Justthe3ofus,

Not sure I understand your post??

I'm not sure what kind of "interaction" or "relationship" we will have once she receives my counter filing. I'm pretty sure she's gonna go off the deep end meaning she's gonna go postal!

I've been trying to practice on some responses to what I'm pretty sure will be her reaction.

Saying that, I'm wondering how ANYTHING I try to do at that point will be effective as far as Plan A. I'm gonna continue with it as heavy as I can, but just not sure how it's gonna go.

Looking,

You are in rough seas right now; but stay at the wheel and be as calm as you can when dealing with your ww. Her anger, bitterness, and resentment will be there, but so much of that is the denial of an addict. Those in fog seldom accept responsibility for their actions, but instead rationalize their way through. You know this already.

Therefore, don't pay no nevermind to her anger! As so many here say, when she goes ballistic over the filing, just ask her if she'd like a cookie.

Anyway, it is very difficult to Plan A when you are being put through a shredder feet-first in slow mode. I get that...unfortunately. But just put on that superhero uniform and do it. Someone here posted about how when your spouse is in the fog its like you and her are separated by a river. A deep, fast running river. There is no way to get her across to your side. So you pick up stones and start throwing them in the river. You throw, and you throw, and you throw. Nothing happens for a long, long time. But after awhile, the river begins to get shallower and shallower until finally it becomes shallow enough to cross.

While in Plan A, don't force anything; don't crowd or suffocate; don't be a doormat. Just be kind, thoughtful, humorous, and meet the needs you know she has. Don't try to do it all the time, but seize the opportunities when they come. Simply put, offer her the best man you can be.

There will be many times you will discuss the affair situation. When you do, avoid love busters. Deep down she knows what she is doing is wrong. If you have disrespectful judgments or angry outbursts, you will drive her further away. Having said that, don't mistake this to mean that you let her whitewash the affair. Not at all. Stand your ground, don't back down on your principles, and protect your children like a pit bull. The filing for a divorce, the exposure, and the various situations that pop up must be dealt with honestly and assertively. That's the stick part of plan A. This may anger her, but when and if the fog lifts she'll understand it.

I see what you're saying.

It's hard to balance Plan A while trying to listen to what my lawyer tells me to do to protect me and my "potential" custody battle.

I've been practicing how to deal with her attitude when it comes out and I have to brag on myself and say that I think I have been doing very well so far.

Today for instance was a great example.

Our smallest turned 6 months old today and had to get her immunization shots. I texted the WW around lunch to see how it went at the Dr. She didn't text back for a couple hours later and was kind of short with her answers. I told her I was worried the Dr visit didn't go well because she hadn't texted back.

She said some snappy comment about me not answering her call last night (when I was on the phone already) somehow being related to why she took so long to text me back (very childish). She added that the immunizations went well. All I said was "thanks for letting me know. Have a great day with the kids." She texted back a couple hours later and said she was sorry if she was snappy and mean. Said she was preoccupied with an argument she had with her cousin.

I am putting everything I have into NOT allowing her to draw me into her silly, childish arguments. I have played part of that game WAY too long.

I have a couple questions tonight.

1. Does anyone on the forum know of any WW's that are posting on the forum that have shared their side of an affair as well as coming out of the fog and recovery that would answer some questions?

2. I really like the idea of sending my WW a quote/saying or something to that affect each day. I would like to hear some opinions about that? Yes? No? Not daily? Not about love or relationships?

I'm trying to find ways to "stay on her mind" and that's proving hard to do with being separated. Better yet, is "staying on her mind" not really the key here?

Any advice or answers are always appreciated.

lfh, I want to apologize again to you for last night. I really didn't mean to raise your ire like that. I know what you are going through and I hurt for you.

I'm the primary (read:only) caregiver for my mother who's afflicted with Alzheimer's and sometimes I post when I shouldn't. Last night showed me I should never post when completely exhausted mentally and physically from dealing with her. That won't happen again. I'm better at support than what I showed last night.

