Rainy,

Your words mean a lot to me and give me a different way of seeing how to do Plan A that the Vets are trying to guide me to do.

You are right again that I may be hurting things more than helping right now because I have been pushed and pushed by her. I really do want to at least try to save my marriage because it was never bad enough to warrant this. It was actually pretty good. We have/had some issues that we can/could work through just as any marriage has. But then she had the affair and threw that into the mix and everything went downhill VERY quickly.

I am going to post a question for the Vets to clarify for me that your post has brought back to light for me. Thank you for your kind words about everything.

I sincerely hope my kids feel that way about me because I am truly blessed and lucky to be able to be their dad. There is nothing I would not do for those kids...nothing. If it means being single and celibate the rest of my life to be able to spend time with them then that would be fine with me.

But that won't happen because I know (after many speeches from others toward me) that I am a great catch for someone in the future if I can't save my marriage. I'm a great guy with a great sense of humor. I have known this all my life but never been comfortable saying these kinds of things about myself.

Vets,

After reading Rainy's post about how she handled Plan A even when it didn't make sense and was difficult at times I wanted to clarify something.

At the point I am right now..she has filed for divorce, I am counter filing in a couple days, she has requested we split up finances, we have been separated for 2 months, etc., should I try to go full on with Plan A at this point?

Now to clarify what I'm asking...I'm actually doing some Carrot and about to do more Stick when I counter file. I have let the Plan A being nice and pleasant slip a bit of late because she has taken quite a bit from my LoveBank. It's VERY low right now but not empty.

My concern is if I start full blown with Plan A (none of the 3 Love Busters, being nice to her at every opportunity while not being a doormat, etc) even though it feel so very odd to ME, will this not be extremely weird to her after the way we have been lately?

Y'all know my issue with Plan A which is knowing where and when to say no and stop being a doormat. Part of me feels like if I DON'T help her at times, it will give her a taste of what she will be giving up. But, that may need to be saved for Plan B if her and I need to go there.

Let me know what y'all think and also let me know if you need more info (for those who haven't followed me).

Sorry to ask this again, but I had started to kind of give up but I don't want to do that. I do still feel that there is SOME hope. It's just hard to see through all the negativity coming from her, especially now that she has filed and lawyers are involved.

You asked and answered your own question in one paragraph. You don't give her a taste of what she will be giving up, you give her a taste of what she receives if she stays. That's Plan A. I know it's hard and it sucks, but that's your job if you want any chance at recovery. That's just the way it is.

Plan B comes when you have exhausted all your PA energies and your LB$ runs dangerously low. Only you can decide when that is, but I sense you are getting pretty close. You may want to start planning for PB but at the same time PA'ing your [censored] off.

You're right, you are stuck in the middle. You need to right that ship and Plan A like you never have before. Just keep putting the cha-ching in her bank to the best of your abilities.

When you've finally had enough, go dark.

ETA: No, I'm not a vet, just my thoughts.

[youtube)nUpjtrkKA-I[youtube] Like a Lighthouse

In addition to TW and Rainy's posts here's the full lighthouse thread.
be the lighthouse..a post for those feeling tossed in the waves

Hey y'all,

After watching that video and wiping the tears from my eyes I have realized that I am angry and hurt by what she is doing and has done, but I think I'm more hurt or upset by the fact that I KNOW my wife is still in there but I can't get to her.

It's like she's been kidnapped and I'm not allowed to see her but I get little snippets of her from the kidnapper every now and then. It's the worst feeling in the world, as most of you on here know, to KNOW your spouse is within arms reach but you can't actually get to them.

The pain of knowing they're lost and unwilling (because of the fog/addiction) to allow you to get to them hurts so much that it's almost unbearable. I have felt this way the entire time we have been going through this.

I've had the weird feeling that I knew my wife was inside that alien body and mind but I was being kept from her. That thought would make me so utterly sad, then angry and then hurt beyond explanation. I have felt sorry for her because I know this is not her and because I know I'm the only one that might be able to help her. I have never wanted to abandon her in this state but sometimes the anger and hurt make me briefly feel that she deserves everything she gets.

I understand that I HAVE to be the lighthouse, yet doing that sometimes is so hard that I don't know how to continue. Especially when she (the alien) works so hard to discourage me with everything she's doing or forcing me to do.

I have to find a way to be the best lighthouse on the planet and to stay on that course no matter what.

I would like to hear from a few of the Vets to be sure that I haven't strayed too far from that to go back. I don't know if my making the changes from where I have been with her lately to Plan A'ing like a madman and becoming the lighthouse she needs will seem too "phony" to her. Maybe I should ease back into it and THEN open up the gates to the lighthouse. Maybe I should wait until after I counter file.

