You're right, Whodat. A true friend doesn't sugarcoat the truth. But you didn't tell me ONE SINGLE thing that I didn't already know.<P>The ball is INDEED in my court. These are the facts:<P>1. I hate myself<BR>2. Because I hate myself, I probably cannot allow H close to me because I don't feel like I deserve this unconditional love he's pouring on me.<BR>3. Going to the same church is causing me to hate myself everytime I walk in the doors ... I am met with the stares of people I disappointed and/or hurt. <BR>4. My H refuses to switch churches because of our kids (stability and friends there)<BR>5. Because of THIS I have decided to worship during the week at another church, perhaps go to their Sat. night service <BR>6. I will still have to go to church A because H wants us to go "as a family". You know, for the show.<BR>7. I'm also going to attend a bible study class on depression offered by church B.<BR>8. I needed to be honest with H about my feelings ... so I told him I was still unhappy in the marriage, told him I didn't love him like I felt a wife should love her H, and that the only progress I feel I've made over the last year is that I don't want another man. I still, however, want out of the marriage.<BR>9. He asked me what he could do for me. And I told him the only thing he COULD do he WON'T do ... let me go. He said, 'That's not God's will.' <BR>10. And so here I sit.<BR>

Maya:<P>I’d like to respond to this, but I can’t without having something out in the open that resulted in my sending the “stinging” email. Quandry... it’s not my place to post that. If you want me to stop right here, just say so, and I’ll delete this post. If we can continue, here in the open, I need to address that issue.<P>One thing, though...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I hate myself<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You’re not trying to say the unconditional love Christ holds for you is wrong, now are you? And who are you to say your hate is stronger than His love?<P> I had a good teacher. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Touche, my friend.<P>I have trouble accepting God's unconditional love also.<P>I just feel like an unworthy piece of CRAP.

Maya, I'm confused about one thing. Don't take this the wrong way. You said your husband won't "let you go." But really, if it's your choice to leave, what can he do about it? You can decide to pack up today and find your own place, and there's not a damn thing he can do about it. Maya, if you really truly want to leave the marriage and be alone, then you have it in your power to do that.<P>I'm not saying you <B>should</B> do that. But I think you're letting your husband have too much power over your life. You're unconciously letting him decide where you should be. Same thing with the church. If your husband loves you unconditionally, then he should understand that you are too pained by going to your old church. What's he gonna do, tie you up and drag you? <P>(btw, personally I don't think ANYONE at your old church is even remotely thinking about how you "disappointed and hurt" them. If anything, they're probably praying that you'll feel better. But that's entirely your perception, which can only change when you forgive yourself, which you already know...)<P>--andy

The church thing is alittle more ... er ... um ... complicated than one might assume.<P>The problem with H "not letting me go" is the God's will thing. God doesn't want to see marriages broken up, but as a friend once told me it's hard to believe that God would want me to sit here and be miserable either.<P>My H has BIBICIAL grounds to divorce me (yeah, I'm hung up on THE LAW) and I have NO grounds .... if he lets me go then we stay "bibicial" .... of course I can't re-marry ... but who the @#$% cares.<P>That's my hang up, Andy. God. Pleasing Him versus pleasing ME.<P>I'm suppose to "wait on the Lord" ... HOW STINKIN' LONG? What if he chooses not to heal my marriage? He choose not to heal my friend of cancer, even though I asked over and over ... and she died. he can CHOOSE not to heal my marriage.<P>Then do I look at it as my "thorn"? Something I just have to live with because the Bible says NO divorce except for this and this and this ..... <P>I'll be on a bridge in my jammies in another year.

Maya, <BR>Don't be so hard on yourself. I pray that you see that the love your H is displaying for you is the love that God has for you. GOD LOVES YOU and He is using your H. Follow it to its logical conclusion. Thank Him for giving you your H and STOP beating yourself up so badly. ALL OF US DON'T DERSERVE THE KINDNESS THAT GOD SHOWS US.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Maya,<BR>Please don't confuse what you feel or think is right with what God has defined as right. We only seek to have those things that we want. We will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER get to see the utopia that you seek in this part of our lives. That utopia will not happen until the new heaven and new earth are in existence. It is at that time that we will not feel any more pain, sorrow, grief because we will all ne in His presence continually. <P>The pain we experience now is to let us know that everything we have(knowledge, understanding, air, water, food, clothing) all comes from Him. I know it is tough. I go there frequently and cry like a baby when I do. Read my post in the prayer requests section.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Thanks, Rob. <P>God, I know that. I know that none of us are worthy, not one. I just wish I could figure this out ....<P>I guess you can imagine there are salvation issues too. I know it all so well, can talk about it so eloquently, but where is it in my heart, Rob? Why don't I believe it and have faith in it? I KNOW IT'S there for the taking ....<BR>

