Dr H recommends the BH contact the OM and make it clear he does want the marriage and will fight for it.
...and in my case, I actually got him to cry!

Because often the BS is equally responsible for the poor state of the marriage. On the other hand, we have affairs that occur in marriages where all the needs are being met.

Did you hear the part where Dr Harley recommends confronting the OP?

Even if they are equally responsible for the poor state of the marriage can the A still be the "fault" of the BS?

MelodyLane: Let me add something to what I have already written to you. I hope I'm not being too redundant.

You will hear Joyce and I repeat, "there are reasons but no excuses." One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage, which makes an affair that meets those needs more tempting. But the same thing can be said of some who rob banks. They may be out of work, need money to pay the rent, ask for a loan but are refused by the bank, which makes robbing it more tempting. One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. On hindsight, a bank might have helped the robber get the help he needed through social services, but the bank is under no obligation to do so, even though they advertise that it is a "caring bank."

An affair is different from robbing banks in that a couple have promised to be more caring than banks. But the principle is the same. The lack of care by one spouse does not excuse harmful behavior by the other spouse. Even when one spouse absolutely refuses to be affectionate, or to make love, or to talk intimately, or to join in recreational activities with the other spouse, it gives them no right to have those needs met by someone else of the opposite sex in an affair. They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation (there are many who strongly disagree with me on that point). But an affair is so cruel and so painful that nothing any one spouse does (including having an affair themselves) can justify the suffering that an affair causes.

Making a disgraceful act more tempting by someone is no excuse for that person committing the disgraceful act. Besides, in most marriages, there are times when emotional needs are not being met for reasons beyond anyone's control. That's why I recommend extraordinary precautions to help spouses avoid an affair. They are to not allow anyone of the opposite sex to meet their need for affection, or intimate conversation, or recreational companionship, or sexual fulfillment. When those needs are met, they deposit so many love units that you are likely to fall in love with that person, and make you hurt your spouse in the worst way possible. I hope that explanation helps.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939731#Post1939731

The affault of the affair is 100% on the WS. Both spouses share equally in the state of the marriage but it was the WS who went outside the boundaries of marriage rather than communicating with the BS their un-happiness. May WS's use the fact that their spouse wasn't meeting their needs as an excuse to have an affair. That is blame-shifting. The WS needs to realize and accept that the A was their fault, not their spouse's.

For example, I was very lonely in my marriage as my husband was not meeting my needs but that doesn't give me a right to have an affair. Does that make sense?

You were correct in taking responsibilty for your part in making the marriage unhappy, as does your wife. Your WS also needs to own the resposibilty for the affair solely.

Hi Dr. Harley, there is some confusion about your comment on pg 75 of Surviving an Affair and I wondered if you could clarify for my understanding:


Quote:
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Pg 75

How could I expect Jon to avoid burning his bridges after Sue had behaved so thoughtlessly? I offered him four reasons to try a plan that would give his marriage a chance to recover.

1. JOHN WAS PARTLY RESPOSIBLE FOR SUE'S AFFAIR. John knew, deep down inside, that his career choices had a great deal to do with Sue's affair. His work schedule prevented him from meeting her emotional needs, and it made her vulnerable to Greg's attention.


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However, we have been commonly taught, and have heard you mention on the radio show that the WS is always responsible for the affair, but often both the BS and WS are responsible for the state of the marriage that led to the affair? Is it possible for the BS for be responsible for the affair, a choice she/he never made?

Could you please clarify for our understanding? Thanks!

MelodyLane: While there are no excuses for an affair, there are often reasons. And most people who have affairs will usually express those reasons as the BS's failure to meet intimate emotional needs. My book, "His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage," describes those reasons and encourages couples to meet each other's emotional needs as a way of making affairs less tempting.

However, my book, "Surviving an Affair," focuses attention on eliminating temptation entirely by taking extraordinary precautions to avoid one of the most destructive and cruel acts that can be committed in marriage. While it's true that affairs are often more tempting when intimate emotional needs are not being met, there's no excuse for them, because they are so painful. So in recovery, we encourage couples to take extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair, even when emotional needs are not being met. But then, we also encourage couples to meet those needs.

