I wouldn't worry about answering him about the $60. He is most likely going to withhold any future CS, so I would get on that, and figure out your budget and any legal rights, and recourse that you must take.

If you aren't going to block him on your phones, or emails, then I would have your IM keep your phone for a few days after entering PB, and changing your email passwords. This way, you can still have the evidence you need, but you won't know anything about it, at the time. It's about protecting yourself.

If you can't get the PO tomorrow, are you still going to expose? You can expose while in PB. It is sometimes suggested.

If you are already ignoring him, and not meeting any of his ENs, then why don't you pull the PB trigger sooner rather than later?

WHAT is going on with this PO???

I have helped people get temporary restraining orders many times, (used to work with victims of domestic violence), and because of the dangerous situation have always been able to get them quickly, as in domestic assault one night and an OFP (Order For Protection which is what we called them when I worked in the field) the next morning. I cannot imagine what is holding this up, there is a serious flaw in your system there.

This man is digging through your garbage. This is a serious situation with a ticking time bomb off his rocker. Make sure you are documenting everything and keep working on this, push it, make sure they know this is a domestic situation and you fear for your safety.

There are vets on here who have seen it all regarding people in 'the fog.' I am not one of those. I am however trained in domestic violence and I am very worried about your Plan B letter going to your WH prior to getting some protection in place for yourself and your kids. I have a real bad feeling about his mental stability and a Plan B letter could be just the thing to push him over the edge.

I get conflicting messages on here, and feel conflicted myself. I want to send the Plan B letter, but I am afraid it will push him over the edge. I know exposure will. I want the PO in place beforehand. I think things are coming to a head, with her maybe thinking she can make a nice clean break with her husband and still look squeaky clean - I want to expose ASAP. But I don't dare to do either until I have a PO. The person I had left evidence with (of the affair - I couldn't stand to keep it around) seems to have misplaced it, so I also have to try to get that without putting myself in danger. I need something to be able to send people if they request evidence after I expose, or I defeat the whole purpose. I thought I had what I needed, but I have nothing.

I had no idea it was such a pain to get a protective order. You would think trying to run your own daughter off the road would be enough, but apparently his rights override ours. We have to have enough "proof."

I just want him to leave me alone. The most recent hold-up is that I have to have copies of police reports documenting domestic violence. I went to request them Fri, and was told it takes TEN DAYS to get them. I thought the court could get them faster, but they sent me back to get the records again today. The person who does the records is gone today - they said come back tomorrow. I can't take another day off work. I don't know what to do. I've been going through the Victim's Advocate office. They told me I can try to do it on my own, but then I have to face him alone in court, which scares the crap out of me - especially since he is such a smooth liar, can look someone in the eye and lie, convince them he is a victim, or the sanest man on the planet, and then turn psycho as soon as we are out of there.

Off his meds, and consumed by an addiction, I have no idea what he is capable of anymore.

I guess I will hope they can get copies of the police reports in to the Victim's Advocate's office tomorrow.

I appreciate any prayers. I need all the help I can get. He keeps calling tonight, wanting to see the kids again, wanting to tell me how awful I am. I know if he shows up here I can call the police again, but I am tired of living like this. I want it over. I'm sad, but he just is no longer the man I love.

Does exposure ever work this late in the game? If I could get rid of that woman, maybe something of him would surface again. It is worse than watching someone you love die of cancer. The same black death takes them over, kills them slowly, takes them away from you. But then you have this burned-out shell walking around still, or trying to make your life hell.

Okay, someone prayed for me! A different victim's advocate person called me. Said she could have police reports printed in the morning. (Still the matter of getting them downtown to courthouse and going to work, but I'll get it figured out). WH went out of town (for work, not sex - far as I know, anyway:), so he's outta my hair for a day or 2 anyway. And my holder of incriminating info called to say they found the flash drive I asked them to stash a long time ago. YAY!

Now I just need advice on the Exposure letter, so I'm ready to go when the PO is in place. I'll post it again below.

Tried to throw in everyone's advice, but I think it's too long. What do I cut out, and what is important?

Legal Aid finally told me they decline to help me with the PO, after I got police reports. The officer who helped me Wed night, who was so concerned about WH's mental stability, did not put any of that in the report, although he did say that he advised me to get a PO. I have a call into him, but have not heard back.

So I'm trying to proceed on my own, but I will have to face WH in court. Any advice, unwritten?

Also, I need to make sure Exposure letter is good to go. Anyone have advice on that (in above post)?

Thanks.