I know you're doing everything you can, and it sounds like you're doing a helluva job on both Plan A and standing tall. You're right, you're wife is acting like a toddler not getting her way and that's completely normal. Not fun, but normal. Don't worry about it. Seems you have your arms wrapped around this pretty well, so just keep keep up the Plan A the best you can and let the chips fall where they may.

BTW, Plan A isn't just for trying to get your wife back, it's also very instrumental in getting you back into the type of husband that she, or possibly someone else, deserves.

Great job on not letting her bait you into an argument. This will happen time and time again though so be ready for it. She HAS to justify her actions that you are a "bad" husband to try and lessen her guilt by getting you to engage in these petty little battles to fill her "I'm right about him being a bad husband" fuel tank. Make sure that pump is out of service.

BrainHurts, her post is "FWW trying to get it right this time." She's an awesome lady, and may have some insights for you.

I wouldn't send her heavy or romantic things, and not anything preachy or about marriage or changing her life, but maybe if you find something just uplifting. I sent my WH the poem "Don't Quit." He saved it. (You can look it up online, don't have a link right off). I tried to do different things - small things. Some days I just emailed a sentence about something sweet that reminded me of him - not all lovey dovey like, but just sweet or funny. Or I would tell him something cute or funny one of the kids did or said. Once in a while I mailed him a funny card or a note or a photo. I left things for him a few times - baked a loaf of bread or cookies, left some sunflowers I picked by the side of the road. I sent him socks because he loves nice socks - little things that showed I know him. Even left a box of his favorite cereal on his truck once.

I also at one point sent him an envelope for each kid - one per week (4 kids, so 4 weeks) - with a photo of that child when they were younger, a picture of him and that child together, some little trinket or note or something I had saved that they made for him, and something that would remind him of them. (Example: there was a video he and my daughter used to watch all the time - they both loved it, so I sent him a copy of that DVD). I know your kids are little, but maybe there's something. You could do a little handprint just with washable paint on a piece of card stock and put their name and the date on it - maybe punch holes and put a ribbon through it so she could hang it up. Or just leave it like it is. Any small thing that might touch something in her heart without it being some big obvious display from you.

I tried to do different things, and do them sporadically, make it unpredictable, but just a tiny little current of love flowing into him constantly, that kept me and our kids in his mind. And I detached from any outcome of anything I did. Just knew I did it, and that was that. I did NOT do things that I would feel like I needed a response to - text messages, for example. I sent an email, or mailed something, or left something on his porch or on his truck, or called him, got to the point, and said a cheery good-bye. I did NOT hand him things directly that would require a response from him and put pressure on him, and upset me. But just one-way little messages of love that I could deliver, hope God got them to hit his heart, and then let go of.

I just tried to make them small things that said "I love you enough to do these things for you" without saying "I love you" or expecting anything back. I also would sometimes call and just share a quick thought or tell a joke or something and then tell him to have a great day. Never asked him a question, or said I just wanted to hear his voice, or gave him time to argue or ask what I wanted or tell me to leave him alone. I think the trick was to keep it all light, no pressure, no expectations, no heavy "I love you, what are you doing, why don't you come home, etc."

I also tried to sneak in some time with him at least once a week. It could not be planned ahead with him, it had to be spontaneous. I would just text him and ask if he wanted to meet for ice cream in an hour, or ask if he felt like getting dinner that night. If he didn't, I just said, "Okay. Talk to you later then. Have a nice night." When he did meet me, I just tried to be light and friendly, nothing heavy, talk about the kids, joke with him, just pleasant time with no pressure. I made sure I left first, didn't linger or act needy. Just a quick, happy good-bye. I wanted him to see me be different, be pleasant, get some positive energy from me without all the pressure, anger, sadness, etc. the affair had brought into our lives. I tried to just act confident, offer love but in a confident way - like I will choose to love you even though you're a wreck right now, and even though I am getting nothing in return - because that is the right thing to do and I am strong enough to do it. I did not convey neediness, desperation, despair, etc. At first that was sooo hard. I would get in my car and cry after. But then I actually started to feel some of the confidence and peace I had been "faking til I made it."

