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1. I am a betrayer who doesn't want to be oddly silent.
2. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" leaves no room for shades of gray.
3. Keep reading and posting. You can get help here if you really want it !!!
me: FWW/BW
Married 20 years, 4 kids
We made it.
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People on this board have a lot of wisdom but I don't come here to be straightened out by the likes of you. Suppose if you don't like this board you just don't come here, okay?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Actually I have ended the affair and taken responsibility for the infidelity, as well as a lot of other things that damaged our marriage before it and that are more important to me personally. I have looked for "cheaters" testimony but if it is here, it is obscured or I have not looked hard enough, feel free to steer me to relevant posts. It is a lonely experience.
I do not have a double standard, had my wife been unfaithful to me, this would still be insignificant to me compared to the "love crimes" we may have committed against one another in our unhappy marriage. But I ablame myself first, don't worry. Quit wasting your time on the forum. You obviously did not read the Basic Concepts, even though when you signed up for the forum you agreed to do so. Please don't post again until you've received a basic education: Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts (12 articles) Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know (30 minute video) How to Survive Infidelity (30 articles) Here's the thing: you can read and watch all of this and find out if this site has anything to offer you. If so, you can come back here and talk about what you read. If not, you don't have to come back! As far as you trying to straighten the rest of us out and let us know what we and this board are missing, we are actually quite happy, thank you, and don't feel like we need or want your help.  We will be quite happy after you are gone; we will also be quite happy to help you through what Dr. Harley's plans have to offer, if you decide it would benefit you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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People on this board have a lot of wisdom but they do not see things in shades of gray, What, are you an eye doctor, or something? Are you just out of anything to do? Are you here to get help, or to help a bunch of clueless people post to the Internet better? Are we wrong and it really bugs you? http://xkcd.com/386/
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I am sorry to have been unclear. I do not believe I possess any special wisdom or much wisdom at all. I am aware of the harm I have inflicted on my spouse. I guess my post was of the "woe is me" variety. I don't think everyone has the blessing of clarity and unambivalence that you do. If someone happily divorces after an affair, are they still a cheater, for example, or did they "come to their senses". I had an affair in the context of an unhappy marriage. I guess I asked my original question because in the midst of my double-grief, for some reason I wondered if I could have reacted the same way to the other woman if I had been happy, or if it was unique to my moment of unhappiness. But I would be much happier if I did have the shelter of dishonesty to myself. Even my wife acknoweldges that without the affiar, we would have been doomed. And please don't take that as a defense of anything. Does everything have to have a moral valence? So what are you and your BW doing to affair proof your marriage?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I am sorry to have been unclear. I do not believe I possess any special wisdom or much wisdom at all. I am aware of the harm I have inflicted on my spouse. I guess my post was of the "woe is me" variety. I don't think everyone has the blessing of clarity and unambivalence that you do. If someone happily divorces after an affair, are they still a cheater, for example, or did they "come to their senses". I had an affair in the context of an unhappy marriage. I guess I asked my original question because in the midst of my double-grief, for some reason I wondered if I could have reacted the same way to the other woman if I had been happy, or if it was unique to my moment of unhappiness. But I would be much happier if I did have the shelter of dishonesty to myself. Even my wife acknoweldges that without the affiar, we would have been doomed. And please don't take that as a defense of anything. Does everything have to have a moral valence? Do you have the book SAA? Have you read these? A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts How To Survive An Affair
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Even my wife acknoweldges that without the affiar, we would have been doomed. And please don't take that as a defense of anything. Does everything have to have a moral valence? If your marriage survives the affair, it won't be because of the affair, it will be because of the actions you both took afterwards. An affair cannot save a marriage because it is the most destructive thing that can happen to a marriage. An affair is profoundly destructive and is as traumatic as a physical assualt or rape on its victims. What you did to your wife is as traumatic as rape, do you realize that? I am not sure what your last sentence means ["moral valence"] but yes, adultery is a moral issue. It is immoral.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I don't think everyone has the blessing of clarity and unambivalence that you do. One of the things we do here is to try to help impart that blessing to others, so that they can stop woe is me'ing and learn how to move on to a happy life.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Does everything have to have a moral valence? bres, it sounds like you're moving into lecturing, here. I suggest you call that off. It's unproductive for you, plus it looks just a little hypocritical to lecture people about whether or not it is appropriate for them to lecture you about whether or not your actions are appropriate. You know?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I am sorry to have been unclear. I do not believe I possess any special wisdom or much wisdom at all. I am aware of the harm I have inflicted on my spouse. I guess my post was of the "woe is me" variety. I don't think everyone has the blessing of clarity and unambivalence that you do. If someone happily divorces after an affair, are they still a cheater, for example, or did they "come to their senses". I had an affair in the context of an unhappy marriage. I guess I asked my original question because in the midst of my double-grief, for some reason I wondered if I could have reacted the same way to the other woman if I had been happy, or if it was unique to my moment of unhappiness. But I would be much happier if I did have the shelter of dishonesty to myself. Even my wife acknoweldges that without the affiar, we would have been doomed. And please don't take that as a defense of anything. Does everything have to have a moral valence? Do you need any kind of help at all? Why are you here? To debate academic questions like "Can affairs ever occur in the context of a happy marriage?" Can you send your wife here? Maybe she could use some of the help we offer.