CNB,

You're in excellent hands, my friend.
Where is that Icon where we bow down to Queen PEP?







Will this suffice?

Pay no attention to Brain.
She has apparently gone off the deeeeeeep end and is now completely INSANE

Good Evening

Well here it goes - Part IV of my dilemma.

Initially - I'm happy in one way - and frustrated in another. Seems like I will never know the truth. Almost like a "get out of jail card" - but where do you go?

-------

I hesitate to post too many identifying information because I did send the boy all of these articles about the devastating and long reaching effects of adultery from this site - and supposedly his mom found the letter and probably everything else. I even had the nerve to highlight sentences in the articles -- and -- one article in particular - something like "The Sea of Stress" in dealing with infidelity. That article mentioned just about everything I as going through --!!

----------------

So on that note --

My husband and I actually work in the same school now. For 2 years - and a year prior to this - we walked everyday together during our lunch break.

So he was stuck with me and I grilled him. I gave him different articles to read - and then we would discuss them. I wanted him to know how "normal" people reacted to this situation and that EVERYTHING I was going through was normal.
In the beginning - I cried my way through every discussion.

I made him answer the same questions over and over trying to see if he would change the script. At times he would get upset and impatient - but I wanted the truth.

I wanted to know did he have a relationship with her. Did he take her out - did he spend money on her.

He said the total time he knew her (she was a co-worker) - when we were separated - he had sex with her twice. In the back of his van. Until she looked him up during the funeral.
that was the third and last time.

He never dated her - he didn't date anybody. She was just a piece of [censored]. She was just a [censored]. She knew she wasn't going anywhere in life - she joined the military - and left.
They never called or wrote each other. He forgot about her. By this time we were back together and starting a family.

The one thing I did NOT do was let him "just come back to me." He had to work at it. Really work to get my trust back. He wanted back in - in October and I made him wait until the Xmas holidays - 1977. Our first child October, 1978.

We wanted to move closer to my school and his family - so we bought the 2nd house and moved in in June - 1980.

We needed his salary and mine to qualify for the house (and keep it) - so he kept his job at his old school and stayed during the week - home on weeks. In the meantime he was applying to schools closer to our home.

That September - 1980 was the month we started this living arrangement. The OC was born May - 1981. I did one of these conception/birth things and concluded that he had to have had sex with her the beginning of September. Right out the door.

The good news for me was that she had been away and came back for the grandmother's funeral and looked him up - and then went right back. the boy was born in Hawaii and lived there for several years (he told me this - as well as his birth date - because I asked). The Mom apparently got married right away to the other smuck. So I know there was no relationship there. (Probably because she was in the military and they have adultery laws).

I forgot to mention in this that my husband said when she first called him - before he spoke to the boy the first time - she asked him to please act like he had a relationship with her because she did not want him - her son - to think badly of her. He said he told her all he could do was to tell the truth if he asks.

So - fast forward to December - 2011. Every time I had a question - during an opportune time - I would ask. I really tried not to "love bust".

I was marveling that she only had the ONE child. Married twice - other relationships according to her. Yet - she only had the ONE child. And she never contacted you. One child by one man - and no contact for 30 years. It wasn't plausible to me.

He hesitated - (I had already had the 'lie by omission" talk with him after the 2nd "contact" revelation) he said truthfully - she contacted him twice (my 3rd shock and trauma moment). That about 2 or 3 years she came back to his school, with her toddler son to visit old friends - found him - laughed and said "he could be your son." He said he laughed back at her - because he took it as a joke -- said "no way - don't even joke about something like that" - and walked away.

Then the 2nd contact - she looked him up and called his current school to say her son wanted to meet him - this must have been when she told him at age 16 that his "father" was NOT his father and that my husband was. This had to be around 1997 or so. He said he told her that he did not believe her son was his and that he would have to take a paternity test before he would do anything. He didn't know where she was and did not ask. If she thinks that this boy is his - she would have to arrange for the test. He said he never heard from her again - until she called him in 2010 - right before his 29th birthday.

