I hear you. My inexperience with lawyers is causing me more trouble right now than it's helping. Sorry again.

This is not a matter of education, it is a matter of common sense. If anyone tells you something that makes no sense, it is up to you to reject that advice. This is a time when you need full use of your common sense.

Now, you surely understand that if your wife can't lose custody even though she has abandoned her children and is in active affair, that you can't lose custody by speaking to the OM?

I would go see the OM today and get this over with. Stop waffling around. Then you can educate your lawyer on Monday about the importance of taking this step.

See, your lawyer doesn't know anything about saving marriages and doesn't care about saving your marriage. This would be an opportunity to educate him on Dr Harley's methods.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the attorney does not have to live with the results of your lack of action: YOU DO. YOUR CHILDREN DO. He is only concerned about facilitating the easiest possible divorce becuase he doesn't give a crap if you save your marriage. You have to live with that.

Like I have told you over and over again, the key to killing an affair is to run off the OM. Confronting the OM is a huge piece of that. Do you think the lawyer gives a ratsass if you run off the OM? No, he doesn't.

Lawyers goal: amicable, easy divorce with 50% custody. Advice is to not confront the OM. His only experience is in ending marriages.

Dr. Harley's goal: recovered marriage with 100% custody. Advice is to confront the OM and run him off. His experience is in saving marriages. "I encourage BH's to contact the OM"

It's OK, REALLY.
We get it.
That is why I recommend you make lists.
It's so much easier to push aside emotionality when drawing up a list.
It's easier to identify strengths & weaknesses once you put things to do in the form of a list.
That is why sometimes my posts to you look like a list more than a story.

Hello looking,

I have looked in on your thread from time to time in the past, but not recently, until today - esp since it's over 100 pages ..*s*. I feel I have to speak out now tho because I honestly feel dismayed. You seem close to taking the proper actions, but yet seem so far away from doing so. What is my concern about this? Simply that I detest affairs, and OM's and OW's and the damage they inflict on innocent people - BS's and the kids especially. I detest OM's especially, because for one I am a guy (if I was a female I guess I would detest OW's more) and because I think they inflict more damage.

I think I understand your frustrations now and that is that you haven't been thru this before, never expected it, not prepared for it, and in all seriousness you feel you've lost the love of your life, the mom of your kids, to this $#@^^%!! And in addition Melody and Pepperband and all these guys here are beating you senselless over your refusal to accept their promotion of MB principles. If I was in your position I have to say honestly I would be skeptical as well and I would have a severe headache.

I think I would be more discerning and more open-minded tho than you are now.

I'm a great fan of WWII films (guess you know my age now - approcimately). Great film - 'Midway' was on. It's actually accurate histrically. U.S. = 3 carries against Japan's 6. Japan's primary objective was to take out the airfields and planes at Midway, but it boilded down to a carrier battle. I am not just relating this from the film - I've read quite alot on American history and involvement in wars. Historical content of the film was accurate. Adm. Spruance, who commanded the U.S. carrier fleet that day, had to make decisions in the SAME manner you have to - without complete information (not knowing excatly where the enemy force was or what situation they were in), facing a brand new and unfamilair situation (battle between aircraft carriers), and several opposing opinions among his staff. I recall reading one of his statements long after that he felt he had to strike first or that battle and the carriers would be lost and that he based his decision on just commone sense. He combined his common sense with his knowledge of military strategy and what incomplete and opposing information he had and launched all the planes from the Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet. Spruance took a calculated gamble, but he judged right in catching the enemy refueling and his places sunk 4 enemy carriers.

Without that victory based on a courageous man's DECISION, the war could have lasted much longer and perhaps a different outcome.

No, Admr. Spruance was not fighting for his family against an enemy intruder to his marriage. He was fighting a differnt war. But, he was not afraid to make a calculated decision that affects us all now, whether we realize it or not. He probably felt the same as you do now - not enough info. Had he dalleyed in indecision, waiting for more info, I am not sure what the outcome of that battle would have been.

Allright, I realize this may seem stupid and trite to you. However, may I offer that in the last several days of bantering back and forth with MB members regarding your uncertainty that you are wasting vaualble time. Spruance did not have war-experienced advisors to help him in that battle - You do now. I think with this bantering, you have lost sight of your objective - You seem too worried about your feelings now to carry on. You are at war - like Spruance - you are not trying to save America - you're trying to save your M and family! You're enemy is the A as well as the OM. You have been given much advice - Neverguessed the other day in simply having your wife come over, have a trusted friend there with your and et her pick up her things. There should not be any problem with that, and may decrease her animosity toward you in you preventing her from retrieving her possessions (seems like you are attempting to exert control over her there). Confronting the OM - what possibly do you fear? He is not related at all to you or your kids - as Pepperband told you - remain decisive and factual, have a trusted friend with you - what do you fear? Have you really questioned your attorney about any specific objection he has? What cases can he cite to you or regarding judge's opinions? If I were you, and I am not, I would contact this attorney Monday in person and tell him this: On June X I am going to visit and confront OM at his residence with my evidence of his adultery with My wife. This meeting will last for 4 mins and I will have an objective friend with me at the time. Could you please explain to me with specific court case citations how this will affect my custody with my children. And, IF I am to retain you, I want your word that this is Not a criminal offense or that such action would not affect custody. Much as you may disagree, Melody, Pepper, NG and others are telling it right - based on alot more experience than you have. And you have a helluva more adive than Admr Spruance had when he took a real gamble for all of us.

This is the longest post I ever made here. I do not care if you feel honored or offended or not. Just pick up your stuff and get back to your war!!