Maya,<BR>Please don't think I'm needling you, or dismissing your pain. I'm not.<P>But I was wondering, a few weeks ago you were all ready to throw yourself into meeting your families needs and thereby shift the focus from yourself.<P>Did that go badly? Did it make things worse? Or were you too depressed to even really try effectively? <P>One other thing, when you say you want your H to "let you go", how do you envision your life? Would you have the kids or do you see yourself off on your own?<P>Are there any elements of that new life you envision that you can incorporate into this current life?<P>I'm just happy you are talking, don't answer anything you don't want to.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Maya,<P>From where I sit, you still appear to be clinically depressed. How up-to-date are you with your doctor? Are you both monitoring your anti-depression meds?? It's great to "let God" do all the work, but you need to participate too.<P>Another issue here. Have you thought of doing some counseling with Steve Harley? I really think you could use it, and I'd tell you to give it about 5-10 sessions before you bail. I think he could help you gain some control of your life and your marriage, and you might be able to turn things around.<P>I'm always confused at your situation: you have a husband who you've called "terrific", but you want to DIVORCE him. That doesn't make much sense. You're either suffering from a biochemical depression, or there's a lot of stuff in your marriage that you haven't shared. Either way, I think Steve would help you, and it'd be much preferrable to me to be reading here about how well you're doing in 6 months, as opposed to seeing a suicide obit in the paper.<P>Please do it. Don't think about why you don't want to. Just do it.<P>

Hi Maya,<P>I haven't posted to you in awhile but seeing Suse and my friends so worried about you, I couldn't help but express my feelings too.<P>There are sooooo many things I'd want to say to you. Here are the highlights...<P>* You have SUCH wonderful potential as a person, Maya. We sense sooo strongly how much you can love someone. You NEED to be able to express that. Not keep it in. It's the only way you'll be complete as a person.<P>* Hate? Don't hate yourself for what you've done. Hate the behavior, if you must. But leave it in the past. Live your present and your FUTURE as you believe you should. Don't waste your life doing penance for something in the past. The only true recompense is future-oriented.<P>* You say the only answer is to get out of the marriage. Well...I guess I'll be as direct as my friend WhoDat. What will that solve? You might run out of your marriage but you cannot run away from what you've done. You have to accept that as being part of you and move onwards.<P>* You say you feel unworthy of love. Hmmm... lotsa examples in the Bible (both New and Old) about people feeling unloved. And, to a person, didn't they all find love? Find forgiveness? Are you soooooo bad that you're the ONLY person in 5000 years whose done wrong not worthy of forgivness?<P>*WhoDat's right. Maya, this is a struggle within you. Not with your husband, your kids, your minister, even your ex-OM. This is within you. Yup, you know that. You also know that you can't run away from that one.<P>* You've got plenty of people who care for you. Are you so proud that you cannot accept their love and friendship? Isn't that so arrogant? You don't need it, right? You don't want it? Or.... are you just so afraid? <P>* Lastly...and I'll risk saying this...only because there's a chance it may help to see someone post it: Maya, you don't hate men. Nope, that's a convenient substitute for hating the fact that you're not perfect. "Men" are a convenient way to package up what part of you is thought to be a failure. In YOUR eyes! Not ours.<P>*Maya, you've got to get in touch with that. It may be a scary thing, true. But, you really won't be able to move on until you do.<P>* You sometimes say, "God wills it". How do you KNOW what God wills? I wonder if anyone<BR>ever really does. The closest we can get is to do what we think is right. According to what teachings we've learned. You have the chance to do what's right. You have that chance EVERY day. So, why not today?<P>You've got gifts, woman. You've got a purpose on this planet. Don't waste it.<P>Food for thought, I hope.<P>

WHAT?<P>Tell me how I'm confusing what I feel is right with what God feels is right????<P>It's all there .... black and white. My gosh, if I divorced H I'd be going against God's will for my life, there are those that would question if I'm even a CHRISTIAN for blatantly going against what the Bible says is WRONG .... and worst of all I worry that they're right.<P>

Maya,<BR>He is always there to pick up the pieces. Sometimes it is just a little harder to hear Him speak. My W called me just now and the tone in her voice gives me hope. Yet, she still insists on treating me like a room mate. This hurts me the most since she as the first person to truly try to understand me. I told her this the other night. <P>I keep want Him to tell me that she will be truly saved before I die. He has revealed to me that I will die before she truly understands how much He loves her through me. I keep praying that He will tell me that He is going to do it another way. So I only revel in the thought of knowing that she will be truly saved.<P>Your H does not have a hard heart which is the rest of the requirement for him to have grounds for divorce. REJOICE in knowing that your H doesn't have a hard heart. I studied that portion for a long time because when W had first affair I almost divorced her.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited November 09, 1999).]

