Your WH also has to deal with the fallout of his affair, and tearing apart the family. There are times that my DS9 calls home while he is with WH. It KILLED me to talk to him, and console him, so I started not being home until after 10pm.

I have had a lot of advice from MANY vets, so I am just paying it forward. It's hard at first. The more you stick to it, the clearer your thinking about it all becomes. Soon, it's like second nature. I would suggest that NO ONE in Plan B, with small children, provide ANYTHING while the WS has the children. This is supposed to mimic divorce, and I know that if I were divorced, I wouldn't be providing anything to help take care of my children. It's true that my WH doesn't provide snacks, so the children are hungry when they come home, and he has only purchased them PJ's so he washes their clothes, but they survive, and then they're back home and in my protective embrace again.

I appreciate your advice Scotty.

I can relate to the consoling phone calls. Fortunately my only heartache was during the first overnight visit when Isildur and Pegi had moved (OW sold her house). DS6 text me asking me to pick him up b/c he was in tears, sad, wanted to come home. I replied suggesting he wait until he felt better and see how he felt, he may want to stay. About 2.5hrs later DS6 rang asking me to pick him up. I told him I didn't know where the house was, he asked me to talk to dad as he wasn't listening. Isildur's reply was that "he wasn't giving in". This was heartbreaking a sleepless night worrying about DS6.

Fortuately the next visit my DS16 stayed and this helped with the transistion. DS6 has been happy to visit since, particularly with all the gifts, outings etc (bribes).

My only other call was a friendly call from DS6 that lasted 20 mins until Isildur cut it short by asking him to help him with something. I think Isildur found it hard DS6 was happy to talk so long, his calls are much shorter.

Ouch! How do you do that though, Scotty? I agree, screw WH, but do your kids suffer? Can't you both just get custody and tell WH's and OW to jump off a bridge? Geez! Why does the world work this way?

I guess you both do what you have to do. Hugs and prayers.

Rainy, for me it toughest when it involves my children. I wish our laws followed the US and I could prevent PEGI having contact with DS6, the other 2 are older so according to the law it is their decision whether to have contact.

It sickens me that PEGI plays happy family with my son. Apart from the infidelity aspect, the fact that she is a liar and manipulator.... not someone I want my children spending time with.

WHisp, sorry only just noticed this post, I was looking for something to post on another thread.

The reference to the passport was from an incident prior to going into Plan B was used in discussion about Isildur still living a secret life.

Just posted an except from Isildur's response to exposure on another thread (to show foggy response is to call us crazy etc)
Only just realised ... must be the sleep deficit, they've followed the "soulmate schmoopies" script portraying me to OW's friends as the crazy irrational wife "reinforced to our friends that you are not behaving in a rational and sane manner" Isildur had even told our DD16 that I was crazy, f***d in the head.....grrrrr.

A little sad today. I had to go to ED (hospital emergency dept) re prior surgery. Everything OK but on antibiotics.

Had to complete next of kin details ....

I am supposed to be resting, easier said than done as a single parent.

Would appreciate comments, particularly from the vets.

Whenever I didn't comply (selling assets, later increasing mortgage & fire sale) with Isildur and instead made a stand to protect our financial security he would state initially that he was not coming back, then it progressed to he would divorce me. I never acknowledged these statements only validated my actions (protecting family's financial security), although not in a short statement. My replies were written in a calm rational manner, but to be honest I did defend the accusations.

After further MB research I think it would have been best to have kept to a simple statement "I won't discuss divorce, I will talk about our marriage" or "I will protect our family's financial postion" Are the simple statements meant as a means of not LB and keeping it short for the waywards foggy mind and not getting into a foggy debate? Does it make any difference how you reply if it is done in a calm rational manner?

By ignoring the D comment rather than stating "I don't do divorce, I do marriage" would that have given the impression that I didn't care?

I know that now I am dark its a case of "shut the gate the horse has bolted" but any feedback will be useful to help me support other posters.

How would saying "I don't do divorce, I do marriage" give the impression you don't care?

You're standing for your marriage and not lovebusting. How much more can you care about your marriage? Now trying to figure what a wayward's crazy mind is thinking is another ball game.

They are aliens and there is no making any sense of them. Be careful trying to analyze them. One thing I've learned from these boards is how all the stories are the same with different characters.

