Indiegirl, of course, you are right. This is just so long for Plan A.

If we weren't counselling with SH, I would have gone to Plan B ages ago, for self preservation if nothing else. However, in this instance Plan A does seem to be working, without depleting Bank (and WH is actually re-attaching.)

WH is being very transparent, cooperative. A few early slip ups where he tried to initiate personal discussions w/ OW, but those went nowhere and he now understands where the line is. Of course, I am snooping/verifying with many back-ups, thanks to investgation forum.

I have been reading the forums daily, especially the longer threads which follow the arc of individual situations. (thanks, Doormat_No_More, wulffpackGirl, Neak, et al.) I realized that I ought to keep my thread updated as I have learned so much from others, and maybe in future someone will benefit from mine.

I was one of those BS's who was reluctant to expose. I had several good reasons/justifications.
1/ I thought I understood that Dr. Harley only really advised exposure if the WS would not end the affair.
2/ When I first found MB, I was uncertain if the site was truly helpful, or would turn out to be a covert commercial grab ("Take my seminar/buy my books and your marriage can be saved...") of which other sites are...
3/ It seems so counter-intuitive, vindictive.
4/ Other sites / sources advise BS's to be careful who they tell, because "you cannot take it back later."
5/ I was ashamed that my WH's A reflected back on me and my behaviour.
6/ I was afraid of poisoning our friends/family relationships for future.
7/ I am a lily-livered conflict-avoider. I did not believe my WH's outrage at exposure would abate, and it would be one more reason for him to chose OW over me.

I now see how valuable nuclear exposure is, and wish I had listened and exposed. All of my reasons/justifications were incorrect. I wanted to make the MB vets and posters here aware of why some BS's are reluctant to expose. And any reluctant BS's, please re-consider.

Full exposure would have had the following benefits, in my case.
. Provided me with a much stronger support system, which I discovered when I trickle-exposed.
. Likely gotten the OW fired, which would have been best since WH's new job transfer has been delayed (though not by him, nor his preference.)
. Ended the secrecy to the A, which made it more romantic/intriguing to WH.
. WH's co-workers to his propensity for workplace flirting.
. Put lots more pressure on WH to wake up and clean up his act, from family and friends who are marriage-supporters.

I even think the fact that WH would have been really livid would have been helpful, like a 2 X 4.

So yes, I wish I had done full exposure immediately. For now, WH and I are together telling friends and family on an individual basis. Purpose is for us both to get support of our marriage, now and in future. And also as a cautionary tale.

Neither he nor OW use FB, so that was never an option for me. I do not have contact info for OW's b.f., so cannot expose A to him. I doubt the OW has been fully honest with him.

For now, we are working w/ Steve. WH still doesn't get the level of hurt he has caused, and so is not fully repentant, but S says that will come. WH is attempting to meet my EN's and I am being more honest about what I need. Will make a world of difference when WH can go NC for real, though.

I am feeling that we will get through this. Sure takes much longer than I originally thought!

Yeah we know catwhit! We were all afraid to expose too. We know that BSs are likewise afraid and why they are afraid. When I exposed I shook like a leaf from start to finish, until all the FB work was done. When I was summoned to go speak to OWs in-laws, the parents of her deceased H, who wanted to know why I exposed on the anniversary of their son's death, I was TERRIFIED.

It's just that I don't believe in making decisions based on fear. I just endured the fear while I ignored it.

The same applied when it came to get into Plan B.

I think it's good that you are counselling with Steve H. What does he say about the need for and timing of Plan B?

Indiegirl: thx for your understanding. I like the idea of not allowing fear to dictate your actions. For me, I didn't recognize the fear as the true heart of my reason until I really examined it in retrospect. The justifications seemed like good "reasons" at the time.

SH has not suggested Plan B so far. I will ask specifically next session... He did say that in this sitch there are practical reasons to the longish final NC, but we haven't discussed this latest extension yet. And he said WH's education is now in SH's hands, not mine. I will post SH's advice after next session.

WH's DS33, D-I-L, grandD2 arrive today for a weeks visit. WH and I will be exposing to them (well, not grandD)...

