WHisapstor, I had those same thoughts. I tried to be understanding and remain non judgemental about their avoiding confrontation and tolerating OW for Isildur sake. I too thought if I didn't have MB knowledge and first hand experience of infidelity would I sit in the "tolerance camp" I posted this a page or two before this and the feedback was very educational and expressed view points I hadn't considered.

I've haven't drawn on the creative skills in a while. I really enjoyed selecting a name and modifying the story. I can relate to Indiegirl's enjoyment translating wayward babble. I forgot what a great outlet creativity is. It is a turning point defining the alien from the husband I know and love. It really helps separating the alien and will hopefully, if we have the opportunity to reconcile, will make moving forward easier if the alien with the appalling behaviour is Isildur and not "*****"

This is the first time any of my children have been in an "unknown location" I have always known the people they were with and where they were. Even though Isildur is foggy I know the children's health and physical safety will be ok, this is the only reason they have visited there. This is about to change, if he is not forthcoming I will be taking it further.

The hard part about A is the loss of control with regard to your children. You no longer can protect/prevent what they are exposed to when spending time with the wayward.

WOW Happy, this image is VERY impressive.

I remember early in Plan B the shower door broke. I sobbed. I had no one to fix it. Lucky for me my father rang, heard my pitiful questions about how should I fix it, and had a wonderful family friend around to sort it out. That was just a shower door.

You are early in Plan B. You are facing very difficult circumstances added to with health concerns. It is natural to think to yourself this early in, where the HE77 is the husband I married that swore to love and protect me in sickness and in health? He isn't there. Yet you are STILL succeeding, you are a warrior.

I hope you are proud of yourself. We don't always recognise these accomplishments at the time. But we should!

Isildur is playing games.

On Tuesday he rang DS6 and asked him to pass on request for me to drop him off to dad's work on Friday. My IM advised him today all arrangements were to go through her (I think its inappropriate to use DS6 for messages) and that Isildur had to collect him on Friday.

Isildur rang tonight (I don't answer phone between 6pm - 8pm) DS18 answered phone and Isildur asked him to pass on message "could I drop DS6 to his work tomorrow". Isildur then spoke to DS6 and told him he had something on tomorrow night and would pick him up at 9.30 am on Saturday. WTF? He can't be that foggy to make different arrangements in the one call, what is he playing at? Is this simply another form of control/manipulation b/c I haven't been in contact? Is it an attempt to get me to break contact? Can't work this one out.

Sorry for the TJ, but Karma, you have a gift with summarising this stuff.

Happy, well done on renaming WH to Isildur.

IRL I have even told some close friends about "Gollum". They get it. It stops them from calling him "idiot" or other worse names.

You don't need to work this one out.

All you need to do is:
1. Tell DS18 he is NOT a messenger. IM is. ALL messages are to go through IM or they do not go through.

2. Explain to DS6 that Daddy can not pass messages through him. ALL messages are to go through an adult, IM. DS6 is not to be piggy in the middle.

3. Make other plans for you and DS6 for Saturday. If you cave on this Happy, Isildur is going to see the chink in your Plan B. He will continue to chip away at it, because it is meeting his needs and his wants and he knows it will effect you.

I don't have kids in Plan B, so will wait for the vets to comment on whether this is right, and if the IM should reiterate conditions. My hunch is to ignore it. But I do worry about the effect this is having on DS6. I also know this is what Isildur is playing on... your motherly love.

What I am 100% certain of... don't waste precious head space on trying to decipher Isildur's "thinking" or "reasons". You just can't make sense out of nonsense.

Thanks Caracal, it was a case of I just had to do it, if I didn't I was going to have a bigger problem.

The effect on DS6 is my concern. Fortunately I said to him "I am so happy I get to spend another night with you, how lucky am I" he laughed and gave me a hug. Fortunately (although its really sad) DS6 didn't seem to worried about the change of plans, hopefully he was more focused on the Ninjago Lego Sildur purchased for him During visit to Oz.

Your right it isn't worth wasting head space or time trying to figure it out. I really don't get how this could meet anyone's needs or wants. Oh the wayward mind is a sad one.

The request to change the time or place didn't come from IM so you didn't get it.

Does your WH keep DS6 for overnight visits? WOuld he be picking him up today and keeping him there? If that is the case, then what I would do, is as Caracal stated, and take DS6 somewhere else. You would assume, because you didn't receive any messages, that your WH wasn't coming this weekend, so you made other plans with your DS6.

I had some moments like this early in my PB. There was a night, that my WH decided he was going to come and get the boys, and we weren't doing Fridays, but he didn't go through the IM. So, since I knew he was coming, I took the boys out for dinner. Needless to say, there were quite a few phone calls, to the house and cell phone(he was supposed to talk to them on the cell phone everyday, so I didn't change the number). We even went to my BIL's house, and my WH was even attempting to call him. He didn't answer either.

WSs often refuse to use the IM, so you need to do things, especially early on, to show them that you're serious. You owe it to yourself, and your IM.

Scotty, Noted your advice. Yes DS6 has weekend visit - Fri afternoon till Sun.

Funny he was sent a message today advising all arrangements were to be made via IM not through children. He was also advised he had to collect son, I wasn't dropping him to Isildur's work (what a hide to request this after his recent behaviour).

