Hey, JB!

Great work. I am truly impressed.

[quote] being honest with my wife has been pretty easy. being honest about my feelings seems to be the challenge that i am working on every day. [\quote]

To me, these are the SAME things. You AREN'T honest with your wife unless you're being emotionally honest, too. If you aren't telling her what you feel, you are NOT being Open and Honest, and you're starting to build a secret inner life. And then it's easier and easier to lie about bigger things.

So be honest. If you're disappointed, tell her. Just don't do it in a Love Busting way. Calm, reasonable and open to discussion. This time around, you want to get your needs met, too. And that requires you telling her what you want and need as well.

And tracking UA time: great! Planning romantic outings: great! But don't think it has to be a grand gesture every day. That would wear us all out.

I know if my FWH said to me even once a week: Sweet Pea, I'm so grateful you are my wife and you have given me a chance to prove my true devotion. ... Well, I'd be in HEAVEN!

Cheers,
SP

For some reason, waywards like to make it a big drama, something more than it is.... When we get honest, we feel very foolish starring at the simplicity of our self deception.....




Good...

Just remember to follow the instructions.


I really hope you start scheduling it!

Making sure that you are scheduling time that meets both you and your wife's number one and number two top EN's.

That includes scheduling SF in there. When it's scheduled you'll have little to no chance of being rejected, because you've agreed to a reasonable schedule ahead of time.

OK!


You can't change a behavior if you are UN-AWARE you are doing it....

So now that you are aware of this behavior, whatcha gonna do differently?



Thanks for getting back to all my questions.

I know this stuff can drain you, now you have a small taste of what your wife has been living with daily....

I'm sure she is grateful for your changes, but I'm just as sure that she is exhausted x10....

Let me know how the RC Inventory goes...

??

How'd the RC inventory go??

Are you scheduling your UA again??

i havent written back because we did our RC and i dont know what to do with it.

RC was always an issue, i used to give three options of things to do (inside, outside, one active) none of them seemed interesting to her and we usually ended up doing nothing. if i asked what she wanted to it was usually i dont know. it was frustrating and eventually i gave up and did my own thing. Sounds ridiculously familiar to the sex issue. My problem is withdrawl. the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a diferent result. the problem was not knowing what to do.

so we give the numbers to the activities and what it comes out is alot of oddball activities. we are working on picking some new activities to do. we havent yet been successful. but i am determined to make something work. (spearfishing and archery got 4s). i think she likes the idea of the physical activities. not the actual doing.

on a more serious issue. my son is back in town(son 26yrs old from the OW). my wife who encouraged me to have the relationship with my son because of her own broken family issues now is in conflict with the fact that my son will have ties to the OW. she says she could never tell me not to see my son but at the same time is now a trigger. "Is the ow dropping him off? etc.?" this is a big issue and i have pretty much stopped communicating with him to avoid triggering my wife. and i think he feels there are issues and is not trying to contact me. he has spoken to my other family members and even my wife. Maybe he is just disappointed in me in general with everything that has happened.

i feel overly sensitive and blundering through life rather than controling my destiny "bull by the horns" so to speak. i second guess things. i feel out of my skin. i want to make things better. i hit road blocks with things i created myself not things thrown at me. (i could ahave handled the things thrown at me.) i am disappointed with who i am. i expected more from myself. i expected to give more back. instead i took things away.

This is the kind of attitude that will help you, Jerkyboy.

My FWH and I spend a lot of our RC time walking our dog. It's quiet, it's healthy and it's easy. Sometimes we're chatterboxes; sometimes we're both kind of quiet. Sometimes the dog makes us laugh. But we have done A LOT of talking, laughing and hand-holding during those walks.

Give it a try. The fall is gorgeous for walking. We go almost nightly and at least once each day on the weekends. Even a 20-minute walk does wonders.

(And now that it's dark so early, we wear reflective vests and carry flashlights. We both feel better if we make the effort to do something healthy for our bodies and our relationships!)

JB, you can have no contact with OW. I won't waste time addressing that. It is what it is.