Great session with SH. He said my focus should be on my recovery, that the plan for WH's recovery is different from mine, as we are in different places in the continuum. His specific advice to me is:
1/ Do whatever makes my "plan A"-ing tolerable, until we can get to NC.
2/ Remember whom I am dealing with - a foggy wayward who cannot yet see clearly, but who is making baby steps in my direction. Like a young child.
3/ Leave the education of WH to Steve. My job is to be caring, but firm on enforcing WH's EP's.

Wonder of wonders....A few days after WH's session with SH, he told me he had completely changed his mind on his responsibility for his A. He sees that though there were unmet EN's in our M, those were only the starting conditions for the A. That he allowed someone else to met those needs was entirely his choice and responsibility. Even a week ago, his belief was that I had been atleast half responsible for his A, since I didn't meet his primary EN's. I am startled at how quickly SH was able to get WH to understand his responsibility. Now we can truly set up EP's going forward.

On another topic, can anyone recommend a thread or profile of a recovered M in which the A was longish (6 months to a year)? WH says he would like to read through a thread which outlines the progress towards recovery of a successful M. He wants to see success stories. Thanks!

Will he listen to radio clips?

Radio clip on a serial cheater trying to recover
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

What closure does he need?
Why on earth does his affair partners boyfriend matter?
He needs to stop having an affair. And you need to KILL this affair.
His affair will continue as long as they have contact with each other.
I suggest you get tested for STD.

BrainHurts;
Yes, he will listen to radio. In fact, I think he might prefer it. He is really starting to "get it", and though will not spend all day every day on MB/relationship stuff, he will devote at least a few hours a day. So I am trying to stream material his way that is pertinent to our sitch. Thanks for the clips... They're perfect!

HDW;
Thanks for your reply. Yes, got STD tested immediately.
In regards to what he needs "closure" on, I have asked him several times that very question. SH suggested it would be okay for WH to write a letter to OW, which will help him to clarify what it is he wants to say. Then I would read it, and then decide if it should be sent. I think that just the very act of writing it could be cathartic enough for him.
Regarding total NC: you are right, of course, there can be no breaking out of the fog for WH as long as he still has daily(!) contact w/ OW. He himself knows this. I am snooping and verifying through others that there is no inappropriate contact, and WH is working to be transparent. It is the best I can do for the remaining weeks.
Looks like OW has gotten herself hooked up with another married man at work. I am just reading between the lines on this, but it is an apparently inappropriate relationship. My WH, of course, can't see it; thinks she is just being "a nice person" to this guy who's wife is half the world away, and they spend most lunch hours together, and OW has helped him decorate his house and garden... But, all this bodes well for no rekindling of my WH's affair...
Will be interesting when my WH finally sees her for who she really is...

Thanks, again, BH and HDW.

I understand how frustrating this can e for you.
I was around my wife during one of her many "break ups" with her boyfriend.

Just remember Steve Harley will help you accomplish what YOU want to do. If you want to stay in plan A forever and deal with your husbands completely irresponsible and immoral behavior then MB will help you.

If you want to kick his cheatin [censored] out and go into plan B he will help you with that too.

Have you read Surviving an Affair? I could understand the wife forgiving the husband that started an emotional affair at the gym; but I felt that Sue was completely ungrateful and that Jon was better off without her.

Dr Harley says that he doesn't get into who deserves to stay married , etc. he helps once the decision has been made.

Have you exposed this to your husbands employer? I don't understand why you allow him to see his affair partner daily. And for him to dare tell you that he needs closure?

When my wife was sobbing over her boyfriend dumping her she told me, You are incapable of understanding that I am suffering a loss!

Dr Harley says we are all programmed for affairs. But I disagree. Part of it is morality. We have a brain with emotional needs but we also have a soul. There are monks that live without having sexual needs fulfilled. We don't need every need fulfilled. There is human choice.


I wish you the best but I think you will only have continued problems as Long as they see each other daily. And I think you will become so stressed over the ct that your husband is seeing a woman that's his lover daily that it will overwhelm you.

Oh and you mention relatives visiting.
You should consider exposing all at once to everyone. Not trickle exposure. Nuclear exposure.
Your husband and his girlfriend will be furious but it is the bet chane at saving your marriage and killin the affair

Catwhit, has this affair been exposed at their workplace?

HDW and MB, thanks for your posts.