What I don't understand - within the same phone call he advises each son something different about DS6 visit (Fri afternoon me dropping off/Sat morn he collecting) Wayward foggy mind, manipulation and control or trying to get me to break Plan B, or all of the above?

A, B, C or D, it doesn't matter.

Happy, I know you are trying to second guess and decipher everything. I know because I did it.

It got me nothing but confusion, hurt and a more drawn out personal recovery. Have you got a rubber band to snap whenever you start to consider these questions?

No maybe I need a rubber band.

I know I need to stop trying to understand. Thats me though, I look at things, analyse, reason and then make decisions. I've always researched and tried to understand to help me cone to terms with/deal with any challenging situations.

I have to remember I'm dealing with "soulmate schmoopies" and not worry about the illogical reasons behind wayward fog.

I'll focus on enjoying the extra time with DS6 ... Isildur's loss my gain.

I'm the same, part of what my employers love is my analytical skills.

I don't mean this as a criticism Happy. You are new to Plan B and are still processing. What I wanted to point out, is that as time goes on, and you heal away from your WHs addiction, you will see it all clearly for what it is. This takes time and your own actions. Not necessarily trying to figure out the foggy thoughts of an addict.

Glad to hear you are basking in DSs attention.

Hi Cara, I didn't take it as a criticism. I'm open to any comments and advice that will help. I know its best to not try and figure out foggy actions. Its just at the moment there is a lot going on behind the scenes (bank, lawyers etc)and I'm trying to keep if not one step ahead but in tune with what he is up to ... his actions don't fill me with confidence.

Okay, your WH has been reminded that any and all communications need to go through the IM, but next time, and there will be a next time, you don't even mention it. He knows this already, he is just refusing to abide by it. Well, he's a big boy, he's capable of learning, and reading, as well as understanding so it's up to him. It's not like his boss calls him to tell him that he needs to be on time for work, so you don't remind him to abide by your rules. It just is.

Sooooo, what colour are your nails?

An update: Isildur has not paid this week's child support (informal arrangement) I am currently applying for formal arrangement. I have
also been in contact with lawyer as he is only paying "his share" of rates, insurance etc. Iam a SAHM (resigned from my job 12mths ago to relocate cities to be full time family - he agreed to me taking time out due to external stresses of last 2 yrs) and have been unable to access my share of the rental income as it is currently part servicing the mortgage Isildur is defaulting on.

Frustrating given he is defauting and using this money to fund his & PEGI's (thanks for idea for OW name LogansRun) lifestyle.... driving new/newish BMW, holiday to Oz, weekends away, furniture, clothes & shopping sprees, all while I had to save for 2mths to pay for surgery to remove potential melanoma .... aaagh venting over.

As a result of attempting to obtain contact details for Isildur's residence via IM, Isildur has contacted sons at home. Told DS18 I would not allow DS6 to visit unless I had contact details. Then told DS6 his visit this weekend was cancelled because I wanted the address, he is "scared" to give me the address and he would not be able to visit whilst I wanted the address.

So much for loving his son, he's prepared to noot see him rather than give me contact details.

Unbelievable apart from any parental or legal obligation(I'm sure I have this right) to disclose, comonsense should prevail I would want this in case of an emergency.

I can't believe he told DS6 he is "scared" to give me the address, what does he think I am going to do with it? The last place on earth I want to be is anywhere near their "soulmate schmoopie house". I have no desire to see them together let alone be anywhere near them.

Would appreciate comments.

Just received a text from OW:

"Hi BS, This is OW. Suggest we sit down and talk to discuss a few things and clear the air"

he's not scared. he's trying to control you the only way he can think of right now: with the kids.

happy, i know this is going to be hard, but you need to change your perspective on DS. you going along w/WHs plans (such as accepting a phone message through DS18) will affect him more than not seeing his dear, disgusting father in his hovel. (i'm sure it's not a hovel, but you know what i mean.) your kids seeing you stand strong and not bending (like listening when they tell you a message, rather than saying "stop! remember our game plan: you don't tell me anything about daddy or OW") demonstrates you bending. be a strong stalk! this constant interference in PB is hurting you.

if anything, your DS6 having WS tell him he's "scared" probably has him perplexed. he knows you are the all-loving mummy. he's probably wondering why WHs head is stuck up his [censored] and why he's being ridiculous.

frankly, IMveryHO, WS can do without a weekend visit. he can have the next one when he does it properly: through IM, period. i know that doesn't give you much of a break, but use that time wisely together.

((((happy))))

DS18 didn't offer message I questioned him. DS6 was in tears after call. I asked him what was wrong and he told me the story. I questioned DS18 because I wanted to get to the bottom of what Sildur was playing at.

Sildur cancelled his visit the weekend before OZ trip at the last minute due to fatality investigation/funeral service at work that weekend. DS6 has not seen Sildur in 4 weeks and was looking forward to seeing him. I can't believe Sildur would cancel visit rather than give me an address (which I subsequently found late today on a document relating to another matter)

Even though I am dark, if DS is in tears I will listen and comfort him. He is more important than any minor setback I may have. It's easier to deal with that than sit back and watch my son hurting.

Quoted to bump to top of my thread for comments