This has been a hard day. I'm having anxiety and sadness in anticipation of my talk with WH and we've been missing each other's calls all day. I started crying at the synagogue this morning and ended up telling several acquaintances that I may not be going to Texas now and the reason why. I then proceeded to cry most of the day.
Went clothes shopping with a friend, that felt good but then cried afterwards when I thought of calling WH.
Got "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" at the library.
Going to play board games at friend's house tonight. Hopefully I won't cry again in front of everyone.
I feel like I'm drowning in sadness.

Crying is ok, crying is brave.

Grieving is letting go, and letting go is brave.

It's a part of the work and you are doing the work of grieving instead of remaining in the palace of denial he keeps trying to tempt you into.

I'm proud of you.

Your situation is not hopeless ... nor is it even over. Plan B will help you here.

I listened to your call. Dr. Harley asked you a question that I want to hear today your answer. What will make this man buyer material for you?

Your WH has/was/is making decisions solely based on independent behavior. As time progresses it is rapidly eroding the love you have for him. His actions still scream IB ... how do you think he views marriage today?

He views marriage today in a "renter" mindset. He will *try* to do and say what pleases me, as long as it's not too important. He still will make independent decisions if it's really important to him.

I just talked to him and I feel terrible. I told him I'm not coming to visit on Tuesday and that we should stop talking soon and I told him why. He was really disappointed but said that he's sorry, he won't take a polygraph or agree to POJA. He thinks POJA will make him miserable because he won't get to do the things he loves. He thinks the polygraph is "degrading." He says he loves me and still wants to be with me but can't do any of these things. Says what happened was "not so bad" and we can get through it. I told him that I wanted to stop talking and seeing each other because it's too painful for me and it will give him time to change his mind about POJA and a polygraph.

I can't stop crying. I kept him on the phone for a while because I just wanted the comfort of talking to him. I want so badly to be with him but I know it's not right for me without POJA or a polygraph. I just wish we could be together. He says he will not divorce me and "give me time to change my mind."

I don't think I can go into plan b right away because I'm not ready to let go yet and never hear his voice again. Maybe I can give it a few more days before completely cutting off contact. Plus I will have 9 days off starting Tuesday for my trip and I can use that time to get things ready and have some time to grieve without working.

I just can't believe this is happening. I thought we would be forever and I can barely stand the idea of never seeing or touching him again, never laughing with him. Is it possible to keep in touch again after Plan B? After a year is through?

I'm going to take a bath now and try to relax. My mind is screaming to call him back and say let's be together but I can't. I feel that part of me is dying.

So he is still saying he will not move to be with you or you move to be with him because he won't POJA this with you?

Am I understanding this correctly?

No, he's saying that he doesn't believe in POJA because it prevents him from doing things he loves. We didn't specifically discuss moving today but in the past he has said that he won't renegotiate where we will live.

Got a text from him saying "I love you chichi and miss you. I hope you will change your mind and not be so strict."

This is going to be a tough night. I have a girlfriend who's going to sleep over.

I'm so sorry (((Hoping))). If he doesn't want to become a buyer and have a marrige it will be difficult for you and lots of pain. Take care of yourself tonight.

Thanks, I don't know what I'd do without the guidance and support of this forum. You are all amazing people who have been through it all.

After we had our talk this evening he finally emailed Dr. Harley. Maybe I should go on my trip?

How do you know this? Did he cc you on the email?

What did his email say? Dr. Harley said if he would email with your WH that he would get a better feel on him. So maybe see what Dr. Harely says. Maybe you should email Dr. Harley back and ask him about the trip and his email?

I would wait and see what Dr H says about the email, or see what your H thinks about meeting your conditions before you go on this trip.

I think this trip could be very bad for your resolve.

Your H uses love and fake words of affection to keep you in line. Though he won't care for you in practice he will speak as though he does care. This is his weapon.

He builds up your lovebank so you feel addicted to him. Just the idea of going cold turkey is bringing you out in a sweat.



He wasn't saying anything comforting. This is your addiction talking, his voice is associated with your needs getting met. Been there. My H said awful things to me after Dday and I still just wanted to hear his voice saying those things! Post-withdrawal you do become free of this spell. Don't think you will spend your whole life craving his voice. It is a hard, but temporary withdrawal.

I think visiting him and getting a hit of your addiction and your needs met for a few days will only make your withdrawal harder.