Yes, exposed at workplace and that is how WH arranged new position, across the country. New superior also knows all. But since WH and OW are not "actively" in affair behaviour, present superior doesn't understand urgency of WH's departure. Present superior just asked WH if he would consider staying on until end of the year(!!) Fortunately, WH wants out, knows he has to get away to disentangle himself. (Doesn't understand that his daily work environment is awful for me[b][/b] though, since "the affair is over", so I should feel safe now.)

Exposed to WH's DS(33) and DIL while they were visiting! so we could talk to them in person. They were both furious at WH, which really shook him up. DS said there is no way he would ever had accepted OW if WH had left me for her, and that he would make WH's life a living hell. DIL said OW is a real skank, and sadly, WH felt he had to defend her.

Also exposed to all our good friends. No support there for WH.

Can't expose to OW's BF or friends, because I only know his first name, and she doesn't use Facebook.

Apart from being unable to see OW for what she really is, and still romanticizing the A, WH is beginning to "get it" about his responsibility for allowing OW to meet his needs. This is a big corner turned.

I'm glad you realize the importance of getting him away from her and out of that job. So how soon before he can go?

Fantastic job with exposure. I do hope you realise that his reaction (defending OW) shows just how much he is daily danger of the A restarting.

As for his 'getting it' - you do understand the difference between his SAYING he gets it and real insight - don't you?

He's still wayward and waywards don't have insights. They spout whatever makes their lives easier.

When blaming the spouse works, they do that.

Now you have MB support he knows you want a different song.

I'm not saying he can't have genuine insights later on, but right now he enjoys having the best of both worlds and just wants to keep you sweet.

It makes for better cake.

Hi BrainHurts

Yeah, final day in that office is not until August 17. Five months after D-Day. It has been delayed a few times, but this one is carved in stone. Unusual to go so long in this mode (Plan A) but SH says as long as I can tolerate it, it is best course of action for us. His plan for me is that I should do whatever it takes to tolerate it. So far, so good. (AD's help)

IndieGirl

Yes, I am completely sure he is cake-eating. Of course, he doesn't see it that way, does not understand the ego strokes he still gets out of seeing her at the office. He just emailed me that he thinks he is beginning withdrawal (OW is on holidays visiting BF in England) as he is feeling down. Silly wayward... He'll be biting the reality sandwich big time come August 19, as withdrawal will re-start with actual NC.

I do realize the danger of the A resuming during this next 6 weeks. WH is providing good time accountability, so I will really know if there's been a rekindling if that stops, or he begins to act distantly, or snarkily. Plus the snooping, of course, which is pretty much a full time job at this point!

Ironically, the fact that OW has stepped up her relationship with her BF, AND has another married man "just good friend" at the office, is reassuring to me!

Thanks for your advice to take WH's insights with a fist of salt...

[/b] For those who asked:[b] SH reiterated that in our case, Plan B is not recommended except as a strong last resort, as we have no children together. Children/family ties are strong lures which draw WS's back to the family. Without that, if I went in to Plan B, and allowed his A to run its course, WH likely would not return to me when the A died. Since he would have spent the time vilifying me to justify his A, he'd come to believe the vitriol, and without the draw of family/ children, he'd likely rather start another relationship that return and work on the broken marriage.

So SH's advice is for me to remain in Plan A, unless I find it becoming intolerable, until total NC in August.

Daily, WH seems to be re-attaching to me. Of course, we still have NC, withdrawal and recovery ahead of us!

Did you ever check into doing a poly? I would still have that on your agenda.

Catwhit, It's great you have the support of your family and they are willing to hold him accountable/have told him they would not accept OW.

It's a shame his new supervisor does not understand the need to push his job transfer through. It places additional pressure on you, worrying about the A being rekindled due to ongoing contact. He is still foggy given his need to defend OW to DS & DIL. It's interesting OW has already targeted a new AP and/or commenced an A with another married man.

It is great that you are counselling with SH. He will be able to help you while you wait for the August transfer date.

Unwritten;

Yes, I will poly when WH actually gets to new town, mid-August.

I'm satisfied with the details I have about the A, and everything matches up with my snooping and verifying sources. I have no further questions, nagging or otherwise, about the A. These days, my questions to WH are more about his current feelings, for OW and for me. Though I do take indiegirl's point that waywards are not capable of too much insight or awareness.