When my husband first told me the story back on 8/13/2010 - I said there had to be a significance to the timing. Initially - my husband didn't even ask about the birthday - only the age. I wanted the birth date so I did ask. The timing - the kid turned 29 - disillusioned with life and asked him mom to make contact. I guess they thought since he is now older - that paternity would not be questioned. WRONG!!

Finally - my dilemma - -

Trickle truth - AGAIN - !! He did KNOW - somewhere in the back of his mind - that the possibility was there. For 30 years!!

After finding out initially and going through my first wave of grief -- I remember thanking my husband for not "RUINING" my summer. He waited until we were back at work - probably to keep me occupied because he knows how I obsess with things.

I looked back to 30 years ago - 18 months toddler, new house, living away from home - freedom. So much freedom - you're stupid. Old "f" buddy comes to town - here for limited time - gets some free [censored] - she goes back across the country - who would know? I was so obsessed - I looked up various types of infidelity. I concluded - "Opportunity" - yeah - Opportunity Sex.

In the meantime - I am a voracious reader - all my life. Books were my pacifiers. Swear to God - I never left home without a book.

My thought process is now so messed up - I can't concentrate. The types of books I enjoyed - The hundreds - thousands of books I read and enjoyed - are now so close to home that I get upset with all the cheating and drama. I didn't read a book for over a year - and that was when we were on vacation. I haven't read a book since last summer.

Now I'm hooked with reading these threads. When I run across a particular thread that relates to me - I would read the entire thread.

In the meantime - my husband has been and still is a very good husband. We had/have our ups and downs - I am not shy and retiring. I can be an "in your face" person. Sometimes I'm thankful that I knew nothing of this situation earlier.

What I can't wrap my mind around is "why did he tell me now? Why didn't he insist on the paternity test before involving me? I would rather not know - and still don't know.

My outlook on life - people - my marriage - people's respect for us - the value of coming from families with "good names" - all of that has changed. I feel like a hypocrite. That what I perceived as my good life is a lie.

Yet it's not. Not really. Just my thoughts. My sisters brag on my husband to theirs. He is VERY helpful around the house - always. Cleans up the kitchen every night (he is a jock) buys me nice jewelry - attentive - sits with me - travel together constantly - nothing like what I read in most of these treads.

Honestly - because I thought my marriage was so exceptional after our rocky intervals - I had so much PRIDE in our accomplishments, children and marriage. Now I think about how shameful this is - what people would think and say about this if it got out. I DO value what people think about me - and anybody who knows me - knows how I am and what I am about.

But - the man is a good man - and has been good to me, our children, and our families. He kept this away from me all these years.

By the way - I'm probably a basket case because I NEVER ONCE mentioned this to ANYONE. Not even my sister - my best friend. My husband also offered to go to counseling if I wanted. That was back in the beginning after he saw the grief that I endured over this.

I thought my thought process would be better by now - but Pep found me out.

So here I am. Obsessed with reading and comparing stores of adultery to my saga. Realizing yet again - how blessed and lucky I am that it played out over the years the way that it did.

So - What is my problem?



Can Not Believe

Have your husband take a polygraph. If he hid a suspected child for 30 years, your "problem" is likely wondering what else he is hiding.

This is exactly what I was going to say.
Also, start doing the MB program. Especially POJA/PORH and no love-busting.
Sounds like you both meet each other's ENs most of the time.

You may want to consider getting the online program.
You may want to consider calling the radio program.
You may want to consider getting phone marriage coaching from MB.

Then, once that is out of the way .... you have all the pieces of the puzzle.
Then, you stop the obsession.

Are you happy, CNB?

Replace the affair obsession (once you have all the pieces) with a healthy MB obsession.

I advise you to tell your best friend/sister.
Have her swear to put this in the vault.

Tell her you only need her comfort/support.
Tell her how great your marriage is.
Tell her how this has become an obsession.
Tell her your plan is to stop obsessing so you can enjoy your life.
Because, you have a good life.

Why do I say this? Because you wrote ........


Of course, there is this ........


To whom have you knowingly and deliberately lied?
Who did you knowingly and deliberately deceive?

<~~~ Bad girl Pep

Maybe I am the obsessive one!
Shall we have a contest?