Has anyone been through the Protective Order thing? Our legal separation order says "visitation as WH and children agree." So they are not legally obligated to go with him, and don't want to. (And he hasn't cared for a year and a half - now he suddenly wants to force them to go with him - it's about threatening and controlling me, not being a dad).

I'm reading all this paperwork on PO's - trying to file my own, as legal aid denied me. There's all this stuff in there about custody, his parental rights, etc. Is this going to rock the boat more? Bring a judge in who will force my kids to go with him after all this? I'm trying to get the PO for them too - they're afraid of him, he keeps threatening to take them. I do NOT want my children to have to go with him.

Hi RS,

What part of the PO process are in right now then? I familiarized myself with the Utah PO process as I am sure it is different in every state (and it's been awhile since I've worked in that field, about 15 yrs). Have you had any kind of hearing with the judge yet? From what I can read online you have to file your PO paperwork with the clerks office and then you will go before a judge with your request? The judge can, if he/she thinks it necessary, order a temporary PO and I think you would qualify for that given the volatility of your situation and the fact that you are in the process of going into Plan B (you don't need to use these terms obviously, but explain how you feel this new plan on your part will send your WH over the edge). Make sure the judge is aware of not only what HAS happened but that you are about to rock the boat. The chance of violence skyrockets when a woman leaves her abuser, I think going into Plan B will be the equivalent to your WH. You are taking away cake that he has eaten for a very very long time, and that he feels entitled to eat.

Just wondering where you are in the process. The online 'process' for Utah seems pretty cut and dry but doesn't sound like it is that in practice, whereas my experience like I said has always been cut and dry. (Although, following an arrest or hospitalization due to DV so maybe that carried more weight than your fear of a possible future episode...)

As far as the hearing for the final PO, and how to deal with WH being there. Any time you are in his presence it is a threat. Make sure the court is aware of that. Don't be afraid to request security assistance to and from your vehicle that day. I think its STUPID to require the person who is trying to get a PROTECTIVE ORDER (and obviously for a reason) to meet in the same location, at the same time, with the person who is a threat to them.

Why did legal aid turn you down for help? Another resource you might want to try is any domestic violence services in your area. There are many non profit DV services and they are usually ready to assist ANY person who feels they are in danger. I know the service I worked for would have assisted you. They may be willing to walk you through the process and give you further advice that is specific to your area. Also when I worked in the field, we knew the process, the shortcuts, had friends in the courts, knew judges that were sympathetic to the cause, etc. I think I read you are in the SLC area and I would bet there are some good resources there.

Thanks, unwritten. I tried to go through Legal Aid for the PO, as advised by Victim's Advocates (the DV help in my area). They told me if I got police reports, they would help me. I'm shortening a very long story, but VA finally got the reports for me, then LA turned me down - not enough evidence. (3 police reports, all 3 recommended I get a PO). I cannot prove injuries to myself or property.

The officer who helped me last time told me WH was over the edge emotionally, an obvious threat, had been following the kids. He did not put any of that in his report. I called to ask him to revise it - he has not called me back. He did say he advised me to get a PO for myself and the children.

I am now pursuing it on my own - filled out the forms online (thanks so much for taking time to look at those), trying to get them to the courthouse after work today. I do not get to speak to a judge for the initial temporary PO, so cannot explain Plan B or anything else. I agree that it may push WH over the edge and put me, and the kids, in danger. It is RIDICULOUS to require me to present in court, in front of him - I argued with that. His rights outweigh mine. If they don't grant it, I will definitely be in danger - my worst fear. That I'll try to get this, not get it, and just really tick him off.

In reading through the online forms, they had things about his "parental rights," how it is in the "best interest" of the children to have to see him. I am afraid now that if I pursue this, the judge may order the kids to see him - that's what WH will absolutely push for in retaliation. He knows that is how to get to me - the kids. If the kids are forced to see him, that's worse than how things are now. Why is our legal system so completely screwed up? I feel very trapped, exactly where he wants me. Afraid to do Plan B or expose - both things I need to do.

My advice at this point is to not make your decisions based on fear. When dealing with a volitale person this is very, very difficult. You have a reason to fear him and fear his retaliation. But you have to make smart decisions that are the best for you, take as many precautions along the way as you can, and roll with the punches.

In other words, get the PO. If it fails and you cannot get one, then at least you tried to protect yourself and your children, and documented that you tried in case there is future retaliation. The system doesn't always work, that is true! But you can't let the fear of failing stop you from trying.

