In a proper Plan B .... accidental wayward sightings should be treated just like an unwanted sighting of an angry wasp. Get away ASAP. Do not engage at all.



ACTUAL PHOTO OF AN ANGRY WAYWARD IN PLAN B!!!!!!

love dat!

indie, recently in another's thread, you posted a "translation" of a wayward conversation (was it starfish?). can you post it here? i think it's important for happy to see it.

Yes it was foolish. I ignored his email

I am not advocating saving the marriage, and I never said Plan B is about winning the spouse back. I simply told the poster how she can work on herself, and if there are things she wants different then to make it happen.

I specifically spoke to Dr. Harley about this, and I think it is even mentioned on my radio show. I told him and Joyce how I lost the weight, got the job, and did what I needed to do to clean up my side of the fence. My preaffair mistakes were discussed & Dr. Harley stated to me, you did the right thing. It was good that I changed what needed to be changed, and it was all I could do. He then went on to say it is likely my WH is not returning due to all the children we have.

I know Plan B is to be in no contact with the WH ... that isn't realistic in some cases. There are those times when both show up to school events, medical issues, and other situations.

I am simply telling this poster my experience with Plan B ... I was told by Dr. Harley what I did was what I was supposed to be doing. She isn't meeting his needs in Plan B ... she won't see him. IF there are things that contributed to her preaffair marriage, then it is recommended (by Dr. Harley) that you clean up your side of the fence.

There is nothing wrong with using plan B to better yourself and hopefully better your marriage. There is nothing wrong with keeping the love for your WH solid in Plan B and still healing. That is the goal towards personal recovery ... to correct what needs correcting, and come to peace with things you cannot control.

Melody ... I find this below comment misleading, when I specifically talked to Dr. Harley, explained to him what I had done, and he told me that he felt I did the best I could. He didn't say anything about it being the wrong choice, or I had done Plan B wrong. He said I did the best I could to save my marriage ... it is what I should have done. Nothing out of context ... those are his words. He also said to me (and you can find in all his books) PA is a very strong EN for my WH, and to be the wife he feels is attractive. Dr. Harley specifically mentioned men can get their love bank filled dramatically when they see an attractive woman.

Hi Indiegirl, thanks for your comments. I've read your post on Starfish's thread and appreciate your comments on mine.

I knew it was wayward babble but part of was beginning to doubt. I posted here because I knew everyone would be honest with their advice and comments. I needed honesty to help me continue standing for my marriage. Deep down I knew the 15yrs was b/s our real history proves otherwise and like I originally posted why relocate family when he had the perfect set up if he didn't love me.

The letter is also another means of justifying his behaviour and sense of entitlement.

happy, i have not received an email from you. i'm off to work now, but will check back later.

Hi Pepperband. I like your wasp, I should print it out and place on the computer or somewhere as a reminder.

I've read many of your posts on various threads and would welcome your advice or comments any time. I think advice from vets like you and Melody is valuable, you also help provide clarity when its needed

PI, you do very much take things out of context and I gave 2 examples above. One is not supposed to be meeting needs or even be concerned about it in Plan B. And maintaining NC most certainly is realistic and you shouldn't be telling newcomers otherwise. We need to help people find ways to maintain darkness, not give them excuses for breaking nc. That helps no one. Please be careful about what you post to newcomers.

Letty sorry I didn't reply to your last email. Took DD6 to bed read him a story etc and I fell asleep! Lack of sleep the night before caught up with me. I will log on and respond.

Melody ... I specifically spoke to Dr. Harley on the phone. Told him everything I was doing in Plan B ... how I did and what I accomplished. From his mouth (not out of context) his words specifically was I did the right thing by cleaning up my side of the fence. I did the right thing using Plan B to better myself. I did the right thing to correct the mistakes of my marriage. I did the best I could to save my marriage. He specifically told me losing the weight and getting the job was the best I could do to save my marriage.

Secondly, I have every right to tell posters how I am doing my Plan B ... the outcome of my Plan B ... how it is working for me.

I never advocated she break no contact, and I will tell anyone who enters Plan B the best you can do is to better yourself, learn from your mistakes, and correct the errors of your ways for yourself, the wayward, divorce, or any other person that comes in your life.

If one sits in Plan B long enough you realize the changes need to come from within. The failings of the pre-affair marriage need to be corrected otherwise if you are to move on you will repeat the same fatal mistakes.