Counselling with SH is going very well. Most importantly, WH trusts and respects him. SH told me we could probably work through this on our own, but we will avoid many pitfalls, false starts, etc, using a knowledgable coach. For my part, it helps immensely to have a third party managing WH's education/awakening. I have read that BS's should not try to educate their waywards, tempting though it is! And since we have already had this extraordinarily long Plan A, anything I can do to keep the healing momentum going is well worth it.

Happyfuture66:
It is his present supervisor who is causing the delay to WH's transfer. If he had his way, WH would not leave job. But WH is adamant he needs to get away. And new supervisor is aware of sitch, and very pro-marriage, so will be a big sigh of relief when we can get there.


I am doing fine, focusing on the future and avoiding LB's. we are taking off on a 3-week cross-continent motorcycle trip mid-week. Lots of time for great UA, RC, Aff, Conv, SF. Then it will be only two weeks left before total NC, one week of which WH will be out of daily contact with OW, as he will be in the middle of the Sahara. Not counting my chickens before they hatch, though!

ANOTHER BS (me) FINALLY SEES THE LIGHT....Y'all were right. WH could not keep his "just business contact" promise. Only lasted 3 days... He has been continuing EA underground for 5 months, lying and gaslighting the whole time.

Here's the update:

We finally completed move to new state, WH arriving a week ago. He still had a few last items to finish on the old job, which would involve email contact with OW, so we were waiting on final NC letter until that would be done, a few more days. Since D-day 1, WH provided me reports of daily contact, indicating no personal contact. Snooping verified.

Aug. 29 I discovered emails on another address between between WH and OW, proving EA these last 5 months, plus emails all the way to the beginning of the A. I copied all to a file unlocatable by WH. Then I called him at work and said he had to come clean. Of course, he tried to fish around for what I knew, but I said no way, just get home and tell me everything.

He admitted that the A had never ended, that he was powerless to stop. He said he was relieved that I now knew, as the secret second life was too stressful for him. I kept my head throughout the subsequent revelations, avoided LB-ing for the most part. His plan had been to end everything once we got to final NC, and he hoped never to tell me. Of course, the closer he got to NC the more he panicked and kept pressuring OW to run away with him. Right up until an hour before I discovered them. Most of their contact had been in person at work (stairwells, parking lots, UGH!) and via secret cel phone. Oh, yeah, and BH discovered OW has cancer, which only increases his desire to protect her.

WH said he is now ready to end it w/OW and he would write NC letter (which needed a slight modification) and run it by SH, with whom we have been counselling, prior to sending. WH says in his head he knows it would never work with OW, but he is addicted. I tell WH I will help him work on his withdrawal and our recovery, but I will no longer enable his A.

I sent OW an email to her work and personal addresses telling her I knew everything. This starts a series of emails between us.
OW: Never use my work email. It compromises my professionalism.
Me: YOU compromised your professionalism with A with a married client. Unless you mean a different "profession."
OW: I am not a hooker! I am getting a lawyer....

Upon SH 's advice, next day I sent OW an email (YES, to her work...ha,ha) requesting she never contact my husband again. Advise her that I have emails, including nude photos she sent WH, in my possession.
OW: Don't threaten me...
Me: You threaten my marriage...don't contact my husband.
OW goes on an all-night email rampage, deteriorating to calling me and BH names, even threatening my life. These go into the file; I don't reply.

BH desperate to calm and comfort OW. Delays sending NC letter, doesn't want to hurt her. This hurts me terribly! I insist, and he finally sends it. OW emails us both that we are cowards, and to F-off.

Soon I will block OW from emailing me, though I haven't so far because I think her emails will be good evidence if needed. BH has new cell, OW doesn't have the number, and she is blocked from his email addresses, including work.

Next appointment w/ SH not until mid-week next week. I am setting up polygraph.

How do I help WH through his withdrawal when his every instinct is to care for OW's hurt, not mine? I told him that whenever he gets the urge to contact her, he should call, text or email me instead. Any suggestions for allowing - even encouraging - him to vent without it being yet another stab to my heart?

I would draw a line in the sand.
Follow the MB program completely. This means NO exception.
Exposure to the whores family, friends and employer.
No contact.

No exception. This may mean quitting a job, even if President Obama calls your husband on the phone and orders him to work...he places his marriage first.

I'm sorry that you are in this situation. And remember you can leave anytime you want. Don't become a martyr in your marriage! Take care of yourself!