MelodyLane: Let me add something to what I have already written to you. I hope I'm not being too redundant.

You will hear Joyce and I repeat, "there are reasons but no excuses." One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage, which makes an affair that meets those needs more tempting. But the same thing can be said of some who rob banks. They may be out of work, need money to pay the rent, ask for a loan but are refused by the bank, which makes robbing it more tempting. One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. On hindsight, a bank might have helped the robber get the help he needed through social services, but the bank is under no obligation to do so, even though they advertise that it is a "caring bank."

An affair is different from robbing banks in that a couple have promised to be more caring than banks. But the principle is the same. The lack of care by one spouse does not excuse harmful behavior by the other spouse. Even when one spouse absolutely refuses to be affectionate, or to make love, or to talk intimately, or to join in recreational activities with the other spouse, it gives them no right to have those needs met by someone else of the opposite sex in an affair. They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation (there are many who strongly disagree with me on that point). But an affair is so cruel and so painful that nothing any one spouse does (including having an affair themselves) can justify the suffering that an affair causes.

Making a disgraceful act more tempting by someone is no excuse for that person committing the disgraceful act. Besides, in most marriages, there are times when emotional needs are not being met for reasons beyond anyone's control. That's why I recommend extraordinary precautions to help spouses avoid an affair. They are to not allow anyone of the opposite sex to meet their need for affection, or intimate conversation, or recreational companionship, or sexual fulfillment. When those needs are met, they deposit so many love units that you are likely to fall in love with that person, and make you hurt your spouse in the worst way possible. I hope that explanation helps.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

The BH should "take full responsibility, which is a hard thing to do. It�s hard to say 'it's my fault you are having the affair.'� He added that this is a "Plan A message."

But he explains the extent of that "responsibility" in his post about the bank robber. The bank denied a loan to the bank robber, so the bank robber felt a need to rob the bank. That is obviously not the bank's fault it was robbed. He differentiates between reasons and excuses.

I think where you might be getting messed up is with the ill-chosen word "responsibility." If you can put aside that word it might be easier to understand. You need to take it all in context, instead of zeroing in on certain words.

In Plan A, the BS should take responsibility for any reasons caused by him for the affair. While it is no excuse, traveling jobs often lead to affairs. If a BS has a traveling job, that has to be addressed and resolved. The BS' inadvertant actions likely contributed to the affair. That is not an excuse but it is a reason.

On the other hand, some affairs occur in solid marriages where all the needs are met. The BS has no role whatsoever.

Now would you agree that their are some ill-chosen words, or a in my view, a mistake, with what he said in the recording about the A being the BS's "fault"?

No, this is where I think it is important to understand in what context he means fault and responsibility. He explains that with his bank robber analogy. So no, I dont agree it is "incorrect."

You seem really caught up in this question to the point of being stuck.

It really doesn't matter what the forum thinks or even what Dr. Hartley thinks about your own personal situation. All however many members of the forum and the entire Hartley clan and a chorus of angels could all join together singing that it wasn't your fault, and you'd still be asking.

What matters is what you and your wife think. Have you talked with her about it openly and honestly? You may want to lay down the fault mantle and see what she has to say.

You both contributed to the situation in which the affair occurred. She ran the Titanic into the iceberg while you were asleep below deck.

Whose fault is that? Hers -- and yours -- and we could dissect that all day long while the ship sinks in front of our eyes.

I see a man who is not wanting to take a cold hard look at himself and recognize what he needs to change. I see a man who wants this forum and Dr. Harley to absolve him of any responsibility because the affair wasn't his fault, therefore he doesn't need to change anything he's been doing.

It wasn't your fault. So what. You can sit around feeling sorry for yourself and assuring yourself you have no responsibility or you can DO something about it. You didn't ask for this and you don't deserve it, but here it is -- don't know if you have kids, but if you do this will look very familiar, or it will at some point.

The thing to do is get on board with ALL the MB program -- not just the parts you like, and that starts with being open and honest with her about your thoughts on fault.

LEAD!