I'd like to say no, of course he's not wayward. Who ever knows, though? I was referred to this attorney by a close friend after consulting with 2 others. He has seemed very knowledgeable, level headed, and reasonable. Also much more fair and honest, less snakelike than some. One of the other 2 said filing on grounds of adultery was not a good idea either, because you have to prove it if you say it, it turns into a big ugly expensive nightmare, and you don't need it. You don't need grounds, so it's not necessary.

If it comes to that, I guess I'll work on it. Today, I don't care honestly. Sorry for the apathy. Maybe it's the no sleep for 3 nights in a row. Think I'm gonna turn in. Thank you all.

I don't think any of us are confused...just difference of opinion as well as having witnessed too many times how this turns out for a BS. At the very least you should go into Plan B. I personally would go with Plan D. For me, no amount of money would have kept me married to exWH; I'd go back to work if I had to and will have to eventually. Too much damage and I'd have to lie to myself to stay.

If OW lives far away and you divorce, is it more likely OW would pressure WH to move to her state? If so, your children would have limited contact with him even if WH was awarded joint custody and she likely doesn't want your kids around. Would she want to go to UT? Her BH could stop her from leaving the state with his children..he may put up with some things now but could put his foot down later. Even if OW did take her children...WH doesn't even bother with his own kids. I doubt he'd want to put up with much from hers lol. I happen to think APs will make each other miserable...the dishonesty and having to trust a cheater...well good luck with that. Letting the APs have each other is some times the best reality fix, A breaker, and karma bus all built into one.

Proving the infidelity under the circumstances isn't much of an issue. WH has taken trips and there will be record of their lodging...doubt separate rooms. And since WH is bragging about it plus so many people know, I don't think you have much to worry about there. Plus you have abandonment and I think UT has some other faults that can be cited in your case. UT is still very conservative...plenty of your WH's friends, co-workerss may think he's a lowlife but don't say so to his face...typical. I would not be scared off by what others say. I see many things going for you but you are the one who has to live with the outcome and roll the dice. You may feel differently once you are in Plan B...idk.

Anyway...cue the Small World music...

A former Utahn here. Lived there for several years and loved it!!! Miss pastrami laden crown burgers and the Red Iguana.

Thanks. I'm taking a couple of days to ponder on what the best decision is - Plan B or D. One or the other, though. I agree that hopefully they will make each other miserable. I wish he would move to where she is. In fact, I asked him to go there. That would make Plan B easy, and life far easier for my kids and me. Funny, he doesn't seem to REALLY want to do real life with her for some reason . . .

That's usually a moot point. Plan B is to protect you, whether D happens or not.

I told him if he brings her here, I'll leave. So did the kids. I hope he would go there, but she is from here and this is where his job is. I told him we won't live in the same state with her. I think he knows I can make his life hell if he tries to do that. I'm done being nice.

Yes, I would LOVE to see him trying to deal with her "amazing kids" on a regular basis. He can't handle his own. I just wish her BH wasn't so helpful. I do think he will fight her on custody if it comes down to that, but not sure. Who knows? I just think some reality needs to sink into this clandestine mess; I don't think it will last long once it does.

Divorce hurts less in Plan B.

Many Plan Bers are also advised to divorce for financial reasons even when not ready to file: they can always remarry or spin it out so it takes longer.

I would assume, without ever having gone into Plan B or Plan D myself, that you would have a much more difficult time 'moving on' in Plan B. Now I know there are a lot of Plan B'ers out there that are self focused and doing great. But they are, at the end of the day, still MARRIED to a spouse who is with an AP. As opposed to going through with Plan D and being free to move on. I don't mean to move on with other men, I mean to be able to emotional/mentally move on from being MARRIED and involved in the A. If you are in Plan B to some extent you are still involved. So if you stay in Plan B vs filing for D for the kids to have more support, at the end of the day is there a further cost to you to continue being in this situation, even without any contact with your WH? It has been going on for so long, personally I would want to be done and move on.

I know that many Plan B'ers are still willing to accept their remorseful WS's back if/when they commit to reconciling, but I also know due to the length of your situation you have been advised by some of the great vets to Plan D. So I just thought I would throw this out there as a reason for you to look at Plan D vs just a longterm Plan B, because you seem to have the opinion that they are one in the same and you just get more money in Plan B because its not official. I feel like there would still be a continued emotional cost to you. But Plan B'ers would know more than I, maybe I am wrong and you can emotionally move on in Plan B.

I don't think you completely understand Plan B, unwritten. There are many Plan B'ers here who have moved on. As an example, MelodyLane has Plan B'ed her ex husband and has moved on just great!

I think maybe you think Plan B means "stay married"?

I guess I need to do Plan B, period. I still have time to decide on the D. I kind of think WH will try to push it through, which is fine, because as I said in an earlier post I'd kind of like that - him having to own it. Part of his wayward babble is that I have made every decision in our marriage, run his whole life, etc. (He projects psycho controlling OW onto me, I think). He prefers to sit back and then blame other people for where his life does/doesn't go rather than taking responsibility for his own behavior.

She is pushing him to D big time, so let him blame her. That would create a nice dynamic for them:) He's actually found the most controlling woman on the planet that he's been looking for. That'll be eye opening when he comes out of wayward fog. (The most bizarre thing is that he totally realized that when he was briefly in recovery - weird. Now he's completely forgotten again).