I know I have been the sole cause of not sticking to the plans everyone has tried to keep me on. It's just so difficult to do so when my WW is filing for divorce, wanting to split up finances, wanting to talk custody, telling me about how horrible of a dad she thinks I've been (this one hurt more than anything she's done or said especially because she knows it's not the truth), talking like I'm the furthest thing from her mind (which I'm sure I am right now), talking about coming over to get her stuff, etc.

She is in such a hurry to get this over with and that hurts me even more. Makes me feel like nothing we have built is worth anything to her. I do understand that all of this IS meaningless to her right now. The wife, marriage, family and life I knew before are gone. I have come to accept that...for the most part. It's hard to completely accept that but I'm getting there.

I know I'll be fine if this doesn't work out. I have come to realize that I AM a great catch and will not have any problems finding someone else to spend my life with. As far as that goes, friends are already throwing out hints about their single friends, sisters, etc., that they can set me up with. I have never had a problem attracting women (please don't take that as my being stuck on myself).

I do know that I want to try every possible way to save my marriage and get my family back together because I don't think anything has happened that can't be worked through to make us a stronger couple than before. I just HAVE to stick to the plans given to me here and "let the chips fall where they may" I guess.

So, Vets, if you get a chance to chime in and let me know what you think at this point I would very much appreciate it. I know many of you are tired of me, my posting, my flip-flopping back and forth and everything else so I understand if I get yet another beating.

lfh, I think you should help her at times. When it is reasonable. For example, helping her get on the internet would have been a great way to make contact. I would look for those kinds of opportunities. On the other hand, being at her beck and call when she calls and commands you to fetch something for her is not a good idea. That is plan doormat and Plan A is not supposed to involve sacrifice.

You don't want to give her a taste of divorce NOW, that comes in Plan B.

Mel,
I understand. I have tried to do this but have gotten side tracked due to the anger, resentment and hurt.

I have been unsure of how to implement some of the things you have told me but I FINALLY see that I have nothing to lose here because she is, for all intents and purposes, already gone.

I will attempt to implement as best as possible. I know she will be confused because I have honestly not been very warm and comforting lately because....well everyone knows why. It's hard to be that way when someone treats, speaks and behaves toward you like you are the last person on the planet they want anything to do with. It's also hard to deal with the idea/fact that she is more interested in another man (not really the right term to describe him) than in her own husband, family and kids.

I know that's all part of the effects of the fog and addiction, but it's still very hard to swallow.

I need to reply to an email from her so I'll get started right away with implementation.

Hey, Looking.

I think your wife is "in such a hurry" because she doesn't want to look back, doesn't want to take time to stop and think or feel anything about what she's doing. Easier to make you a monster and get out while she's telling herself she hates you.

My advice (as a novice), but having watched my WH move far beyond the point where your wife is, seeing what worked and didn't, and which things I wish I'd done very differently, is that I think you might still have a shot at this. You still love her. She is trying to convince herself otherwise, but I think she still loves you. Otherwise, she would not be in such a hurry to get done with things, would not try to egg you on to anger so she can justify her terrible behavior, and would not call you for help.

I would not give her ANY reason to demonize you the way she is trying to you. Don't be a doormat, but stand up and be the loving, strong, husband who is tough enough to love her even through this, and to set an example of what is right and true through the worst behavior from her.

If you go to Plan B, then you will know you did all you could, and so will she. She will remember, and know what she's throwing away.

FYI, not sure what your beliefs are but you don't have to be a lighthouse by yourself. I pictured God or my Savior (or whatever you believe in) standing right behind me, backing me up, strengthening me when I had no strength, and making sure that light stayed on all the time even when my power had long since run out. Of course God wants to help you save your marriage, and He will help you do everything you can. It's you and Him against the darkness of this affair, giving your WW an opportunity to find her way home.

God bless.

And ask Him to fill you up with that light, too. Then let Him. He will. It helps the hurt and anger.

Rainy,

Believe me, He has probably gotten tired of hearing me sound like a broken record EVERY DAY when I ask for the strength and guidance to be able to deal with this. I have also been asking Him to help her and forgive her for what she's done.

And I DO love her or at least the "real" her and I honestly believe that she still loves me, but she can't or doesn't want to see that right now. No one knows how it will turn out if we do get a shot at reconciliation, but I know that I want a shot at it. This doesn't need to end here.

Again...I know she's in there somewhere and it's my responsibility and duty to keep trying to "rescue" her without sacrificing myself in any way.

