Hello everyone. I'm not sure where to start, so Ill start at the beginning. I've been a short term lurker here and hopefully have all the lingo correct. I've had the opportunity to read through all basic concepts and most of the Q&A's. I just wish I found this site a year ago.

My W and I got married in 6/2006 after being together for 2 years. The first couple of years of our M was great (or so I thought, more on that later.) We moved about a hundred miles from our hometown so she could go to school. We needed the income from an FT job and I didn't know what exactly I wanted for a working career, so I got a job at a retail store. The basic idea was she starts her career then I go to school and start my career. She has a family history of having early hysterectomies and wanted to have a child. After two miscarriages our DD was born. This was while she was going to school.
My W has some medical problems, one of which makes her susceptible to diseases. When I get a cold, she gets a cold and walking pneumonia. You can probably imagine how this panned out with her going to school at the same time. When our DD was born I got a better paying job with a more regular schedule. Eventually the constant germs coming from daycare made my W a SAHM, not really by her choice.
I started an online school program (software development ) in the hopes I can start to earn more of an income. (Does any of this detail actually matter?)

Enter the most painful part of this story for me. I completely handled this incorrectly. Our main hobby together is online gaming. She met the OM #1(?) through a group of people we played with together. Long story short, I had broken red flag radar. She arranged for a trip to see this group (hmm), and had set it up so I couldn't possibly get time off work to go (hmm!) AND arranged for time before and after she met up with everyone to be with OM alone (Alarms should be blazing here). Right before she came home I got a call from her that the OMW found pictures my W had sent to OM and swore that it was an accident, and the pictures were actually for me. I believe you all call this gaslighting. I feel horrible for this now, but I shrugged off the call from the OMW. I wish she did a nuclear exposure then, but oh well. This happened 2/2010.

Shockingly (sarcasm), I had seen W making sure I couldn't see her cell phone screen (6/2011). I spied her phone lock over her shoulder, got a hold of it, and glad I had the foresight to snap pictures of what I saw. Evidence of an EA that went on for 9 months confirmed, probably much longer, which would have been a PA if they weren't separated by long distance. I confronted her two days later, the affair died horribly (gradually over months, only just a couple of months ago she changed her email). Exposure was also weak, only to a couple of my friends and parents. I ended up trying to rug sweep and am paying for it now. Only thing that was done any semblance of correct was cutting off from the aformentioned group of people.

December after comes around, and she wasn't vigilant enough in wiping out her phone history, and found her using a game with a chat function to find random guys to have explicit chats with, and used a video chatting program as well. I also found another not so random guy (OM #2) who she had shared videos, pictures and chatted with. More rug sweeping from me, even possibly accepting the fate that I have an unfaithful wife. Never again. No formal NC, but was handled by the contact info change.

Her explanation for this has always consistently been that she felt that I ignored her over the years of our M. There's truth in what she says (ever heard of an H falling asleep with his W in labor? Horrible I know...). She seems truly remorseful now, and I have free access to all the electronics in the household. But there's still some things that don't make sense to me. For example, she maintains that nothing physical happened between her and OM #1 during the time no one else knew about they were alone together. Or that she never used the video chat program for anything explicit.

I need advice and a place to vent. I'm not even sure what questions to ask.

We started going to MC a month ago. I think we're paying to go argue in front of someone.

I didn't want to make my first post horribly long. Its very late and I'll post more tomorrow.

Jd179

Welcome to Mb and sorry you are here,

The vets will be here soon

Have you exposed the second A? Have you demanded she ends contact with the OM 1 and 2 and send NC letters to both of them using the MB template?

I would highly reccomend you schedule a polygraph and get the full truth and sometimes just scheduling a polygraph will push the WW into a full confession.

Have a quick look in the operation investigate section of this site, I would put a keylogger on any pcs you have at home.

Your WW has had these affairs because she has bad boundaries around men if she has agreed to work on the marriage you will need to make a firm list of boundaries you both have to adhere to in order to protect your marriage from further affairs

For example

No opposite sex friendships
No online gaming
No more nights aparet
Openess and honesty at all time
Total transparency so you both have each others passwords for all Internet utilities and she is accountable for her whereabouts when she leaves home

For your part please read plan A, this is where you meet your WW emotional needs in order to create a romantic love where she won't have her needs met by anyone else.