If he doesn't, and things do not change, I will do the D myself when I am ready. I think it will be easier to think clearly and go through with the D emotionally if I need to, once I am in Plan B.

It helps to hear the thoughts and opinions of others, so thank you all.

You are right Markos. I guess I thought of Plan B as stay married, but in the dark with no contact for your own emotional benefit of staying out of the drama, yet being ready for reconciliation if your WS decides they are ready to leave their AP and work the MB plan. But I do know there are people in Plan B that have filed for D. Oh and I guess I have read one thread where someone was still in the dark after D but figured after that you are just divorced and moved on from the whole mess.

I just think Married (Plan B or not) is still 'invested'.

I thought MelodyLane's M was recovered? Guess I don't know her story but I thought that was in her sig.

I do agree that married Plan B is still "invested." I would still be willing to work on our marriage if he got his act together. I may give that just a bit more time, as I have not tried Plan B in all of this, before I go to D as well.

I never thought these 2 would actually end up marrying, but maybe they will. My MIL is a serial cheater, whose last marriage (#4) was the example of perfect bliss. Now, that is. When she cheated on and left my FIL 20 years ago, my WH actually did not think it was so awesome. Her AP was never allowed in our home. But now that her OM has been dead for 10 years, my WH has seen the light - that his mother set a wonderful example of the importance of finding your own happiness. (Personally I think the guy simply passed on before she could cheat on him too - I doubt it was going to last forever. AP are just a little harder to come by when you reach 80 years old). OW has a similar amazing example in her grandmother. Family legacy of adultery/afffairs/affairages on both sides.

My WH and OW are only mid 40s, kids still around, etc. So I really think when reality begins to hit this thing, it's going down. Maybe they'll hold on longer than I think. But I do lean toward trying Plan B without D for a bit, just to see if pulling everything else away so he's left with only her starts to make a difference. It might. When he ended it the first time he told me, "I really hope you don't divorce me. Even if you do, I want you to know that I have no desire or intention to marry OW. I've seen too much of who she is." Yeah. Well, that's still who she is.

and you 'think he will try to push through'

guess what?

The cool thing about going to a Plan B....you rely on yourself and become self contained and realize you do not have to be 'gun shy' about what others do or don't do and no longer are responsible for their choices of pushing through, not pushing through, deciding to save the marriage or not.

You are responsible for your conduct only.

It is freeing.

You will still be sad if your H stays WH. You won't be responsible for it though.

You release the ropes.

HTMS

I agree. I guess his behavior is irrelevant to me now. I just do what I think is best for me and my kids, on my own timetable.

Rainy, you are letting a WS drive the bus with that sort of thinking. If you weren't dealing with a 3+ yr affair I might see things a little different but this has been going on for a long, long time. A WS will blame a BS no matter who files first, what a BS say/does, rewrite/ignore history and reality simply because he is wayward and you are causing problems with his affair and cake eating. It is typical for WS to complain the BS was controlling and made every decision, blah, blah, blah....your WH is no different. Your WH is all talk as most are. If he wanted to be divorced or with OP so dang bad, he'd file. He's a coward no matter how you slice it. If I hadn't filed (and other BSs too), my ex never would have filed. And yes I'm sure he blames me for 1000 things too. You can't win with a wayward...no one can.


I hope so. I don't mean to harp but I would hate to see you suffer more than you already have and keep living in limbo.

True, BR.

Riiiiiiiiiiight and months/years later here you are. Plan B and get to a good place.

Agree.

Why are we talking about lawyers, OW, what WH says, etc?

You need to get into Plan B pronto. The plan D/lawyer stuff can be dealt with later.

You have a willing IM that can do the job until your friend decides, that shouldn't hold you up, rainy. Just so that you know, you are very lucky to have an experienced MBer willing to do this for you. I have seen many posters begging someone here to help them be their IM with no response.

It took me about a week to go into Plan B from my dday, a few days from the day I decided to do it. I am worried about more stalling here, rainy... I hope that I am wrong.

You should get a lawyer and you want your WH to know from your lawyer that you will fight him on that. He will use this as leverage if he thinks it will scare you. Sure, the infidelity may not factor into it, but you admitted that he has been horrible to the kids and he has abandoned them. (I hope you have been documenting his parenting since he has moved out!)

In my mind, since I know STBX's true intentions aren't really wanting the kids with him 50% of the time that he wouldn't be willing to spend the $$ to fight me over it. The money to fight for my kids doesn't matter to me. That's the difference. I made d@mn sure that it was known that was a battle I would fight to the bitter end. I told my lawyer that was my hill to die on, and she told STBX's lawyer "it's off the table, not up for discussion, period". Yes, he tried threatening me with that but he backed down when he saw I was dead serious.

I don't know if I am misunderstanding that you don't think D is necessary since you two have some type of agreement regarding CS and $$. Just so that you know he can and will probably financially screw with you unless you are legally protected.

But again, go into Plan B FIRST and then deal with the rest of it later...

Melodylane's marriage is recovered. Markos is talking about her second WH is whom she Plan B'd and "moved on" thus her now recovered M with now FWH.