Letting you know, I was at least as obsessive as you for the first 2-3 years.
Now my obsession is helping others help themselves create their sweet spot in life.
Still married, or not.

I think you should stay married, and develop yourself into a MB vet !!!!!!!!

Here you go.
Polygraph Testing

Hello

Okay - Me again.

Thanks to everybody for their suggestions. I wish to say straight off - PEP - you are so ASTUTE. It seems like you have my number. I actually read this forum this morning - and had a reflective day all day - before I answered it. Your observations and questions actually made tears come to my eyes. The kind of tears that just well up because someone is maybe getting it. Reflecting on our history - the beginning.

In my gut - knowing my husband - there is no way - right now - that I would request a polygraph test from him. The bad of that would severely outweigh the good.

Why? - if you get bored - drop down to the ending.

So - PEP

I believe in order to understand an individual - you must KNOW the individual. You MUST know the details. I actually had to analyze myself in my Masters program.

Pep - I AM obsessive-compulsive. However - mine is more personality than disorder. A BIG difference. That is mostly a GOOD thing (because I mostly succeed in my endeavors and attain success because of it)- but sometimes a bad thing (I don't know when to leave good enough - alone).

The good - I was always a good student. Honors - dean list high school and college. Why ? - my quest for details and understanding why something is. I would research until my questions were answered. First grade on - I was ALWAYS a voracious reader. I actually made extra money in college writing research papers for various students in different fields - from music to economics.

The Bad - when I don't get a quick easy answer - I get bogged down in the little details and lose time and focus in other things. This - About me - I know.

I have a undergrad degree in Bus Ed (Marketing - Accounting) - Masters in Ed (Psychology and Guidance Counseling k-12) Post Master's degree (- not leading to doctorate - in Computer Technology).

I was always interested in WHY people do WHAT they do. When my husband left me the 2nd time for 8 - MONTHS - I had already started the process of enrollment to go back to school for a degree in Psychology - concentrating on Family and Marital Counseling.

Getting back together and having a child changed that.

My husband had to pursue me in the beginning. Remember - I was engaged to a man that got my one-time high school BEST friend pregnant. I found out about that pregnancy 4 years later. We got engaged the end of my freshman year.

I could not stand my husband when I first met him. He was just a good-looking cocky football jock. His freshmen roommate was one of my high school classmates (1st - 12th grade). He actually ASKED me to PLEASE be nice to his roommate because he liked me. I didn't like his cocky attitude.

Anyway - my husband knows my character because we were just friends for more than a year - but I would not have any "romantic" interludes with him because I was engaged. Because I was a good student - for 3 - semesters - he scheduled all of his education classes with mine. Of course I ended up doing most of the course work - but he got to know my character and knew that I was a good and supportive friend. We spent a lot of time together. When I found out about the baby - I dropped the fiance - and our deepening friendship began. Which later lead to an elopement.

Why? Looking back and analyzing - He was an exceptional football player. He was a SUPER JOCK athlete in high school - BIG TIME - STATE RECORDS in FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL. He had the Pros looking at him since his sophomore year. College football scholarship (and 3rd generation student -- maternal grandfather - both parents graduated from that university - as well as 8 aunts and uncle from his mom's side - and 1 aunt from his dads side)

Well - his junior year - my senior - in football practice - some guy (who years later actually KILLED his wife)- ran AGAINST a play - and managed to fracture my husband's ankle so bad - he had to actually stay in bed AND traction for over 2 weeks. Then of course 8 plus weeks in a cast and crutches. Well - that was the end of his "PRO" football aspirations.

I recognized early on that one of his needs was for me to respect and admire him. He wanted my approval because I displayed a "disdain" for good-lucking-cocky" athletic types.

It was his idea to marry now. I think he probably thought I would somehow hook back up to the cheating fiance. He probably knew his football career was curtailed - and I was his supported and confidant.

Anyway - those are the details.

Pep

Why do I perceive myself as a hypocrite. ?

Through the years - a lot of people have come to me for advise. I always utilize my psychology background in analyzing why something is. I believe in problem solving by mediating and negotiating. Then I like to GIVE advise. Not GUIDE you to the answer - but my impatience and insight is such that I "just want to tell you - and move on." That's why I am NOT a good counselor. I am TOO straight forward. I feel too intensely whatever I'm feeling for that situation.