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I should have written, does everything have a moral valence every moment? Sometimes I like to give my tired conscience a rest. Is that another way of asking "is an affair always wrong"? The answer it that yes it is, and you should never give your conscience a rest. Where would be be without our consciences?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I should have written, does everything have a moral valence every moment? Sometimes I like to give my tired conscience a rest. Mine seems just fine as long as I am not violating it. Maybe you should try that? The last thing you need is a conscience that is asleep because it is your warning system that something is wrong. It is like your burglar alarm. You might not like hearing the alarm go off, but the alternative would be much worse. Your conscience is your friend when you are in good standing and your worst enemy when you are not. People who are in affairs are giving their conscience a rest. That is not a good thing, obviously.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I should have written, does everything have a moral valence every moment? Sometimes I like to give my tired conscience a rest. But I swear, not lecturing anyone. I am sorry. The thing about lecturing is that it's in the eye of the beholder! But I'm with MelodyLane, I still don't know what a moral valence is. And I'm also with SugarCane, your conscience is a vital part of your psyche and is there to tell you important things, so it probably shouldn't be ignored.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Valence (psychology)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Valence (disambiguation).
Valence, as used in psychology, especially in discussing emotions, means the intrinsic attractiveness (positive valence) or aversiveness (negative valence) of an event, object, or situation.[1] However, the term is also used to characterize and categorize specific emotions. For example, the emotions popularly referred to as "negative", such as anger and fear, have "negative valence". Joy has "positive valence". Positively valenced emotions are evoked by positively valenced events, objects, or situations. The term is also used about the hedonic tone of feelings, affect, certain behaviors (for example, approach and avoidance), goal-attainment or -non-attainment, and conformity with or violation of norms. Ambivalence can be viewed as conflict between positive and negative valence-carriers.[citation
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I was not lecturing. I asked a question. I apologize if I gave any other impression.
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I am sorry to have been unclear. I do not believe I possess any special wisdom or much wisdom at all. I am aware of the harm I have inflicted on my spouse. I guess my post was of the "woe is me" variety. I don't think everyone has the blessing of clarity and unambivalence that you do. If someone happily divorces after an affair, are they still a cheater, for example, or did they "come to their senses". I had an affair in the context of an unhappy marriage. I guess I asked my original question because in the midst of my double-grief, for some reason I wondered if I could have reacted the same way to the other woman if I had been happy, or if it was unique to my moment of unhappiness. But I would be much happier if I did have the shelter of dishonesty to myself. Even my wife acknoweldges that without the affiar, we would have been doomed. And please don't take that as a defense of anything. Does everything have to have a moral valence? I've read what you've written, several times. I can see no reference to any marriage building efforts at all. If you are in an unhappy marriage, it is because you are doing a combination of 2 things. 1. You are not meeting each other's important ENs. 2. You are doing things that make each other unhappy. Combine these common marriage mistakes and you have 2 people with seriously low love bank balances. Do you have a MB related question we may help you with?
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I was not lecturing. I asked a question. I apologize if I gave any other impression. Yes, here is your question: Can affairs ever occur in the context of a happy marriage? Strangely, this has nothing what-so-ever to do with your personal situation of an unhappy marriage. Perhaps a more relevant question might be: "I need help/suggestions/advice about repairing my unhappy marriage after my infidelity."
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I was not lecturing. I asked a question. I apologize if I gave any other impression. What are you and your BW doing to affair proof your marriage?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I am cautious about asking too much. I am "the cheater". Anyone with the sincere desire to learn & implement MB to improve their marriage is very welcome here. Infidels who are not remorseful usually don't like what they hear here. They will usually exit with a "good-bye cruel world" post to all of us which includes telling us how bitter/resentful/close minded we are. Most of these GBCW posts are pretty mundane. You have not walked a mile in my shoes. You cannot judge me. You think you're perfect. You're all bitter. You're all angry. You all think in black and white. You all think you are morally superior.  People on this board have a lot of wisdom but they do not see things in shades of gray Please, reassure us you are not referencing that current best seller book of erotica. You're not, are you? 
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Actually I have ended the affair and taken responsibility for the infidelity, In what way have you done this? Have you confessed the affair to the OW's significant other? Written a NC letter? Why don't you get off the philosophizing thing and get down to brass tacks? We're more about working with tools than examining our belly buttons and trying to validate poor behavior (which, if you're honest with yourself, you knew was poor at the time). What have you done to recover your marriage?
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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