When your WW wife criticises the marriage she is rewriting history in order to justify her bad behaviour , for example the falling asleep during labour thing, well I have 4 children and my husband fell asleep during 3 of my labours because I was in labour in the middle of the night, I never resented him for it or got angry. Labour takes a long time and sometimes nothing happens for hours during the 3rd labour of my DS I encouraged my H to have a little nap so he wouldn't be tiered when the real action started. The only labour he didn't fall asleep during was our fourth child who had the good grace to show up in at a reasonable daytime hour and only took 2 hours to deliver.

Traditional marriage counseling is often destructive and has about an 84% failure rate. You're better off ending it completely and reading Surviving an Affair, then going through the online program or going through the MB counseling center. At the very least, after reading SAA, read through the books Love Busters, then His Needs, Her Needs.

When we went to MC, no one talked about sloppy boundaries or Extraordinary Precautions or falling in love with each other. Instead we talked about things like conflict resolution. The MC, and we thought she was good at the time, didn't discuss the conditions of the affair or transparency. Now when I look back at all those months of marital therapy, often miserable raw hours spent where we came out drained and hopeless, I wish we had known about MB.

Follow MB all the way and drop your counseling, unless she/he is 100% MB.

My H also fell asleep during my labors....once on my labor bed, crowding me in already majorly large contractions (that is something I have some primal animosity about) BUT it is not a deal breaker of a marriage.
No marriage is perfect.
Waywards can list a litany of grievances to justify their actions.

Hey NB28,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm familiar with the NC letter concept. I'm sure I could get her to do it. OM #2 is sleaze with no W or girlfriend. I have *not* exposed OM #2 but could.

Polygraph could be interesting. Like I said, there's quite a few of her answers that don't make any sense.

I'm familiar with EPs. We've only got one car, and she's not going anywhere without me these days. I think I'd have to come up with my own list... No online gaming would be a tough one, as it's one of our favorite things to do together.

I haven't used any keyloggers/etc. on her computer. We are both technically saavy and she'd spot one.

She told me she's dedicated to doing whatever she needs to do to work, and she proactively offered to end existing male friendships and offered transparency on current activity. The toughest things for me (atleast in my mind) are her insistence on past events that just don't make sense. And the pain. I'll take another look over the plan A material again. I'm ordering SAA and HNHN once I've got the chance.

Wish I wasn't. Thank you for your honesty and for your willingness to be coached. There are many better coaches here for you than I. In my case OM #2 has never been admitted. Even if he is gone, my marriage limps along and I suffer. But there is one small point I want to make to you....
Behavioral Change... such as the ending of male friendships etc. is only TEMPORARY, sort of like a diet. Only a complete change in belief system will produce lasting change in your WW.
Keep that in mind.
And if you are both technically saavy and your WW is a gamer, I would recommend you get a voice activated recorder and hide it and a high quality microphone in the location where on line games are played. I presume your WW talks with other gamers while playing....
Don't give up on your marriage. You obviously are valuable to your WW or she would have split. Now your job is to make certain the cake eating is not going on.

Hurting Turkey
Me: BH 57
WW: 50
Hers,DSS: 23, 19
Mine,DD:30, DS,28,23
Ours, DS: 12

Yay. Small stroke of luck, local bookstore has most of the books in stock so I'm picking them up after work.

This is your WW second A and unless you want a third one you need to toughen up your marriage and as the one who has the best moral compass at this time it's up to you to take charge and insist on a marriage where another affair will not be possible.

Unfortunately I went through a brief period where I was a WW and I can honestly say when my H begged and pleaded or allowed me to continue with my destructive behaviour I found him alot less atteactive in comparison to when he put his foot down and stood up to my stupid behaviour. He learned from that and I wouldn't get away with looking in another guys direction never mind chatting to any online.

"honestly say when my H begged and pleaded or allowed me to continue with my destructivebehaviour"

This was me a few months ago. I'm beating myself up over this. I realized this while reading through the MB material here. I'm done being an enabler. I've spent the past couple of weeks reading through tens of pages of this forum, stupidly rationalizing that my situation wasn't as bad as what I was reading.

Exposure was wimpy. It all seems like it was so long ago now. Only my close family knows. WW convinced me to keep it under wraps. I know now this was stupid on my part and I've got work to do to correct this.

I get off work soon and I hope she's open to changing what we're doing. Right now what we're doing is useless.

Jd176

If the A is over ( and you have verified this every way possible) and your WW is on board with recovery then the right thing to do is for her to expose her own action to everyone by letter written by her and approved by you.

This would be a good sign that she is remorseful of her actions and is willing to fully embark on recovery with you.

But I can't see your WW agreeing to this just yet, I think you will need to plan A for a bit to show her that you are willing to address the needs she has accused you of not meeting and used as an excuse for the Affairs.