In college during my masters program - I was actually a Hotline Crisis Counselor for 3 semesters as a part of my psychology internship. My master's thesis centered the psychology of sexual attitudes in the college freshmen. I was published and everything.

How can I listen and advise if my own stuff is messed up?

2. My Sister

I love the girl like a twin - but she can be known as the town crier in the family. In my opinion - given how she respects and brags to other people what a great guy my husband is (she's impressed with all he does around the house and his landscaping skills) - she would be SO disillusioned - I don't think this is something she can keep to herself. She would have to tell at least "one person." A month - year - five years - human nature tells me she would have to tell at last "one" person. So - to keep the secret - Keep the secret.

What she DOES know and agree with - is my feelings about this subject matter.

3. Polygraph

This is my feelings on this. Unless and Until something else POPS up - I would not go down the polygraph route.

Why ?

Given all the things my husband has done (actions) that truly involved thinking ahead - MONEY - time - and energy - too reassure me of his dedication and love - to bring a "polygraph" request to the table would be like busting him in the nose AND knocking out his teeth at the same time.

My ability to "look around the corner" and to "anticipate likely responses" would be to cut off MY nose to Spite my face if I did that.

Honestly - I can list scores of things from the top of my head what he has done to reassure me.

Things from today - last weekend - last year. I'll only list two for now: One of the first things he did - he did after he noticed me twisting and starring at my wedding bands: We were in Sam's - he said let's go look at the jewelry. Me - Like - sure - okay. He said I want to you to pick any ring you want - and every time you look at it - you'll know that I love you - I'm sorry for hurting you. It was not worth it. And you'll never get rid of me. You'll never to have to worry about me again."

I picked out what I wanted and the ring had to be special made and he gave it to me for Thanksgiving.

The following March (2011) was my 60th birthday. I found out the Thursday before the Saturday (my birthday actually fell on a Saturday) he stayed home that Friday (that's why he had to tell me)- had made arrangements with a party planner - who cleaned and decorated the house - organized the banquet - including a HUGH buffet and oyster/crab roast. PLUS gave me a set of diamond stud earrings called growing studs - that for every special occasion - we can replace it for an additional 1/2 caret (special fee of course) until I got it as large as I wanted.

So - that's just two things out of so many more I can recount instantly.

The thing is " I really feel he is remorseful." We have such an intertwined history that goes so far back - that I know he knows he has a LOT to lose. I NEVER had by reason or hint to think that he was living a double life - like I've read about so many times. I really feel there was no Long Term Affair. No relationship there.

My Obsessive Personality

CWMI is totally correct.

The pieces of the puzzle. I will probably never know the whole story. Since I never spoke to her - Have no idea how she looks - she is just a phantom in my life that tried to make herself a real entity.

Since I will NEVER give her the satisfaction of even acknowledging her - and given how everything has played out -
all I can say is that if I find out any more "additional" information about this situation - then that WILL open the door for requesting a polygraph.

So - this is what happens when you engage someone with an obsessive-compulsive personality. We are all about the DETAILS - which can bore you to death. That's why my husband operates under the premise of "don't get her started" cause once she gets a whiff, it's over.

On that note - I apologize for the length of this and thanks for all of your responses.

Pep - I know - the obsessiveness - I have to replace it with a more healthier version. I still recognize that I do have a problem with it.

Can Not Believe

If you are OCD, all the more reason for a polygraph. I am sure your husband does not want to be married to someone who always questions. So, get the answers.

Please just require it.

Can_Not_Believe,

What ever happened with the "legal father" of OC? Was he ever told that OC might not be his. If your H is the biological father then your H owes this person an apology, and a Thank You for raising his child and paying for his room and board. Weather the OW or OC are good people has nothing to do with that BHs right to the truth.

I find it difficult to believe that after all your H has done that he would not volunteer to take the Polygraph without even being asked.

God Bless
Gamma

I asked you the following questions regarding hypocrisy ...