I'm going to do the best I can!

Good luck! I know exactly what you mean, about all of it:)

LFH, the idea of a Plan A is two-fold in its intended result: its effect on HER, and its effect on YOU.

One of the salient points to be gathered from the experiences related here is that the ability to implement a Plan A varies widely among the BHs - both in fidelity during the operation, and the duration endurable. (IMHO, there can be no shame in not being an extraordinary Plan A'er to a moved-out WW, such as GJM. NOT cutting her brake-lines when she came to retrieve her belongings would have been about as much Plan A as I could have generated.)

Having to be a paragon of assistance and devotion, with no expectation of acknowledgement or reciprocation would be galling and incredibly draining. If the effect on HER is not positive, then the effect on YOU would be such that the "steel" within you would be annealed to support a rigorous Plan B.

There's a sports maxim that says, "Leave it all on the field!" I think that applies to Plan A. Leave all your efforts and enterprise exhausted during the Plan A, so you can enter Plan B free of "what ifs".

Are you yet there? Are you near there?

I do keep wondering if she will misinterpret the nice and pleasant attitude from me during Plan A Carrot as though this is the way it is gonna remain?

OR

Will the Plan A Stick tell her otherwise?

I just don't understand what will keep her from thinking that my being nice to her now is how things will be forever. Does that make sense?

NG,

I feel like I have been bordering on being at my limit with Plan A but I don't want to give up on it yet.

With all her negativity toward me and he rush to finish things make it very difficult for me to "stay on the wagon". I really want to continue until the very last minute but things just get to me sometimes and my "I've had enough of her crap" attitude kicks in. When that happens I just want to say "to heck with her, she does not deserve me or my love", but that's really just my anger and resentment talking.

I dont want to give up on her or my marriage until the gavel drops.

Hopefully she does think you will be nice to her forever if she will end her affair. THAT IS THE POINT!! You are in a competition with the OM. Do you think he is spiteful and resentful? The goal here is to attract her back by competing with the OM. Who do you think looks more attractive?

Who is the more attractive option? You? Or the OM? Is he lovebusting her?

See, every time you lovebust her or act unpleasant, you make the OM look good. My question is whose side are you on?

Mel,

I see your point very clearly. I keep flip-flopping between implementing Plan A perfectly to allowing my anger and resentment to get the best of me and "retaliating" with the same kind of treatment that she's giving me.

I have had an awefull time keeping up the Plan A face while she's disrespecting me, bad mouthing me, rushing to split finances, drawing me into arguments, etc. When I step back and look at that I see that it shows how weak my determination or whatever word you want to use is during those times when she's doing those things.

I think the key for me is to learn to let the CRAP that she uses against me roll off. I have to learn to make myself stay focused through all that and concentrate on winning. I have to treat it like War, but War involving willpower, determination, patience, etc., instead of weapons.

I also have to realize that it's not my wife saying those things and behaving like that toward me. I guess I just let her get under my skin and I have to be able to block those feeling right now. That will be tough for me because I have always had the mindset or personality trait (good or bad) where I feel that if you wrong me then I am done with you and will not have anything else to do with you.

That "trait" is exactly why when I tell her that we will not be friends in any way whatsoever if we divorce, I am not joking. That is one thing that I am dead serious about and she has known that our whole relationship. That's why it's so hard for me to understand why she doesn't seem to believe it. I guess it's because I have been so "doormatty" on many other things up till this point.

I also have a very difficult time with the fact that I am having to compete for my wife. Difficult because I have NEVER been the kind of guy that was interested in chasing a woman. The way I have always viewed that is that if a woman doesn't want to be with me then I'm not gonn chase her to try and convince her to want to be with me. This is making it very difficult for me to follow through with many of the things I need to do here. I'm having to fight my urge to just tell her "if you dont want me then get the heck out of here and I'll find someone else."

This situation is different in the respect that we have kids, have been married for years, have built a great life together and love each other under all this extra crap that's going on.

Not that any of those traits are excuses for me not staying on track but maybe it will explain ONE reason why this has been difficult for me to deal with.

Not making excuses...just explaining my personality a little.

That may be a big part of your problem, Looking. Women want a man to chase them. If OM is doing that alpha male, chase her down, romance her thing - you've got to compete with that, show her you can and will. (NO EXCUSE for what she's doing - not even suggesting that. But if YOU want to save your marriage, change what is within your power). I would guess your wife needs to see more of that in your marriage, and that may have contributed to a weak spot that allowed the A to sneak in in the first place.

Point taken, rainy.