As far as UA time, try this: both of you make a list of ten things you would like to do. Compare notes. Take the five you agree on, write them down and throw them in a jar. Agree to pull one of them out and DO THAT ACTIVITY.

Post this on the Weekend Forum to Dr. Harley....

There is a sub-heading on RC and it's a great place to ask for his thoughts.



Look, for twelve years you've allowed youself an out (affairs) if you didn't get what you wanted, the way you wanted it!

You're going to have to stop acting like you gave it your all for the last twelve years....
Because you didn't!

Do you see how this paragraph is riddled full of subtle DJ's about your wife?.... You've gotta stop that!

Let's get your eyes forward focused, rather than rear view mirror paralyzed...



Again, do you see the DJ's in there.....

Choose the highest ranked items and try including one or two of them in the plans YOU make, for the 15+ hrs of UA time, that you're scheduling every week. (You are scheduling again, right?)


Have you been 100% honest with your son about your years of lies and adultery? Have you written out and explained the rules of engagement with him??
If you haven't, then fix this and be his father! It's really that simple!!

BTW, You've stopped because it's become inconvenient.
Is this a pattern of yours?


Welcome to recovering from twelve years of living a deceitful life..... It's not gonna feel all warm and fuzzy JB, it's gonna take a great deal of practice and time.

Jerky: Listen to Marital and PapaBear. They are awesome and are giving you excellent advice!

How's it going JB??

hey
RA - we are leaving for bermuda tomorrow for my wifes b day. and we are working on our RA's

it is still difficult to come up with something for our RA's but we are working on it.

ISSUES
guilt, betrayal it is always there. every day. how do you every get past the gorilla. a triggers, a cocktail, it always comes around.

You need to be much more specific....

What is your gorilla?

What specifically are you struggling with in regards to a triggers?

What is an a cocktail?

i hate the gorilla.

i'm exhausted, i know i'm the bad guy. I am following the mb plan and beyond. but the gorilla that we cant get past is the guilt for me and the betrayal my wife feels. I hate the gorilla.

I am sad if she is sad i am happy when she is happy.

Triggers. there is always something. as soon as everything is going great there is a trigger. its insane. crushing. heartbreaking. hurtful. painful. distance building. headache giving. dont want to eat. eat to much. all consuming. i see the pain in my wife and it is like a sledgehammer to the back of my head.

i think i said this before but, seeing my wife hurt is horrible. knowing i caused it, rips out my heart

i know she is thinking either stop the triggers or let her go and walk away because the pain will stop if i leave. it will hurt in the beginning but then it will be over and no more triggers. if i am there then there will always be triggers.
i am the cause of her continued pain. gorilla.

i want to start building our lives. it always seems within reach and that gorilla comes in our lives with his gun and pulls that trigger. BANG and i gave him the bullets.

i hate the gorilla

some triggers i cant control. some i can.
i try to get rid of all the things that could trigger my wife.

BUT.....

today in a calandar in outlook i saw a birthday for O.W. I deleted, O&H i tell her. and send her the calander and another O.W. birthday is on there. BANG BANG what an idiot.

EP i probably deleted the event and not the series. it doesnt really matter. i faulted on my EP. bang

the name of the OW was on the calander but not on the list of OW that i gave my wife during D DAY. The OW was on the list as an event not the name. i didnt remember the name at the time (no excuse, no trust, i'm a liar) but i never called anyone by thier name, it made it easy not to mix things up and easier to walk away if things got slightly emotional.

i think i would rather be called the liar when i have it all written out like this. rather than someone one didnt care about anything or anyone.

gorilla just smacked me upside the head. the guilt is horrible when you write it out. i never really saw the extent of the carelessness of others until i stepped back.

im soo tired. i know my wife is too. i feel if it was just the two of us with no outside triggers we could move ahead. bang something happens.

i hate the gorilla.

i get the fact that its easy to go through life when its easy its how we handle the hard stuff that defines us. but my gorilla is big and he is angry.