You responded ... (while ignoring the questions)


I guess you will be a far better counselor after this! You become a person with richer life seasonings. Once you've personally lived through a tragedy or a demanding situation, you become far more qualified to help others. You develop empathy no one can ever learn from a book. This is why we are all here for each other.

You & I are quite alike in many ways. You also remind me a little of of DancesWithGoats (a MB poster).

One way in which you & I differ is when giving advice I like to use the "guide" approach, unless I perceive the situation as critical. I'm pretty sneaky. I guide by asking questions, so be careful

You're not a hypocrite just because your life's journey has not been constructed with pristine perfection. I imagine your advice, while hurried and impatient, was excellent & sound. Sorry Charlie, you don't meet the standard of hypocrite .... yet!

If I owned a business, I'd hire one or two OCD'ers , deliberately. Then, I'd take advantage of their inability to overlook minor details.

Take it easy on yourself. A perfectionist is not the gold standard around here. We prefer the flaws to show. That way we can make fun of you .... AKA like you more.

Let's say your H has 2 choices.

Choice #1 - take a polygraph one time and then it is DONE

Choice #2 - live the next 25 years with a woman distracted by her obsessions

I wonder ........ If H came to understand that the poly is to settle YOU down, smooth YOUR feathers, maybe he'd take it like a man in love ?? Maybe buying you gifts is not the way to POJA this dilemma over your obsession?

Think it over.

Hello Can_Not_Believe,

I have not had time to post on MB much in the past few months but a friend pointed your thread out to me. First, I want to say that you are extremely BLESSED to have my dear friend Pep posting to you. Pep was the first poster here on MB to help put me on the path to eventually healing.

Just a brief history because my story is long and spread far and wide across MB. My DH had affair #2 in 2004 which led to the birth of an OC in February 2005. When I initially learned OW was pregnant my heart went out to this child. I wanted contact, of course this is the "right" thing isn't it? As the A continued despite my DH saying it was over and as the OW began to make plans to replace me in my DH's family and stalked me to get me to leave him, I began to see why NC was best. I didn't want this OW in my life and especially in the lives of my children.

I found out later my H was seeing the OC (and the OW) behind my back. I was devastated. I found out more and more trickle truth for months and months and months to the point of driving me into a deep depression. I chose to stay in the M to protect my children from being exposed to the OW. The miracle was that my DH transformed into the amazing man he is today and I have to give full credit to God for this transformation. Unfortunately the fall out is we have weekly visitation with the OC since my DH already had the relationship with this child. I knew staying in the M meant accepting OC.

It has been 3 years and I still have trouble telling people who OC really is. If they are strangers I let them think he is my child. Only very close family, our church and a few friends know the truth. It is a great source of embarrasment and shame for me so I understand why you feel the way you do. It has nothing to do with being highly regarded in your community or having others look up to you. It has been such a difficult and painful journey for my entire family and has caused problems with my daughter and DH's relationship. OC's visits are difficult because the clock resets each week with behavior issues. Maybe if we had started sooner, maybe if my H didn't continue the A for so long, maybe if we had bonded with this child when he was a baby....maybe maybe...but the truth is these situations no matter the good intentions are painful and difficult for everyone involved.

I was left with PTSD symptoms after all the years of lies and the OW stalking my every move and my MIL's betrayal of me. If it were not for the amazing transformation of my DH and the fact that my youngest is very disabled and needs both of us, I would not have stayed married.

So my message to you...you made the right decision to keep this young man out of your lives. Even IF DNA proved him to be your husband's child, he is not his "father". There is no need to upset yourself, your marriage and your COM simply because some people think this is the "right" thing to do. I would go further though and tell your husband that you will not accept him having any more contact with this young man and especially with the xOW. There has been enough lies by ommission to take years for the trust to be rebuilt.

Remember this as well...it is not our shame to carry. All people sin, all people fail at some point in their lives. Anyone that judges your decision has not walked in your shoes and does not know your pain.

Love this, dear friend. Right on the money.

Wow -

Good evening everybody. Thank you "SO MUCH" for your responses and insight.

Once again - in an effort to "control" my obsessive thoughts about this situation - I read responses this morning - and reflected all day on what I read. I have always been a "thinker."

PEP - I consider you a "GURU". I am in awe, and I bow down - - holding my head up - always looking into your eyes.

