I think I have to agree with K here.<P>Give the marriage a chance, that means counseling with a marriage based counselor. At least you know that you have done all possible to help your marriage. Get on anti-deps (or change them?) to help ease the depression, and if after a year or so you still feel the same about your marriage, then seek divorce. But at least help yourself and try to help your marriage first. Being so unhappy is not productive to anyone, especially your family.

gads ... double post<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited November 10, 1999).]

I stay because I CAN'T divorce him. I don't have Bibicial grounds. I blatantly sin against God ... disobey His word ... if I go ahead and divorce.<P>I want to please God. And yes, I know that this marriage cannot be pleasing to him. But does he want me to stay in the marriage no matter what I'm feeling like because this is who God put me with and marriage is designed for a lifetime?<P>Yes and No ... He wants me to honor this marriage commitment, but do it with the joy of the Lord in my heart -- I guess that's the part I'm having trouble with. I can't have joy because I'm so miserable in the situation.<P>But that's NOT bibicial either ... Paul in prison, John on Patmos ... think THEY were happy about their situation?<P>However, like I said, God can choose NOT to heal this marriage. He chooses not to heal Christians with cancer, kids with deadly diseases .... he can CHOOSE not to heal the marriage.<P>THEN WHAT? What does he expect me to do? Is this my "thorn"?

Maya,<BR>Do you love Jesus? If you love Him, then you don't have to worry about going to heaven. Study His word and let Him speak to you directly. The answers you are looking for are there. I am not putting down your feelings. But, it is important for ALL of us to realize that our feelings are heavily influenced by Satan. God created feelings but Satan uses them to to get us to disobey. We think that because it feels good (our definition of godd not God's definition) that it is the right thing to do. That is what Satab thought when he decided that he was going to overthrow God and kick Him off the throne. That is where he trips us up every time. I know he is working on me now because I told my pastor and our sons that I want my W to leave because she is bleeding me dry with her cold behavior towards me and her insistance on talking with OM nearly everyday. She does it while she is at work on the cell phone she bought.<P>I can relate. But I still feel that you are condemning yourself because of these thoughts that keep popping in your head. Remember those thoughts pop in your head because of the sinful flesh that Satan has a great influence over.<P>HANG IN THERE!!!! I am praying for you and your family everytime I pray. MONDO HUG!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Yes, Rob. I love Jesus, I accept His sacrifice for my sin ... yeah, I know Satan is having a FIELD day with me. He has for a looooooooooong time.<P>So all I have to do is love Jesus, and I can divorce with a clear conscience? Nope.<P>Crap. It's all so hard. It's deep and complex and I'm shallow and simple. I'm a reed in the wind, ya know? I need grounding. Only THEN can I make a decision that I can feel okay about.<P>Correct?

Just out of interest, where does the Bible say it's a sin to divorce? I haven't been to sunday school in a while, but I seem to remember a divorce or two popping up and no one was smitten by lightning or anything.<P>Are there any quotes from the Bible that FLAT OUT say you can't get a divorce?

Maya, <BR>You are not alone in feeling miserable. If I were to focus on the negative aspect of my marriage, I would be saying that God doesn't want me to stay in my marriage. However, the key is to stop focusing on the feelings. Feelings are why we sin. Eve was fooled by Satan because of the feeling of importance. Pride took over because she wanted to be more than what God intended for her to be. <P>The FEELINGS ARE VERY <B>REAL</B>. I know I feel them everyday. I want to be happy but I am not. I do have JOY which supercedes happiness. I focus on doing His will as opposed to obeying Him. The obeying HIm is the result of my desire to do His will which says that I love Him. In loving Him, I love my W, our sons, the entire world and me last. Love is a decision. It starts with loving Him first then everyone else comes into the picture.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Maya, you are correct. Grounding is what you need. Get your focus on Him ALONE. Your posts indicate that YOU are the center of your focus. You are concerned about you getting into heaven rather than just loving Him which results in you getting into heaven. Your pain will go away once yu have your focus securely grounded in Him.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Cristalle1,<BR>NIV<BR>Malachi 2:16<BR> "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself [1] with violence as well as with his<BR> garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Cristelle, Jesus speaks of divorce in the N.T., as does Paul in 1 Cornith. <P>"NO divorce except in a case of unrepentant adultery." (so many on this forum have a case RIGHT THERE)<P>My H choose to "keep" me ...<P>As far as "smitten by lightning" ... how many spouses that are in adultery right now are NOT being struck down by ligntning? God gives us free will to choose our path ... follow Him or follow our own desires.<P>The "smittening" comes at judgement day.

