You need to set your standards much higher then. Lowering your standards to ascribe unwarranted worth to a liar and an adulterer does not help your husband be a better man. This is not honest and is not helpful. It just sends the message that you have absolutely no standards for your husband, that no matter how abusive, no matter how evil, that he is just a wonderful guy.

If you want to love your husband, love him with TRUTH and help him be a better man. Don't praise him for being a bad man.

My Little children, let us not love in word, neither with the tongue; but in deed and truth.
1 John 3:18

Please listen to this radio clip of Dr. H telling the steps of fighting an affair and the first step is exposure.

Radio clip on Killing the affair with exposure and Dr. H's feelings on affairs.

I don't make him feel good about the bad that he is doing. I'm very straight up with him about that. But, I know the good that is in him and see it everyday, despite his bad decisions. He will be the first person to say that he is a bad man. My response is always, "But you don't have to be. You have so much potential and greatness in you, if you would just let that be who you are." I have said that so many times now, that he could probably quote me as I say it.

Because I know the greatness that is in him, not this monster that has taken over the past two years, I know that he is worth it, if he would just straighten up. I don't think that is silly talk at all. He wants to change and be the good man that he used to be, he just isn't sure how. So, I continue to focus on the good and encourage him towards that direction. The way I explained it to his mom the other day is, "He's like a mute, dumb, blind man, lost in the middle of the city, trying to find his way home. He knows he wants to get home, he just isn't sure which way it is." I then proceeded to tell her that I would rather be someone that is helping to lead him home with encouraging words and wisdom, than one that is leaving him completely lost and hopeless. She took that one pretty hard, because she refuses to talk to him about any of this. She is taking it all a lot harder than I am and is already letting bitterness take root towards her own son.

Please, don't think that I'm encouraging falsehoods or enabling him to continue the way he is. I have made it very clear that if he chooses this path of destruction as his primary, after all of this tug of war on his heart, then I cannot be there for him anymore. I let him know that I refuse to waste my breath on someone that doesn't take head to anything I have to say. That is the last thing he wants to happen.

"Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes." This is what I meant when I said it is ultimately his choice. I have made it very clear to him that I will not stay in a marriage that continues to be what it has been the past couple of years. He knows that if changes aren't made, then his chance at earning my forgiveness and working things out is over. He knows that I have set the bar pretty high and is scared that he won't be able to live up to the expectations or agreements. That is why I am just waiting right now. Waiting for him to decide what he wants, so we can move forward, whatever direction that may be. If he doesn't want to change, then I will see that in time. For now, I'm just talking with him, encouraging him, and keeping the boundaries in place until he is ready to remove them. That doesn't mean that I won't show him love. I won't be cold to him while he is trying to figure things out. When he is around me, he sees the wife that he misses so much, which encourages him.

Yes, the OW put a "final stop" to things yesterday. But, this is after weeks of his actions pushing her away so that he could move towards he and I working things out. The first thing I told him after he said it was over, was, "Just because you say it is over with her, does not mean that I am jumping right back into your arms. There has got to be serious changes, that will take time, but I am willing to work on these things with you so that we may be reconciled down the road." I'm not a fool. I know it's going to take a lot of work, changes, and convictions in order to restore things between us as husband and wife.

DH has never seen me stand my ground so much, unless it had to do with our children. He knows that I am serious, which scares him about his ability to meet the standards. I know that everyone on here so far has been against counseling, but I have mandated that he get counseling. He has a sex addiction that he cannot control on his own. He needs help. It may take years before we are fully restored, but so long as we're taking the steps, then so be it. I am not afraid of hard work.

If it turns out that he doesn't want to put in the work that this would require, then my work will turn towards the divorce. While I wait though, I am taking steps to build a life for the boys and I. I am working on my degree, which should be finished in three years, just tested for a really great job with the county, have made friends of my own, hang out with my friends, and have found activities that I enjoy doing. Most of those activities are things he enjoys too, so he could easily integrate with me on that. The friends, he could integrate in with them if they saw changes, but that is trickier. My job would make for a great combined income once we are back together, and the degree would help me climb the ladder in employment, along with helping us to fulfill a dream of both of ours later on. It's a life on my own, with the boys, that could easily fit him as well, should he do what it takes. Like I said, it's his decision.