Why?

Because "knowledge IS power." And you always respect wisdom. I love talking to the "old folks" - because they have lived it - experienced it.

On that note - I am headed to a "WAKE" - my 2nd best friend from high school whose older sister died.

PEP - I've been known to get really "deep" - so I will reflect
some more - and see where my thoughts lead me.

Take care all!!

Can Not Believe

Now you understand my earlier post of telling you that Pep is One of the Queens and we all bow down.

The only reason why I'm losing my brains and it hurts is because I bow down to the Queen and she kicks me in the head!!

I'm so glad you're part of the MB family CNB.

Hello

Thanks for all your responses. To answer your question - initially I did question him constantly. But I had found this site by then. I read the love busting articles. I applied the principles. I would say by October (2010) - I made it a point not to bring it up everyday. And only during our walks. I tried to keep it out of my home. I wanted HOME to be a safe place for the both of us. I know the value of the IMPORTANCE of how you approach something. I even timed when I would bring something up.

Earlier on - I gave him an article about how the betrayed will occasionally bring up the affair weeks - months - or years - and how it could still effect them.

My husband even mentioned that it was a good thing I gave him the article - so he had no leg to stand on when I did. See - it was NORMAL behavior in cases like this. Including the questioning over -and over.

The marriage building concepts DID help me handle this. Especially reading the Infidelity forums.

Can Not Believe

So no - I didn't bring it up ALL the TIME. I THOUGHT it all the time. But after the initial blow

Hello Gamma

Your questions are very valid.

The truth from my side is "I DON'T know. I don't know whatever happened with the "legal father." To my knowledge, the OW was stationed in Hawaii - came home for grandma's funeral - had a hit and run with my husband - went back.

What I can tell you - from questioning my husband initially - that she told him in the initial 2010 contact - that as soon as she got back to Hawaii she knew she was pregnant. She was dating this guy - and I am assuming she told him the baby was his. I don't know - really - but I THINK that if you are unmarried and get pregnant in the military - you are automatically discharged (I've never researched it for a fact).

This guy was also in the military. They got married. It was the son who told me that the father was abusive to the mother. That the mother told him when he was 16 that this man was NOT his father - and my husband was.

I only had the ONE conversation with him. I never had a chance to ask if the MAN knew or HOW he knew. I know my husband said when he went to the OC's house - there was a family picture of the OW, OC, And this man. That when he saw the picture - he felt the boy favored the other man - mostly from the shape of the head.

I felt bad the man. I have two boys. Currently 33 - 29. They are NOT married and no kids. I have ALWAYS told them - WATCH OUT for certain types of women - and - you DON'T know what type of woman this is -- SO -- Never TRUST birth control from the woman. They CAN and WILL tell you anything. Always take responsibility for protecting yourself. And - this was YEARS before any of this came to light for me. I just knew of people dealing with overwhelming child support problems and I DID NOT WANT THAT FOR MY BOYS.

I even discussed with my husband in the beginning of this - the outrage I felt that any woman would do that - pawn off a child to the wrong man. Like - "What kind of person will do that?

So - in my opinion - having NO idea who the man is OR what he knows. I feel the OW owes the man that apology. In my one conversation with the boy - I asked for his birth date and his full name. When he said "XXXX XX XXXX, III.

I remember saying - THE III - wow!! He said "yeah" - I know what you mean."

So what he knows? (the man) - who he is? - where he is? - Is he even ALIVE? - I have no idea. Remember - this was 1980 - 81. At that time - 30 years ago. Given the circumstances - At this point - "What would - should I do?".

PEP did ask me a question that I am going to address in a tread to her, which is "AM I HAPPY?. My husband has done everything and beyond to show his remorse for this. He tries hard. He has no idea the extent of how this still bothers me. He knows I spend a lot of time on the computer. But - that's my job. We get along - we have such a long history together - mostly good - and we enjoy each others company. We do things together all the time. He would have no idea why the question of a polygraph would even come up. TRUST me on that.

No PEP read me - my problem IS my obsessive - compulsive personality for the WHYS of doing what I do.

Can Not Believe



The polygraph