.

Exposure letter to WH & OW work.

To Whom It May Concern:

It grieves me to write this letter but I feel that it needs to be brought to your attention.

WH and OW commenced an extramarital affair that took place, primarily, in the workplace. WH left our marriage to pursue the affair with OW and is now living with her.

I love WH and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I want to restore our marriage and rebuild the happy family that existed prior to the affair.

I would appreciate any advice you might have.

Kind regards, HF

Given they are living together and I am sure office is aware I thought this might be more relevant/effective.

happy, i think your plan b letter is good. i think the exposure letter needs more meat, but i can't help you there, as i didn't have that opportunity (my exposure to WHs friends was in person; no workplace). i'm sure ML will be in tomorrow to help you with it, as i know you'll want to get it off.

i truly hope this works for you and that your WH sees the light in the near future. plan b is hard, but so worthwhile.

there is some kind of bird in my tree making all kinds of parroty noises. i don't think it's one of our tuis. my goodness he is vocal!

good luck with the letters and starting your plan. i will check back tomorrow.

Check this out for workplace exposure letter. Workplace Exposure letter

Letty, I didn't think standard workplace letter was appropriate given they are living together and CEO (WH direct report) is aware of their relationship. He has even approved joint leave 3 times to date.

Anzac day last year we relocated to Welly so we could be a full time family and have a full time marriage again. We were all so happy, a new chapter in our lives, living together again no more weekend visits. Its sad we find ourselves in this situation. Sucks when holidays have so many associated memories.

I know going dark will spare me from any further pain but I really miss my husband and marriage and I will miss the communication/contact.