For years on MB is has been written that the state of the marriage is the fault of the BS not meeting the WS needs. The choice to have an affair due to needs not being met was made by the WS. The blame was on the WS for responding the wrong way to not having those needs met.

Bad state of marriage due to BS not meeting needs and even WS not meeting needs as well.

Blame for affair on the person that chose to have an affair.

Always worked for me.

I see Dr Harley ...."Dr. H states that the BH should "take full responsibility, which is a hard thing to do. It�s hard to say 'its my fault you are having the affair.'� He added that this is a "Plan A message.".... now using the strategy of having the BS throwing the WS a bone to get the WS on board with the start of recovery.

Like calling a used car a previously owned car.

Yes a BS needs to be called to task for not meeting their WS needs. The BS must learn the WS needs and to meet them. There is no other way to recover their marriage and make the new marriage better then their old marriage.

Talk about the BS having to do the heavy lifting. Dr H's "take full responsibility" has just made the BS load a lot heavier.

The BS did not put a gun to the WS and force them to bang the OP.

I don't like analogies because usually their are too many loop wholes. Because the bank does not want to loan you the money.
Banks don't have to give anyone money. One is not born with the right to get money. Right to try to earn money. And, having that right does not guarantee that you will earn enough money.

There is no way to justify robbing a bank.

Another phrase Just Compensation. An affair can not be undone. The WS can not un SF the OP. Yes marriages can be recovered but that phrase does not work for me.

You steal $10 you give it back. That's Just Compensation.

OP used your WS and lets you have the WS back. That's not Just Compensation. Time that WS spent on OP and denied to the BS can never be given back.

Some people just can't GET analogies and I am not surprised you fall in that category, TheRoad. The rest of your post makes absolutely no sense so I won't even attempt to untangle.

The Road,

I think you also see the mistake in what he said on the recording. I am glad I am not alone.

I am still learning about MB concepts. Part of that entails analyzing what the MB message is. If the message is a BS has responsibility for creating the state of the marriage in which the WS chose to commit adulatory, I would agree. In fact, I repeatedly admitted to my W my responsibility for such actions.

Subsequently she admitted that the A began much earlier than she had originally admitted (yes, TT). She then admitted that it began at a time when she was not unhappy with our marriage and she admitted that the start of the affair was all her fault. For weeks before this she had repeatedly claimed the A was not all her fault and I had been agreeing, but also stressing that I was not trying to talk about fault. I had asked about other things, like what EN the A had met, so I could try to better meet the EN. I again repeat I still was not perfect at the time it started, far from it, and had I been a better man and husband she might, and I do mean might, have spurred her old boy friend's advances, and not engaged in what she now calls a "curiosity kiss," which lead to "curiosity" adulterous fxxking with a married OM, who was also a parent.

However, if part of MB's concepts is, as Dr. said on the recording, that an A is the BS's fault and that the BS should say this to the WS as part of a Plan A message, then I think this part of MB's concepts is wrong and needs improving.

So Mel, can you please answer the question I raised above: are you telling me that you view an affair as being the "fault" of the BS?

I think I have repeatedly seen members here urge people to read and listen to what Dr. H said or wrote and I have been doing so. I bought and read two of his books, one of which, SAA, desperately needs revisions (as mentioned above it does not address exposure). BTW what ever happened to the Sue and Jon in the book? Anyway, when I do look at his words Mel, herself, confirms that some of them were ill-chosen and lead to misunderstandings.

Dr Harley mentioned Sue and Jon on a recent show. He said they have a loving marriage to this day.

As for responsibility of affairs, the person commiting the act is responsible.

ML, I have given you my answer.....numerous times. For some reason you are STUCK on this question to the detriment of working on your marriage. I am not stuck on it, however, and don't come here to answer the same question over and over again. That is a time waster to me. I have posted Dr Harley's explanation, if you have further questions then send him an email.

I so agree with this post, TheFlowerMom.

No we are not quite on the same page.

It was stated in the past that the bad state of the marriage was the fault of the BS 50% WS 50% for not meeting EN's.

That the blame for the affair was the 100% WS fault.

Now Dr H is saying that the BS needs to say to their WS that the BS's neglect of the WS caused the affair.

I can see Dr H saying that and will say it the way I said it before, the BS is throwing the WS a bone to get the WS on board with recovery.

Dr H is about getting marriages recovered. I see this change in the way he does things to increase his level of success with MB's. being good as his is does not mean he should stand pat.

Take it as you see it but it doesn't change anything if you don't change. Be the spouse that your spouse wants you to be.

The main point of this thread is to contact the OM in the affair and tell him what you made some mistakes in the Marriage, which is true, and you want to save your marriage by being the man your Wife needs you to be.

Noooo!
A Samurai would NEVER admit his mistakes to the other man (enemy).

Please go back and reread and tell me what is the main point of this thread?

You need to tell the OM to stay the Hell away from Mrs. Samurai, YOUR WIFE.

bump

Bump

Just wanted to add this for new BHs out there who are considering whether to confront OM, speaking from experience:

Do it. You will feel great.

Exposure and confrontation make the affair hell for the participants, but they also are for the BHs benefit. If exposure gains the BH support he needs from his family and friends, confronting OM will help you recover your self respect. It will help you to feel like you are fighting for your marriage and not just a doormat.

OM is probably terrified of you, he's counting on not having to deal with you or any other consequences for his actions. He is a coward that is disrespecting you in the worst possibly way behind your back. Don't let him get away with doing that to you and never having to answer to you. If you leave him alone, you'll regret it for the rest of your life, even if you don't save your marriage. Defend your wife's honor!

What does Dr. H say about BW? I sent the ow a text and was able to use her own words against her when I did internet exposure. I felt pretty good about it.

We discuss it in the 2nd page of the thread.

Confronting OW in person, no texts, in full view of WH and all of their collegues, was a huge and too-long-awaited victory for me. I sent OW screaming and threatening to beat me up outside. WH found her revolting.

Sooner would have been better. Immediately would have been best.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Go do it now!