I still say get that paperwork filed and try for the temporary PO before you send the Plan B letter. Be prepared to send it as soon as that PO is in place. Frankly, a PO is not going to stop him from trying to contact you, just give you ammunition if you need to involve the authorities. When you send it, is there some place else you can stay besides your home? I don't want you to be afraid of going home, but this is a man who stalks you outside your house, is digging through your garbage... I don't think you will be safe there when he gets that PB letter. At least for a couple days, give him time to cool down. He WILL do everything he can to break through that Plan B, I am certain. And his first stop will be your home.

You cannot let fear of him keep you from living your life and protecting yourself and you kids the best you can.

If they don't want to see him...well...let's just say your not making them go is probably making you a hero to them.

If push comes to shove, you can go to court and have the kids say that they don't want to see him.

Isn't 12 the age where they can say whether or not they want to see him? I think it depends on the state.

I thought 12 was too, which is part of why I dragged this out - to wait until my youngest son turned 12 and had a choice. But Utah is getting more pro-dad, and I've heard not just one, but several custody horror stories lately, even 16 and17-year-olds forced to go with a father they didn't want to go with. My lawyer told me flat out to try to avoid going head-to-head with him regarding custody issues, because a Utah judge at this point in time would be likely to insist on visitation, if not joint custody.

Another long story, but he's even making life hard for my 19-year-old son, impacting his employment and trying to go to school. Even when they reach "adulthood" they can't escape him. He says he wants us out of his life, he's going to get a new family, we should all move on. But then on the "off" weeks away from OW, he comes after everyone to make sure we can't. It's a sick mess. I told him the thinking he can skim the cream off the top and just take the best of both worlds, without ever having to dive into anything underneath and deal with real life in either scenario, is so unfair and ridiculously immature. He doesn't want to be a dad, but wants the kids to fill in all the empty holes in him when he can't get constant "hits" off his "drug." So not their job!!! He said it's his choice, his life, he can do what he wants, no one can tell him what to do (except OW who orders him even to quit paying CS, so he does).

I know I can't make decisions just out of fear, but I do need to be strategic. My kids are the most important thing. I don't want to make their lives harder. At this point I don't know that they would even be physically safe with him - I'm not even getting into emotional trauma or who or what they'd be exposed to.

But he has virtually abandoned them, has been unwilling to help even when I've asked him to, is never there when they need him.

I can fight him; I just don't want to. I will if I have to.

I could leave my house, but I almost think that might be the safest place. As I said, he has no way to enter, and if he sets foot on the property, they will arrest him. In fact, part of me hopes he does lose it during the temporary PO period; it will make it easier to get the permanent one. Plus it might help OW BH to get custody of his kids, so maybe he would man up and throw her out. WH and OW deserve each other at this point - all the dark and ugly corners, not just surface sunshine.

I just want to get out, and give my kids a good life. This forum has been good for me. I feel confused and stressed, but I do feel strength coming back that I have not felt in a long time. I no longer feel like I need him. I miss who he was, but who he is choosing to be now is not someone that my children or I need to be around.

You likely WILL have to go to bat for the kids. Be prepared for that--and do not let your lawyer dictate to you what to do.

Something tells me he might visit the house after the PO--what with the kids refusing to see him and all.

Also, start making a diary of his parenting behaviors, bad and good. When he attempts to see them, etc. It can only help your custody case.

Thanks. Good ideas.

Rainy, don't be afraid of telling the courts what you want or petitioning for what you want. You might not get it, but trying will not hurt and then its on the record that you ASKED before he proves you NEED it.

And don't fear upsetting or setting off a wayward. That really is a waste of your worry. He's a howling storm who would blame you for the effects of gravity. So you might as well upset him - he's already upset.

Have you read Art of War? When weak appear strong.

From what you say, your fears and the trend with Utah law makes you weak, so it is more important than ever to 'go to the mattresses'. Faking unrelenting stregnth worries waywards and makes them hestitate in case their actions make them lose their cake forever.

WH would happily strong arm you into playing along with the law to get cake, but a show of stregnth could instead see him forced to either make a decision or lay low until he makes it.

Essentially a show of stregnth makes the enemy reconsider attack, but you have to go in there guns blazing.


I would delete the stuff in brackets, for brevity. Rest is fine.

Hi rainy,

Please do not let getting the PO dictate exposure and Plan B. A PO is only a piece of paper when all is said and done. If WH does flip out, then you can call the police whether it be for harassment, threats, etc. Do you have any friends or family in law enforcement that may be of some assistance?