FHL, in response to your questions ...<P><BR>Did that go badly?<BR>--YES. I found out I can't do it. <P>One other thing, when you say you want your H to "let you go", how do you envision your life? <BR>--Read the "Separated? Let's list the positives" ... it's in everything they say. <P>Would you have the kids or do you see yourself off on your own?<BR>--both<P>Are there any elements of that new life you envision that you can incorporate into this current life?<BR>--No, I don't like being told where to go to church, having to be accountable to someone for my every move, etc. Marriage is being attached at the hip to someone else. I don't like it. I don't like that he can tell me who I can and can't e-mail. I don't like that if I e-mail the "wrong" person I feel guilty cauz I'm suppose to be honest with my H. <P>Stupid. Yes, I know.

Maya,<BR>God gives everyone the opportunity to redeem themselves up to the moment that you die physically. If you were to confess your sins and ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior at your very last breath, you would still go to heaven. I believe that this happened, though not at his last breath, with my grandfather. The moment he died I had this peace overcome me. Shortly thereafter my parents got in contact with me and they told me that he died.<P>I was in a missile capsule at the time. I told my commmander that I could wait until the morning to go home because they were going to send someone out to relieve me so that I could prepare to go home for his funeral.<P>God never leaves us hanging. We do that to ourselves. He is always there and He is always on time. He uses everyone and everything to let you know that He cares for you. WE CARE FOR YOU ON THIS FORUM. YOU ARE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR FOR MANY WHO HAVE COME HERE IN GREAT PAIN. YOU ARE AN INSPIRATION TO US ALL!!!!<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

You're right, Rob. He doesn't have a hard heart. So I'm obligated to stay because HE WANTS ME. Sheesh.<P>And therefore, I'm like a little trophy ... his security blanket. So what if I'm miserable, he knows I won't leave because of my irrational fear of God.<P>Sheesh. What a life to live. I've got sooooooooo much to look forward to, huh?<P>DMac, thanks for all the kind words. I guess you realize that I just don't get it.

Is your H and church into the wife being submissive thing? There is a wide range of interpretations of this and of course I think you have to take your own personalities into account of how you apply biblical standards in keeping with God's will inside your own marriage.<P>So I guess what I am asking, does your marriage, backed up by your church equate submission with allowing a wife to be controlled by her H?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Maya,<P>You seem to be avoiding me.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Are there any elements of that new life you envision that you can incorporate into this current life? --No, I don't like being told where to go to church, having to be accountable to someone for my every move, etc. Marriage is being attached at the hip to someone else. I don't like it. I don't like that he can tell me who I can and can't e-mail. I don't like that if I e-mail the "wrong" person I feel guilty cauz I'm suppose to be honest with my H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If your husband is "enforcing" the above, then you both should IMMEDIATELY go to counseling with Steve Harley. There's lovebusters aplenty here, and you (both) have to learn how to deal with it.<P>If you're convinced that God does not want you to divorce, then do something POSITIVE about your marriage. Please call Steve.

Maya,<BR>I know how it feels to be at those low moments. I feel that my W is there also. I am convinced that she hasn't left for the very same reason. I told her that she would be the unbeliever is she left me. At the time that I said it, I meant it to keep her with me because I needed the security blanket. However, that was with affair #1. I eventually got ot the point where I was comfortable enough to let her go because I love her that much. <P>She hasn't left yet. I know she loves Him. From your post it seems that you are more afraid of Him than the fear that is associated with loving Him. My W has the fear you show in your post for her mother. She loves her mother but is deafly afraid of her in a negative way. She will never admit that because she doesn't see it that way. Her mannerisms say that she is afraid of her mother. Please fear Him in a loving manner rather than being afraid of what He is capable of doing to you.<P>HE LOVES YOU!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

So Rob, you're saying that if your wife left YOU then she's not a Christian?<P>Am I reading that right?