Do some waywards come out of the fog? Yup. Do some come out soon enough to save their marriages? Sure and some don't.

I know it sucks and waywards suck. They are very self centered in their foggy state. It's all about them.

BH, what I meant was b/c I didn't say "I dont do divorce I do Marriage" I ignored the comment, would ignoring the comment give the impression I didn't care.

What I am really trying to understand, so I can help others:

1. Does it matter how you reply as long as there are no AO or DJ?

2. Is the reasoning for a one sentence reply ("I won't discuss divorce, I will talk marriage" "I will protect our family's financial postion") to prevent LB, keep it simple to the point for the waywards foggy mind and to avoid a foggy debate?

Happy, being in Plan B, you shouldn't be thinking much about your WH, but I know that you analyze whilst in Plan B to figure out what went wrong. I get that.

Now, you don't engage a wayward because you can't educate a wayward, everything they think is always right. And when you argue with them, you run the risk of LBing, sure, but they also LB you, and your LB$ takes a ding. Also, when you engage a wayward, you give them ammo for their entitlement. They already think that you are the enemy, and by engaging, you put yourself firmly in that position. Also, affairs thrive on DRAMA, and you feed the big bad hairy affair monster by giving it more drama. That's it in a nutshell.

Scotty: Reading other threads got me thinking about my own situation and how I handled things pre discovering MB. I wondered if by ignoring the comments it gave him the impression I didn't care. I also wondered if my responses were the right way to handle his babble,even though I tried not to LB.

Your post indicates its best to reply with one sentence response rather than engaging ("I don't do divorce, I do marriage"; "I am fighting for my M, the sun rises every morning")

I've been wanting to pay it forward and help others, this for me has a healing effect. I have at this stage only offered encouragement and support, I don't feel I'm in a position to offer advice yet. This is why I am trying to understand the principles and wayward behaviour not only to help me come to terms with what has happened, but to be in a better position to help others.

Re: Plan B don't think of WH - I get what you are saying, but its not so easy to stop thinking about Isildur, our life etc. I've spent half my life with him, I miss him, our marriage, our family. I know I can get through this but it really hurts.
Analysing, researching etc is my way of understanding and dealing with life's challenges, even though it may be painful it helps me move forward and grow as a person.

Thanks for your reply it has provided clarity.

When I first started helping others, I didn't think that I knew enough. I was always worried that I wasn't going to help, or that I would lead someone astray. I often started with, "The vets will be along shortly..." but I learned through helping. I still remember a back and forth I had with ML once. It was one of the best learning experiences I had. Also, by watching what others posted to people, I learned a lot more.

Have you read any of DrH's books?

I find that I am not so great at helping people when they first arrive. I can add to some things, but some posters are stronger at that. I, of course, can help a great deal with Plan Bers, since I have walked the walk. I also find myself being able to help people with Plan A. Recovery, I haven't done MR, so I defer to those who have, but I do know the ins and outs, and I can point out things like UA, POJA, etc.

I KNOW that while you are in Plan B, you will start to look back at your Plan A and question if you did enough, if it was too short, if you said the right things, did the right things, if you should have written a better PB letter. I KNOW this, because I had those same thoughts. It's normal to have those thoughts, but you can't dwell on it. It's my job to deflect your thoughts from your WH. The more you think about him, the more likely you will be to crave contact from him.

So, in keeping with my duty, have you found a new hobby? Maybe you could learn how to speak latin. I've heard it is really useful if you want to become the pope.

Scotty is an awesome help to plan b'ers....especially on days we are feeling low, vunerable. She gives enormous encouragement. Guides you when you have questions. Nail polish tips

Scotty, I can relate to that, although I've learnt alot I'm not confident to give advice. My intitial posts noted I was relatively new, offered encouragement and support and advised the vets were invaluable etc.

You are welcome to deflect at any time ... thank you. I'm re reading my notes from a Professional Children's Writing course I did many years ago. I would like to write children's books. I'm also saving for a flying lesson (revisiting an old dream) An aero club in our city has a half hour package .... much cheaper than usual lessons.

I better save this marriage if I'm to take latin lessons.