You sound like you might be doing this already, but you need to start removing the power of his words over you by doing auto-translate of the fog babble:


I will always love myself, not you and I will only love you for what you can do for me.



I don't take your feelings seriously. I don't have to. I'm the big man and caring about the fact I broke my wife's heart is degrading and beneath me.


I want you to serve me and do what I want without requiring any real love from me in return. I like your care for me. Until I get bored of it, that is.



I should be allowed to have affairs. I like them and I don't really care what you think. Not for one second have I considered the pain I put you through. I'm not sure I even believe women have real feelings. One day they're mad and the next day some sweet words smooths it all over. Until the next time.


I love your periods of slavitude where I don't have to consider you at all. Please don't be strict about my loving or caring for you. Because I don't and I won't. I only love what I can get from people before I toss them aside.

Wow -- you're fluent in "fog-babble." At work this morning and feeling a lot better. I feel a huge release over finally telling WH I'm not going on my trip and crying my eyes out. I decided not to go on the trip. You are correct, it is like crack. It would be too emotionally difficult for me and throw me back into a deep depression (not to mention my dependency on WH's sweet lies).

Hoping - I've been reading your thread and just wanted to give you support. Stay strong, it does get better!
Indie - your advice is invaluable. Thanks for all that you do here!

Hoping I do like your attitude. Its not easy I know but I can see you are prepared to lash yourself to the mast so as not to give in to his sirens' song. It is worth waiting for the addiction to pass, I promise you.

Estrela, thank you! We girls in need of Plan B must stick together.

Thanks for the support Estrela and Indie. I don't believe I could have gotten through yesterday without you all holding me accountable and celebrating with each successful step. I also had a sweet girlfriend who stayed the night with me, hugged me when I cried, and did my laundry.
I know I have a long painful road ahead but I am having a good day today and my gut finally tells me I'm doing the right thing for me.

How did you find out about the email?

He CC'ed me the email to Dr. Harley.

Here is the email he sent Dr. Harley. He's truthful except for the part about telling me when he kissed my friend. The friend told me and he begged her not to.


Hello doctor
Hoping has talked to me about writing you. I want to tell you that I love her and she was the reason I came to the US. We are going through a hard time in our relationship. We have been together for 7 years and we have had lots of great moments.

In general I like the policy of joint agreement, but my wife wants me to agree to certain things I don't feel comfortable with or simply I'm not willing to give away. For example, she does not want me to start any kind of business in the future. She also does not want me to have a sailboat. Believe me we have saved some money and there are things that have to come before my own business/ my own sailboat. I just have dreams and things I would like to do in life, I'm willing to negotiate, but not to give away because then only one side would be happy (wife's side).
Another issue we are having is that I cheated on her and now she does not trust me any more. You should know once 4 years ago she cheated on me and I felt bad , but I love her and forgave he with time and some promises of not seeing/talking to that person again I got over that bad moment and trusted her again. This time I cheated on her and I felt bad and sorry. I kissed one night a girl and we both told my wife [NOT TRUE, JUST MY FRIEND TOLD ME]. The other day my wife entered in my emails and face book and read some messages from some girls that I don't see in person. Some of them I don't know and some of them I grew up with. I haven't talked any more with them, BW asked for the password of my email and my facebook and I'm willing to give her that.
She also wants me to take a lie detector test so she can trust me again. I told her I won't do that. The reason I don't want to do that is because I'm not a criminal or a prisoner. I think I would be degrading my self if I do that and I won't do it. I love her, without her my life would not make sense. I have been thinking about going back to my country where I belong. There is my family, friends, culture. Anyways I hope you can help us.

Thanks, WH

I sent WH an email of my "Measures" that I posted with my PBL 2 days ago. He said that he will agree to all of them except for the polygraph. I expected this.

This isn't exactly true though because he doesn't really agree to POJA. If I ask him point blank if he would give up owning a sailboat for other negotiated options because I'm not enthusiastic about it he says no. POJA was on the list, so I think he means he's willing to negotiate, take my opinion into account, but ultimately make the decision independently if it's something important to him.

Just cancelled my plane tickets to Texas to see WH and they gave me credit towards a future flight. I booked a flight with my mom to go to St. Louis instead to visit family in June. I'm excited for my new trip and I love travelling with mom!
WH is always a pain to travel with because he's disorganized and gets crabby.