These things did work briefly. I did them faithfully for 2 months and got only coldness in return. I just kept a bright and sunny attitude whenever I saw him, acted totally unaffected by his rotten attitude. After 2 months of nothing, he did start to reach out to me a little, and things got better for a couple of months. He was suddenly the one reaching out to me, wanting to see me, talk to me, started initiating deeper conversations, etc. I did see a great deal of hope for awhile in there.

We took a turn for the worst, unfortunately. Partly my fault, but it is what it is. Partly the POSOW realized he still had something to go home to and that she wasn't gonna "win," so she suddenly wanted him again and was all over it. May or may not have made a long term difference if I had stayed the course better and not let her get to me. But I did see a difference for awhile.

So my two cents. Maybe that will help a bit, I don't know. Good luck.

TigerWes,

Absolutely no worries. It was partly my fault because I've been trying so hard to understand and implement Plan A recently and have been overly touchy. Sorry for being rude to you.

I welcome ANY advice whether it be praising or to give me a 2x4 beating to get me on track. I may not agree with some of the advice (ask MelodyLane) but I also understand that it is given because it is more than likely correct.

She is most definitely trying to justify. According to her lately, I'm the worst husband, father, friend and human on this planet. Those things hurt tremendously coming from the one that have loved and chose to spend the rest of my life with. Well, at least the person she used to be was who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

Actually, the ONLY issues that she talks about that are causing us to be where we are now is me. She NEVER talks about anything she's done being the cause or part of the cause of why we're here. She always says that "she has admitted that she made mistakes" but she always makes it sound like her being "emotionally neglected" is the main reason for all this.

Baloney I say to that!!!

She has even told me that she has tried to get to the point where she can forgive me so she could be able to move on. SERIOUSLY?

I think I may actually have some things to add to the thread on here that's about crazy things that come out of wayward mouths.

This is a very good point. When I was Plan A-ing, I would stop myself often and remind myself to do NOTHING that would give him any shred of evidence, any minute justification whatsoever that I really was the monster he wanted to build me into in his head. After a few weeks of total steadiness on my part, giving him no "fuel" as Tiger said, he started to behave differently. She WANTS to blame you for everything. Quietly disprove all that nonsense with your "lighthouse" approach.

Ignore all that garbage she says, Looking, just like you would ignore your 2-year-old throwing a tantrum for something ridiculous that you knew as a parent you could not allow. Just think, "Brain Drain," smile, and let it all go right past you.

rainy,

BrainHurts has been a tremendous source of advice for me already. I may see if she will answer some questions for me. I don't really know how appropriate it is to ask about someone else's experience. That gets kinds nosy. I may think on it before I go asking.

You mentioned that when your WH showed some interest in looking toward home again, the POSOW had a renewed interest in him. I had a buddy of mine warn me of that very thing. He told me that I need to think about the fact that people want something more when they have competition or when they think they can't have it. He said that I may find that the more I try to get the POSOM to leave my WW alone, the more he may try to NOT leave her alone.

I'm a little concerned about that because I feel like she has been pursuing him more than he has been pursuing her. When it comes right down to it, I really don't think he's gonna want someone who has all her "baggage". I think he's all about the physical part of it.

rainy,

I've been making a very conscious effort to do just that with the crap that comes from her. I have given in to that FAR too long.

Everyone here has helped me gain some control back in my life and my situation. That actually feels good for a change.

In some cases, maybe, but in most cases....NOT! Most POSOMs are just looking for some easy side action and prey on women's emotions to satisfy their sadistic carnal needs. Once you pounce on them, they scramble for cover.


See above. That why I said the other day I was more interested in his reaction to having his sorry [censored] hauled into court than what she thought about it.

TigerWes,

That does make me feel a little more at ease. I know some about this weasel and I don't think he's got what it takes OR the desire to be with her in any kind of meaningful relationship. I think (and hope) you nailed it on the head that he's gonna take off when he sees that all his personal info is gonna be subpoenaed.

Yep, he ain't gonna like that at all. I'm gonna be sitting over to the side with a HUGE smile on my face.

LFH, just make sure that huge grin is not in view of your wife. As difficult as it will be you must be sympathetic to her pain from withdrawal from her addiction to this POS. And it will be painful for her if it comes to that. I know it sucks to high heaven for you but thats where you are right now so you better learn to embrace it, and deal with it now.