The affair and sexual addiction has already been exposed. That was taken care of in January, with a select few being exposed months before that. There is one past affair that he had hidden for years, but in February he decided that he was tired of hiding it and wanted to expose the truth. That has been taken care of already.

Beckers, I would wait about 30 minutes and then give him your conditions. You should not wait on him. It is critical that you lead your marriage out of the ditch, rather than wait and follow. I would go to him with an action plan and make it very clear that this is what it will take. He either gets on board or he gets off. But, there should be no waiting. The plan needs to start NOW. He doesn't need to figure anything out. He either commits to your plan and you should make plans to move on.

While I agree it is a good idea to show him love, it is more important to show him your firm boundaries along with your plan of recovery, which is NOT negotiable. I would not wait to present it. Not having a plan is a plan to fail. You have this plan, I would take it to him NOW. Don't wait!

I should probably note: "seeing the wife that he misses so much", does not include sexual intimacy. There is a clear line drawn on that so long as he is trying to figure out what he wants. If he decides to work on things, which I really think he is going to do, then we will slowly work up to that.

The "no nights apart" thing is not possible for us. One, he hasn't decided to work on "us" yet. Two, his job has him on the road Monday-Friday most weeks. He is actually going to be around this week, and may stay over a couple of nights (to watch movies with me, be around the boys, and for us to talk), but it will not include sex of any form. Not until we're ready, which we're not. Especially with his addiction.

When he does not stay at our house, then he is staying at his dad's. They keep him accountable on that end.

That is correct. He doesn't need counseling, he needs a plan of action. Yes, he can control his sex addiction and this program can help in that regard. This program is all about changing destructive behaviors in a way that complements the marriage and protects you. IT won't take "years" to restore your marriage, though. Using this program, it should take months to see a big difference.

Every wayward wants to go to counseling so they can avoid doing the hard work required to change themselves. I would not agree to such a distraction if you want to save your marriage.

And this will have to be changedif you are serious about recovering your marriage. He can't continue in a traveling job and save his marriage. That is one of the first steps. If you are serious about recovering your marriage, you should be having sex right away. There is no reason to wait other than getting checked for STDs.

His addiction can't very well be resolved if he is still traveling. But if he is home with you every night, he would not be in a position to pursue his addiction. Plus, you can't recover a marriage if you aren't together every night.

Will he look for another job? One thing you could do is travel with him during the week until he can line something else up.

That won't help your marriage recover though. You can't recover a marriage when you are not together.

This is not flattery to you. Your WH is attempting to manipulate you into not holding his "feet to the fire".
Because he wants you to "lovingly" point him in the right direction.

It is the same with the divorce proceedings. Yup, he would not be the first WH to promise "relationship" after the divorce, usually an attempt at having the spouse "go easy" and sign the divorce petition -- then get left eating dust after the ruling.

There is a website I will not mention, that advises this as a way to pacify a divorce partner who is reluctant to divorce.

I mean this in the nicest way, but are you buying these lines?

He is very foggy, he wants a nice, friendly divorce-- so you will just go away easily. Oh, unles it is a moment that he wants/needs something from you (we call it eating cake)

Then I am sure he will come around.
Do not listen to his fog.

Welcome, I am glad you are here. There are a lot of people who have been in your shoes who will help you here.

To add to Melodylane's excellent point on the traveling please read this.

Traveling Jobs

This has been going on for over two years, already? Wow, that must be very painful to you.

Most A's die in that (2 year) timeline, so your WH and OW hit about the average mark.

You will find lots to read here.

Good luck to you.

Beckers, unless you want to endure more affairs in your future, certain things have to happen.

1. you have to be together every night. you have to meet each others emotional needs on a daily basis and you also have to be together to hold him accountable

2. he has to change his lifestyle so that he can't possibly carry on the necessary secret second life

3. his porn and anything that relates to his "addicion" has to be removed and he has to transition to a normal sex life with you

4. a romantic relationship with you has to be created

That is what it will take to recover your marriage. It is an action plan and I don't see that you are serious about taking action. Rather I see you putting this off and sending him to "counseling" while nothing is being done about the main problem, your crippled marriage. If you wait, as you suggest, you won't have a marriage left.