Logan's Run, you have also provided inspiration, your post on WHip's thread provided OW with her name PEGI ... it is so appropriate and brings a smile to my face whenever I type or say her name ... puts her in her rightful place!

Yes Scotty is the Plan B Queen and nail polish tips are sooo important as I've discovered in Plan B.


I really appreciate the time, advice, encouragement and support from everyone. MB has certainly been a guiding light.

WHiP, this post is for you (I didn't want to t/j your thread), I hope by sharing this, you will know that you are not alone.

I try to keep positive but it not always easy, some days are harder than others. Like you WHiP I feel the loss, the pain, the grief. I miss my husband, my best friend, my family, my life and the dreams/plans we had for the future.

Our family faced some traumatic experiences over the last 2 years, we grew personally and our family unit was strengthened. Throughout the trauma and stress my husband and I suported each other, it helped dealing with the situation having him by my side. Now I'm facing the most traumatic painful experience and I don't have his support, his wayward alien behaviour is the reason for my pain.

Mourning the man I knew and loved and accepting the alien he has become has been really difficult. Even though I understood waywards act out of character it didn't lessen the pain. Facing the wayward foggy babble and behaviour has been more painful than the betrayal of the affair. Having the person you love treat you with a lack of care has been tough.

Watching the change from a wonderful, caring loving husband and father who I admired, respected and was proud of become Isildur is painful. Accepting that he can't/won't recognise the children's pain is due to his actions is beyond words. My husband had always been anti affairs and had no tolerance or respect for unfaithful spouses, it has been hard to accept that he was unfaithful.

My children's pain has been my hardest struggle, they are wonderful loving, caring, intelligent people. They have grown up in a happy, healthy stable family and I resent that this has been taken from them. It has been hard for them because this has been a shock. We moved from Oz to NZ 7 years ago for family and lifestyle. Now our family has been torn apart for an addiction, sacrificed to maintain a "fantasy". Its tough knowing my children have been sacrificed for a woman with no integrity, morals or principles but a history of short term relationships and equity harvesting.

I hate that I no longer can prevent what they are exposed to particularly my DS6 and his loss of innocence (infidelity, lies and manipulation).

The last couple of weeks have seen me on an emotional roller coaster - withdrawal from not having contact, Isildur and PEGI holidaying in Oz and visiting family, facing a potential melanoma and surgery alone (without hubby), selling our former family home (not current home prior to relocating May 2011), Isildur defaulting on our mortgage to fund the A, the negative impact on our children (effecting their studies). Lots ot tears, particularly when the children are at school and I'm alone to let it all out. Moments of strength and positive thinking.

Its not an easy journey but I am determined to stand for my marriage and family. I am set on a course, I will maintain my intergrity, self respect and dignity. I will be a positive role model for my children. Regardless of what the future holds I will survive, my family will survive. There are moments though I wish I could fast forward and leave the pain behind.

MB really is a guiding light, MB friends and posters have helped me gain a better understanding, provided clarity when I needed it, deflected during Plan B (thanks Scotty), but most of all they have provided support and a real understanding, they have walked in my shoes. For this I am grateful and sincerely appreciate everyone's time. Having the opportunity to pay it forward, help and support others has been healing.

So for me WHip the love of my children, my husband, the hope that when his A ends, we will hopefully have the chance of reconciliation gives me strength. Yes Plan B is tough but I try to focus on the benefits - my personal recovery, being the best parent for my children, hoping by removing myself from the equation Sildur and PEGI will begin to LB each other, the hope Sildur will come out of the fog and at the least resume his role as the loving caring father who always put his children's interests first will return and be there again for our children.

I hope this help WHiP.

What an amazing post Happy. I don't think it would have been too much of a t/j to post this on her thread. Maybe you could copy it and post it to her as well? Sometimes, posters don't see posts on
other people's threads.

And you're welcome Happy.

Thanks Scotty, I know WhiP is having a hard time (I can relate to this) and seeing as we are a similar time time into Plan B I hoped sharing my feelings would help. I wanted to let her know she isn't alone and what she is feeling is normal. Expressing these thoughts had a healing effect for me. Its amazing how good posting can be.

I did note in my last post on WHiP's thread I would post this on my thread ... I didn't want to t/j when she needs the support.

Agree Happy what an awesome post. Your strength shows daily my friend.