Before any of this though the polygraph is essential, if she won't agree to one ( and trust me we have heard every lame excuse in the book but none of them ever hold up a polygraph is safe accurate and doesent care of the person taking it does not believe in it it will still catch liars) then reconciliation and rebuilding is out of the question until you know the full extent of the damage your marriage suffered.

Have yopu exposed your WW's affair? Read this.
Exposure 101

First you need to install a keylogger and verify NC between her and OM.

Second if she is serious about recovery read in the exposure thread what she needs to do and needs to write a NC letter to OM.

Do you have the book SAA?

BrainHurts,

W recently told me that OM #1 attempted contact and she said she ignored it. I screwed up and sent him a "**** off" message which resulted in me being blocked from his and OMW #1's Facebook pages. I'm going to get the phone record from when OMW contacted me and hope it's still the same number.

OM#2 is a sleazeball with no W/GF. I'm not sure who I'd expose to besides Facebook contacts.

I ordered SAA today from mb.com.

Actually Dr. Harley encourages BH to contact OM, but just not with the "**** off" message, but I understand, been there and done that. Listen to this Dr. Harley encourages BH to contact OM

Did you read the exposure 101 thread I posted to you? I would definitely do the facebook exposure on both men so you hit family and friends. We had one BH that sent 600 FB messages. I think that is the record.

Yes try and find OM's BW's numbers. Have you tried from your WW's account to see if he hasn't blocked her to find OM's BW? Also look at this Facebook: A backdoor to "see more information"

IS your WW willing to write the NC letters? I would cc OM's BW when you do send them.

So by this, do you mean OM's BW already knows of their affair?

Yes, I've read the exposure thread. I'm hoping it wasn't a grave mistake to wait as long as I have.

OMW knows of atleast part of the affair, and contacted me to tell me about it. OM/WW knew the warning to me was coming, and I was gullible and gaslighted (2/2010) into believing nothing was happening then.

I'm confident that NC has been maintained on WW's end. Installing a keylogger without her knowledge can't happen (both of us are tech saavy, I confident she'd spot it.)

Exposure is never to late. It will help your WW to stay accountable.

Has your WW wrote a NC letter to both OM?

How did she carry on most of her affair? Facbook, texting? If she is so tech savy how are you verifying NC?

Is your WW on board with recovery?

NC letter - No. I'm going to insist on it once I've collected my thoughts.

It was conducted through World of Warcraft, email, and Android games which have messaging features.

Her phone doesn't have any logs of apps removed/added and doesn't have any traces of files left over from such activity. Her computer, phone, camera, and camcorder do not have any traces (obvious or otherwise) of any pivtures/videos that can't be matched up. Even with this, I'm only fairly confident she's being 100] honest. I'm confident about NC with previous OM's, but not her current honesty. I do not believe she has the knowledge to wipe out traces of deleted files.

She says she is, and in many ways acts like it (proactively offered transparency, which makes me worry about something underground), offered to end all/have no more male friendships.

There's just some things from the fairly far past that do not make sense, and more from the recent past that has me concerned. A huge red flag recently was seeing a pic of her in lingerie on her phone that mysteriously poofed later. She claimed to have sent it to me, but I never recieved. It seems her phone has such trouble with picture messages (bull****).

Hmmm. You're very wise to see the red flags. Is she still playing these games?

So what's your plan? Do you think there may be a new OM? If so what snooping techniques are you going to do?
You're in Plan A while you're getting your intel together.

Carrot and Stick of Plan A

...a pic of her in lingerie on her phone that mysteriously poofed later. She claimed to have sent it to me, but I never recieved.

Don't worry about this, my friend. I'm sure she sent it to you as she says, but the Easter Bunny is late this year with his deliveries!

Tell me you CAN'T be that gullible or as much as a doormat as this leads us to believe. Far from even thinking about believing this crap, you should not even have given her the satisfaction of mouthing it to you.

Dude, she has never yet suffered any penalty from her infidelities. (And oh yes, the one with OM#1 at least was a PA, so stop being an enabler even unto today. Get and insist she take a series of STD tests.) Since she gets to line up guys for subsequent affairs and your reaction has been so far, "Please stop doing that, sweetums!", she ain't gonna stop.

Expose her past illicit activity to everyone you know who knows her - and that includes your "gaming" pals. (Note to self: If you are ever again single, NG, start playing online games. The sluts appear to gather there!) Her family and you family must be told she needs their active assistance in keeping faith with the vows thay witnessed. (And contact any clergy she deals with as well.)

For the love of God, dude, stop being a spectator at your own disembowelment, and FIGHT!