Most people do not ever recover their marriages because they don't follow this plan. You don't have to take that path. You CAN recover your marriage if you get serious and put aside your own notions.

If your husband won;t put in the work to save your marriage then Dr Harley would not advocate that you wait, and most certainly not wait for three years. Women end up with nervous breakdowns from just 4 weeks of this. If he won't commit, then the next logical step would be an air tight separation, ie: called Plan B. That will protect you from his abusive behavior. There should no contact at all.

No, he will not look for another job. This is the first job he has been able to get with a good wage, insurance for us, and great retirement benefits. He was stationary up until a few weeks ago, but someone with higher seniority came in and bumped him from his foreman position. The closest position in the district he could pick up for now, is this current one, which requires travel sometimes. As soon as a position opens up in our city, then he plans to put in for it. He does not like being gone on the road all the time.

This job is a new one and is something he had been trying to get into for a long time. The insurance alone is worth it. I had a really bad accident nine years ago that crushed my face. It took several surgeries and lots of time in the hospital before they were able to reconstruct everything that needed to be fixed. Ever since then, I have suffered from chronic pain. We had insurance at the time of the accident, but he lost that job a year later. Since then, he has not been able to get anything (remember, he was a pastor) that had insurance or enough pay to purchase insurance. Now, he has insurance and has me going to the doctors to control my pain. It has truly been life changing to not be in pain all of the time!

Even though he isn't sure what he wants, he knows for sure that I am to stay on his insurance for as long as I need to. Even if there were a divorce, he wants the court to mandate that his insurance carries me until I find a job with insurance of my own. The boys will always stay on his insurance so that I don't have to pay for them to be on mine.

I can't travel with him during the week. We have two boys, one who is playing for a specialty team in baseball this summer. He has strict practices with former MLB players and coaches twice a week. Plus, we have our dogs and hopefully my new job. Traveling with him is not realistic at all.

Couples have worked through tougher situations. We know that ours is temporary until he can bump into something in our city. So, we talk on the phone everyday, text when either of us can't talk, and spend a lot of time as a family on the weekends (baseball games, swimming, fishing, hiking, yard work, etc.). The daytime is devoted to family time and work around the house, then the nights are devoted to he and I going out or just hanging out at the house, watching a movie or something.

When he first came to me in Feb and asked for a chance, he immediately moved back in and was with me every night, even sexually. That did not do anything for us except add stress. Primarily because he was still seeing the OW. So, I asked him to move out to his dad's until we could get a firm foundation under us.

We're taking things slower this time, which works for us. Trust me MelodyLane, I want nothing more than for things to move quickly. But, that is not how he works. If I go at him with demands like this, and no time to think about them, then he'll buck at them and me. If I wait and take my time, letting him chew on things and do what he needs to do for himself, then ground will be gained and he'll appreciate me more for it.

I will go over this plan with him, so he knows what is expected. When he is ready to commit to it, then he will let me know. Until then, yes, I'll wait while enjoying life. I want this to work out. I will not destroy it before there's even a chance to start by pushing and rushing him. It took him time to get into this mess, it's going to take him to time to get out. I don't like it, but that's how it is. You'd be amazed at how patient you can be when you want something really bad.

I am so sorry he is not serious. Unfortunately, your husband is not serious about recovery or he would be willing to do whatever it takes to recover the marriage. It is clear he is not willing to do anything. Your marriage won't recover that way.


Let us know if he ever gets serious and we can help you with a realistic plan of recovery.

No, he has not been with her for two years. Sorry. His downward spiral and self reflection has been going on for about two years. This OW and DH have been together for the past year (mostly long distance).

It takes forever when one is not serious about recovery. And your husband is not serious. If he were serious, it doesn't take much time at all actually.

I am sorry that you have chosen to live like this. What a horrible thing for your children to witness.

You do understand that this is how a person who is serious works? The reason things are "not moving quickly" is because your husband is not serious.

Dr Harley would advise that you go into Plan B until he agrees to the conditions necessary to recover your marriage.

A wayward is about as "self reflective" as a falling down drunk. He hasn't been reflecting on anything other than getting his rocks off from his filthy affair. The notion that a wayward is "reflective" is foggy thinking.