If she wants to save her marriage, there is nothing wrong with her doing self reflection to figure out her failings. I know personally my personal recovery is better because I corrected the failings of my marriage. If my WH walked through those doors today I feel personally well to be a great wife to him. I corrected my mistakes, and I took ownership on my own changes. If I get divorced, then I feel strong and great to be this great wife to possibly another. Plan B is about reflection and for any betrayed to enter and not look at making changes to themselves for the pre-affair marriage is simply doing themselves a disservice.

Dr. Harley agreed 100% with me that making my changes in Plan B were good. They have never been to save my marriage, to get WH to come ... they were simply for me to make right what I had done wrong in my marriage. They benefit my WH greatly, and they benefit me greatly. It is a win/win overall. I am happy I followed this path, and it so far has helped with my personal recovery.

My scheduled plan to send letter to WH and exposure was delayed. My original IM didn't go ahead as planned. This proved to be a blessing in disguise as I have a great MB IM. The time difference in hemispheres resulted in when I received the IM contact details my letter to WH missed the postal collection and sat over the weekend. WH received Tuesday (NZ time) and exposure was to go Wednesday.

I am more determined to expose than ever after reading his foggy email. My original time frame was that exposure would allow time for him to hopefully cool down before DD6 visit with his father.

I understand the value of exposure and the longer an A continues without interference the harder it is to kill. My question is would 4 days make any difference, my dilemma is:

If I expose today DD6 goes tomorrow to stay for 2 nights with WH. My concern is DD6 being exposed to the anger. The last visit I was bad mouthed as WH was angry a caveat had been placed on properties to prevent foreclosure. I was bad mouthed to DD6. Or

Do I expose on Sun afternoon when DD6 is home safe with me. This is 4 days later than planned. The other point to consider is they are leaving 4 days later (birthday trip for OW to Sydney so she can go shipping, staying with MIL & FIL). Would this be better as it would impact their holiday or would it help them escape temporarily.

I plan to contact MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL this weekend to update them on my concerns about WH and his irrational behaviour (this may result in parents finally speaking up) and OW manipulation of grandchildren etc.

Would really appreciate comments as to what everyone thinks is the best thing to do. My instinct is to protect DD6, would 4 days make a huge difference.

4 days is not going to make much of a difference.
What is far more important is how you intend to word the exposure to DD6.

Please paraphrase here what you are planning to say.

It may help evaporate some of your anger to come to MB and practice your exposure speech.

PI, Dr Harley did not tell you to meet your H's needs in Plan B. I have no doubt he felt it was a good idea for your personal improvement to lose weight and get a job, but he did not tell you to do those things to get your husband back.

And let me assure you that you do not have a right to tell people in need on this board that maintaining NC in Plan B is "unrealistic." if you are going help others, you need to stick to MB concepts, period. That is a matter of TOS.

For the 10000x ML I never said anything about meeting his needs. Read my posts they say nothing about meeting his needs. They simply state correct the needs you failed at. It isn't possible to meet the needs with no contact ... some needs are inherent. If one loses a ton of weight, the PA need is dramatically met versus the pre-affair marriage.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said to meet his needs. I said and always stated correct the needs.

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Reporting this to the mods

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Just because it's seen on this board, a lot, doesn't mean that it is part of PB. Whenever it IS seen, it is quickly jumped on with the posters trying to correct it.

And PI, you suggested meeting ENs while in PB. That was from the posts you made. You even mentioned Plan Ains while in Plan B. Plan A is where you MEET ENs and avoid LBs. THAT is what PA is, so suggesting that you Plan A while in PB IS suggesting that you meet ENs. That's not ML putting words into your mouth.

My son had oral surgery last August and my WH wasn't there. I have attended school functions, and sporting events for my children, and WH was not there. If my WH was EVER somewhere where I was, I would LEAVE. That is what is suggested by DrH.

And I agree with DrH that it was good for you to correct things, but NOT with the motivation being ANYTHING to do with your WH.


Happy, I would say that the sooner the exposure gets done, the better. Make sure it is done in a nuclear way, and all at once. No matter when it is carried out, your WH will most likely be angry. People always find excuses NOT to expose. Next week, it could be something else. Just do it ASAP

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A warning to posters to stick to MB principles or refrain from posting. The purpose of this forum is to help posters learn MB concepts, it is not to share conflicting personal philosophies.