Maya,<BR>I feel your pain and am praying that Jesus will step in a let you know that He cares deeply for you. Please stop beating yourself up. Please forgive yourself. I am reading the following booklet I got from RBC Ministries <A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb941/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb941/</A> <P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited November 10, 1999).]

Ok, fair enough. <P>I don't want to denigrate anyone's religion, but I don't think God wants any of to stay in a miserable situation just because of something Jesus may or may not have said 2000 years ago.<P>One of your remarks really caught my eye. Your H "chooses to keep you"?? What are you, a possession? <P>And about the "no divorce unless unrepentant adultery", does the Bible qualify that by saying that only the betrayed can make the decision to divorce? Seems like a statement like that could be turned around to mean that either side could initiate divorce in case of adultery, if you want to get semantic about it.<P>I don't mean to sound flip or insult your religion, but it seems to me that so many of these quotations are so ambiguous that they get subjectively processed by the believer. The way I see it, you could interpret those quotations to mean almost anything.<P>

Maya,<BR>Are you on meds now?<P>Have you talked to a doctor recently?<P>You may have a spiritual problem, you certainly have relationship problems, but the underlying problem that is rendering you unable to address any of your problems could be depression.<P>You would fight more tangible illness, like cancer, head on. <P>If you want to really be there, like you said, for your girls...if you want to be in a place where you can develop spiritually and make good decisions about your future through strength rather than despair, then get to the root of your problem medically and fight as hard as you can to get to where you want to be.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Cristalle1,<BR>God wants us to LOVE Him. The utopia (continual happiness) that you elude to doesn't occur until Satan will have no more effect on the world. The world will be TOTALLY in tune with God and there will be no more pain, suffering, getting old, unhappiness then.<P>The key to interpreting scripture is with other scripture that supports the verse you are studying. The moment you allow your feelings and wishes enter into the picture then thew Word is taken out of context which is why there is such confusion in the world today. It basically boils down to allowing God to control your life or Satan controlling your life. One ends with peace and joy eternal, the other ends in agony and suffering eternal which is eternal separation from God. God is love.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited November 10, 1999).]

Hi Professorg<P>I don't refer to continual happiness -- in this life or in any other. All I was saying is that I don't think God wants us to be miserable being married, and that it's not all some preordained thing he set up for us -- to meet, marry and be miserable with someone until the day of judgement.<P>How can THAT be part of his plan? I don't want to start some long-running theological debate on the subject, but that would be a pretty sick joke if God just laid everything out for us and expected us to swallow whatever came our way. Is there no free will?

Cristalle1,<BR>No where have I found in the Bible that it says that doing His will results in comfort in this part of life. It does say that if you do His will the world will hate you and persecute you. In China Christians are persecuted by being thrown in jail and tortured. The world is of Satan the father of all lies. I have found that the closer I get to God the more I am finding that it is less pleasant when thought of in terms of worldly definitions. The definitions that you use are of the world which makes it difficult for you to see what being a believer is. <P>MONDO HUG. Forgive me if I am coming across to strong. I just am very passionate for what God stands for because of what He has done for me.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Cristelle .... the EXACT things you say are some of the reasons I'm so stinkin' screwed up right now. Things in the Bible can be intrepreted in many ways. Sometimes people interpret them to suit their own needs, sometimes they just read one part of a scripture and take it out of context, sometimes a pastor says that "this" meant "this" back then, but means "this" now. (or doesn't even apply)<P>So you can SEE my confusion. We've got various demononations quoting from the SAME Bible saying very different things ... AND I WANNA KNOW WHO'S RIGHT AND WHO'S WRONG.<BR>

Thanks for your comments, professorg. I respect that.<P>Maya, I can see why you're so confused. That's why I think you have to make up your own mind on the subject. Unfortunately, no one is going to come down and give you the final word on the issue.<P>I do however agree with the others who have pointed out that you may be depressed. Perhaps if you get help for this, i.e. counselling, the other questions and confusions will clear up.<P>

Maya,<BR>The key is not to rely on what comes out of a human beings mouth or what they type. You have to rely on the Holy Spirit to help you with the interpretation. Read the word so that God can speak to you. Study all the scripture that is centered around the topic and then you will have the complete picture. I have always been one to go an cerify what someone says rather than just blindly follow anyone. The only one I follow is God and I even check up on Him because I know He doesn't give me the entire picture the first time. It is the subsequent times that I go back to Him that He reveals a little more of the picture.<P>PRAY, STUDY. HE will give you the answers that you seek.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING ROB.<P>Am I "suffering" for the cause? Am I suppose to suffer for the cause by staying in a miserable situation? And is that FAIR to my H, who deserves someone that is as crazy in love with him as he is with them? <BR>