TRIGGERs -
locations (i dont go certain places),
my son-26yrs OW (i curb my contact),
specific dates, holidays(if i could change the calander i would)
work events(i dont do any more),
cell phones, emails, (new phone number and share email w/wife)songs (if i have music on it doesnt have words),
movies, TV (i dont watch TV or movies anymore, there is always, always, something)

it seems that there is always going to be something. how do you fight the gorilla?

i hate the gorilla

It sounds like you're making a valiant effort, but just keep stepping in it

Why don't you go over the list of triggers with your wife and see what you guys can come up with. There are probably some that you haven't thought of as well. I don't know, maybe rank them in order of bad to worse and tackle the "worse" ones first.

The technology (cell, emails, music) seems easy enough to handle, and the locations could be handled by moving, but I guess it's your son and his mother that are the big one.

I looked for the gorilla and the gorilla was me!

You can do this. Regardless of how you feel, you are capable of protecting your wife, being honest with her, spending time with her, and expressing care for her. With encouragement from us here who have done it, you can keep at it even when you feel demotivated.

You will discover that feelings do follow actions. Taking right actions, keeping your emotions in check and sticking to the plan, will set up the environment that will change all the emotions in your marriage.

And when you've provided the compensation that you can, for longer than you thought possible, better than you thought possible ... you will discover that you do not feel as guilty.


I question whether you should be trying to get past your wife's feelings.

Marriage Builders is pretty much never about getting past your wife's feelings, no matter what they are.

And I stand with HerPapaBear: I found out I was the gorilla, too. That explained a lot about my wife's feelings.

Hey JB,

What's up?

Sup?

Things are going well with recovery. MB class, marriage counselor 2x per week, 40 hrs per week of time together, constant communication (call, text email) during the day, do everything together, transparency, full access to my phone, email, location, computer at work, open and honest, full disclosure, I avoid geographical locations, no work functions that take place after 5:00.

It is actually pretty easy.

The part that is difficult-

1) We have a notebook that my wife writes down questions and I answer them. The questions are about the other women. It is as painful to give as it is to hear. Thus the notebook. But it does leave room for miscommunication, but it�s what works best at this time. I gave all the information. There is nothing else. She doesn�t believe me and wants all the details. I understand because I did the trickle truth thing, but I got nothing else. She wants the gory details and I don�t feel comfortable with it, but this is what she wants. I don�t see how this will help, but it is important to her in order to move ahead. So I am working on it. I don�t know where the line is with this? i dont know what she wants. Help.

2) I tend to avoid friends and family because she gets very upset if I forget to tell her if I spoke to someone. It�s basically not worth the risk. Also they always ask to get together, and this doesn�t work in our new life together, so again it�s easier to just avoid them. We are a couple and we will do things together under POJA or we don�t do it.

3) We really haven�t worked the sex thing out. We are very close, we do romantic things, we talk, do nice things, hold hands but�I haven�t figured it out.

This past week we spoke about when we first met that my wife was like a dog with a bone and didn�t let go. I was more focused on school - job etc. When sex came off the table I ignored her. This set a tone. Although now this seems like a typical rookie mistake, I understand what I did. I am working very hard to show her that she is my world and that I love her very much.

p.s. I am killing my inner gorilla.

This isn't that hard JB, you answer her questions no matter what. You don't question her motive, you just answer her. Keep it simple, OK.

The best analogy I can think of is that you are expecting your wife to walk down a railroad track and asking her to never look back to see if a train is a comin'...... She has been hit by so many trains as a result of your serial adultery, coupled with your trickle truths, that you need to give her a great deal of grace regarding her need to know all of the peices of her life with you....
Read Josephs Letter again, it can be found in the notable posts!

If your wife requests everything about the A why wouldn't you want to do that for her?

Dr. Harley says all the details should be put out on the table and then to never discuss it again. That is IF everything has been put out on the table.

She will recover better if you would tell her everything she wants to hear.

Also to add to what Herpapabear said.

Here it is Joseph's Letter