If you want some Plan A tips then watch this movie. The acting sucks to high heaven but the message is extraordinarily powerful. The whole movie is online now so you can see it for free.

Are there signs of withdrawal that I can look for to know when she's entered that stage?

Isn't that described in the book Surviving An Affair? I need to go back and check because I don't want to miss ANY kind of clues or changes that might be relavent.

I'll also keep it in mind to just smile inside instead of outside.

That movie does have good ideas, Looking. Good suggestion. I think that is a real book too - "The Love Dare." Not positive, but I think I've seen it.

I think other men are less likely to want "something they can't have" when it comes to chasing down a married woman with little children, especially if she has a husband who's going to show some strength, stand up and fight for her, and not back down. I think Tiger's right and it's all about the fun and games. I think if OW's BH had stood up to my WH, he would have backed off. It's been a chest-beating ego trip for him because BH took the meek and mild approach and never stood up to him. When he did talk to him, he tried to be all calm and reasonable instead of telling him to haul his sorry a*s back home. I also think the OW would have gone running back home if she saw her BH grow a pair. I think she fell for all my WH's manly charms - he's real tough when no one stands up to him. Plus, he's been away from home for a year and a half, she still lives at home with her husband and kids. I think that's part of why it's lasted so long - it's all a great escape fantasy for my WH, there's no real life whatsoever. He doesn't really want to live with her and take on all her crap. He's said that himself. But as long as it's a free ride, all fun and games, while her husband is willing to shoulder all the bull, then why would he leave?

She is a narcissistic ego tripping controlling psychopath. Her own family has told me they think she's seriously mentally ill. She's been on a conquest to "win" from the get-go. Women are different, I think. If a woman like that feels challenged, she just gets more ticked off and manipulative. I think the men are more weenies. (Goodness, excuse all my foul language here). Even now, the last 5 months, my WH has totally "committed" to the OW (while she lives at home with her family), she gets all his time and attention, a good chunk of his money, vacations every other week - it's paradise. She's not content with that. She's been insisting he divorce me, WHILE SHE STAYS AT HOME WITH HER HUSBAND. She dictates messages (emails and texts) that he will send to me when he's with her. She tells him to come after me and demand to see kids he no longer cares about because she has figured out that's the one thing I really care about. I really think it has almost nothing to do with him, except that he's a puppet she can control and prove her dominance in causing pain to me and even my kids. She makes sure he spends every holiday, every birthday (yes, his kids' birthdays), ever special event for our family - with her. It's all about the conquest. She thought she'd won, so she was pretty much done. He started turning back toward me and our family, she realized I might "win" and that would make her look bad, and she was suddenly all over it again. Sick and wrong - bizarre. But she gets endless romance and vacations, money and spoiled rotten by 2 men. Another man doesn't get that. It's free sex, a free ride, and it's only fun til there's responsibility involved. I am quite certain that at the end of days, when she is left with his raggedy a*s, and I am long gone, when she has nothing to prove, no one to beat, no ego trip left, that she will disappear pretty quickly.

So sorry, didn't mean to thread jack you there, but I was trying to get the point across that I don't think you need to worry about that. Almost the opposite in fact.

Well, let's not jump the gun here. You need to get this affair (God I hate that word) busted up before you can think about withdrawal. Believe me though, you'll know it when, and if, it happens.

I do believe though when he gets those papers, the worm may turn a bit.

rainy,

No worries about threadjacking. You didn't at all. It actually helps me when I can hear about other situations from either side. I feel like I pick up at least one tidbit of very useful info from every post and story. So thank you for any kind of information you would like to post on this thread even if it's just something that is totally unrelated that you just need to say. Believe me, being able to post something on here no matter how relevant has helped me tremendously.

And don't worry about your "foul language" because if something is the truth...then it's the truth. Sometimes we have to say it like it is.

TigerWes,

I agree with you. I was just asking about some signs of withdrawal so I could be looking. I wasn't sure if the signs were subtle or obvious.

I also agree that I also think the POSOM will not want to hang around at all when he gets my "request" for all his records.

Can't wait!!!