I would call your landlord and make it clear that should WH contact him to try and gain entry to your house, that he is your stbx and is NOT authorized to go into your house under ANY circumstances. In your rental agreement you may have addressed who is allowed entry into your home but please do this. Many people don't think and just assume oh it's ok...this person is the husband, wife, mom, dad, and can let someone in the house. Put this in writing as well...seems kind of a no duh but you'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't).

If WH demands visitation...have you spoken to the local police to see what they would do? If not, I would ask and tell them what the agreement states. If your paperwork states that the children get to decide, I don't see an officer making them go. If someone was dumb enough to agree with ex, I'd raise holy hell and ask for supervisor after supervisor because that is not what your written agreement says. Can't imagine a PD would want that sort of liability but just check so you know what to expect.

I would also contact the childrens' school and tell them that if WH shows up and tries to get the children released to him then to please contact you ASAP and do not release the children. Give them a copy of the written agreement if they want it. Tell your children not to go with WH should he show up at school either. Even if your WH went to court to force visitation, it will not happen overnight. He will likely be a major screw up between now and then so document everything.

When will you be exposing?

Thank you all! I got it! After 3 days with Legal Aid, I finally filled out online papers last night and walked into a different courthouse - all by myself - at 4:30 today. The sweet lady there stayed until 5:30 to get it done for me. Scariest thing I've ever done. And I feel so happy and free! No idea what's going to happen, but I know I am done letting this run my life, done living under WH's thumb and in fear of him and what he will do.

Protective Order in my hand - I will have it at my children's schools in the morning! WH went out of town for business this week. (I think it really may actually have been for business - weird:) So I've had a reprieve in which to do this. I will have to face him in court, which terrifies me. The legal aid paralegal said who knows if I'll get a permanent one. But the lady at the courthouse today told me, "He would basically have to prove that everything you said in this PO request - including the police report - is a lie . . . I can't guarantee you, but I think you're pretty safe." Made me feel a lot better.

You are all right - he blames me for the color of the sky, regurgitates everything OW tells him to, and is going further and further downhill ANYWAY. Thank you for the "when weak, appear strong" reminder. (I am reading the art of war, just a few chapters in). The weaker I seem to be, the harder he comes after me. I did warn him a couple of weeks ago, let the "dark side" take me over for a moment. I'll probably get edited, but I'm feeling kinda powerful right now, so I'm gonna share anyway. In reference to OW running his life - and consequently mine and my children's lives - I told him, "Someone's got to grow a pair here, WH . . . Looks like it may have to be me." Fair warning, right? I still think he's gonna be a bit surprised:)

Maybe this will scare him off, even if I don't get a permanent PO. At least he knows I'm done being run over by him and OW. I can appear strong. So done with OW running my life, dictating everything through him. I will definitely be standing up to her. Also got the name of an attorney who takes "alienation of affection" cases. Might as well try anything I can to make her life just a little bit of the hell that she so enjoys bringing to mine. It's never enough for her - getting him away from his family, taking him over, ruining our lives. She's not happy unless she has him coming after me constantly, trying to make my life worse. Even my kids' CS now? No. Soooo done with OW. She definitely thinks I am weak. I'm trying not to let evil vindictive thoughts take me over, but the thought of knocking that little plastic princess tiara off her spoiled rotten 4-year-old head does make me smile:)

So, I plan to mail Plan B letter in the morning - he will probably get it Friday, which I think is the day he's coming back into town. True, that if he doesn't have the PO yet and comes after me, I can just call the police - more documentation. I think it's time to send it. It's been 2 weeks since he saw OW, so I would think he's meeting up with her this weekend. Maybe not, with his business trip. I'm trying to plan exposure carefully. I want to do it after he's been served with the PO, and ideally just after he gets home from a trip with her, so I have a couple of weeks of them apart in which to divide them further. Definitely not while they are together and it can unite them - want to make sure they are across the country from each other when that hits, that she's at home with BH and her teenagers, and all the friends and church people who think so highly of her, when they get the fb message. I want her right in the middle of whatever nuclear fallout hits.

So, I'm doing some casual snooping to figure out the exposure schedule, and proceeding forward with my life.

Bless everyone who has helped me with this. I never could have done it without the advice, support, and encouragement that I have received here! I feel like I have a whole lot of good people here in the trenches with me now, instead of standing naked in a battlefield all alone.

Well done. I'm glad you've got your PO now its time to get onto your exposure and start attacking the A. Its probably good to get this going while your feeling good about the PO. The first step takes courage (remember the good advice you've been given) once you start you will feel empowered. You will feel good that the truth is out there and you have stood against the A.