Tom

looking,
Your getting great advice I just want to add that a Lawyers job is to be thorough and protect himself as well, NO lawyer on this planet would agree to you confronting the OM simply because should you turn out to be a hot head and assault the OM the lawyer would get in serious trouble for condoning the confrontation. Logically speacking it makes sense that a lawyer would never ever take that risk with a client and it is appropriate for him to discourage you from a professional point of view.

NO ONE here has ever advised you to assault (verbally or phisically) the OM. What we want you to do is make yourself visible to him. Calmly and CONFIDENTLY ask him to leave your marriage and WW alone and point out the consequences if he carried on with this A. No threats no drama.

Protect yourself at all times, record the confrontation, have a witness stand out of sight but within hearing distance (or even with a camera). Be smart and be safe.

I can't see any judge punishing you for asking another man to leave your wife alone and for caring enough about your family to do something about the intrusion this OM has done on your family. It does not make sense.


As far as plan A goes i noticed a few pages back you commented on finding it confusing at times so try to follow this simple brakedown of plan A.

do everything you can to make your wife feel good about being married to you but do not do anything to help her when she makes choices that are against the best interest of your marriage.

Example, look good, smell good and dress nicely around her, help with the kids home etc.

Don't ever help her financially or phisically to move out of the marital home or when she is involved with independent behaviour or facilitate any contact with OM.

looking,

In terms of the issue of confronting this OM as the H, NB28 has it exactly right! Again, question our attorney on any of his specific objections on how this could possibly affect custody.

And, you discuss your concern about custody if it comes to D. Well looking, please answer to me an others here, how your kids feel, or may feel several years from now if you are failing to fight for your family by backing off now and allowing this affair to continue without your intervention??

Well, that's my hammer for now.

But, Your deciion now is going to be as impacting on your family as Spruance's was on all of us in 1942.

I hope you stay here and read more and learn, and stand up for yourself and your family against an enemy OM to attempt to save your M. But, do not come back if you are going to give your hammaammaa like Ralph Cramden or your excuses!! PLesae condider! I'd also like to say that altho I really do not persoanlly know Harley or any of the people here, I do feel I realize their motives and frienship, and it does make me a little upset that you seem to be wasting their time here!

Don't think you've run into anyone like me before - think Clint Eastwood's characters - do not think you want to tangle!

Tom

looking,

It is so frustrating reading your excuses. Grow a pair, man! Your wife's affair partner is a villain, and he is taking away that which should be most precious to you. You will not in your lifetime find a more sinister enemy. And you are afraid to confront him because of a flimsy, weak admonition by your lawyer? The guy above posted something about World War II. Well, along the same lines, your Neville Chamberlain approach to dealing with the impending crisis is going to be your downfall.

Man, I wish I had your opportunity to confront the [censored] who has destroyed my family. My wife's affair partner is overseas, and she keeps it under a tight lid. I don't know who he is or how to contact him. I wish I could. You can, but you don't! Incredible. Smh.

Please listen to these excellent radio clips of a BH and WW living apart and what Dr. Harely advises him to do.

Radio Clip on a BH Plan Aing his WW from afar
Segment #2
Segment #3

You know what frustrates me to no end?

When I get around any one of her friends that she's hanging around right now and I get the feeling or thought that she has twisted this story around to make them believe all this is my fault.

The thought that those people are looking at me and thinking that I'm the cause of this situation makes me want to get some signs printed up that say "My wife had an affair and now she wants to leave me and our 2yr old and 6month old children to go to the POSOM"!

I just know that's what she's done. Maybe this is the emotional side talking again, but this really frustrates me!

That is the purpose of EXPOSURE LFH!

You tell the story far and wide. The Truth.
Then when she tries to spin her version of *we grew apart/I tried marriage couseling/he was abusive/he was controlling/its all his fault -- it won't work because everyone will already know the truth.

Try confiding in the new friends. Ask them for their help. Tell them you love your wife, but she's gotten involved in this affair. Ask them what you should do to convince her to end it and come home. Since they are close to her, maybe they could help you...

Be PROACTIVE.

Agree with Lex.

Did you listen yo the clips?

While you're at being proactive how's that letter to Dr. H coming?

This is so discouraging.

It seems that no matter what I try or do, I get nowhere with her or this situation.

I have stopped reacting to ANY of her crap. A couple times for a day or two it seemed like it might be having an effect, but then she just pretty much stopped communicating with me unless she has to.

I don't know what that means, but I'm getting so discouraged that nothing seems to be having any kind of positive effect that I don't know if I want to continue "chasing" her or not.

Yes, I want to have a second chance at my marriage, but I'm getting worn out and tired from doing ALL the work and not seeing ANY results at all....or at least any results that I can see or tell.

In the meantime, I have realized some things about her as a person that I had never really thought about or took into consideration now or ever.

She is emotionally immature as well as pretty naive. The emotional immaturity is the one that worries me the most. That immaturity is probably going to make her "bond" to the POSOM that much stronger and more difficult to break. I may be fighting a losing battle here.

Sounds like you're ready for plan b. You're having a hard time coping with her in the house.

In order to function in my high stress job, I could not have my wife in the house while she was having an affair. I told her, you have a choice: end the affair or leave. She left.

I hear around here that when the ww leaves the chance of getting her back diminish. But I could not abide my wife's affair. For me, there has to be limits. People need limits to function properly. My daughters needed to see that there consequences for actions.

I went into plan b, but did not do it well, and I did it too early. So I switched back to plan a, but I did it from a distance. No lovebusting, and I did my best to meet her EN's even though she was out of the house. It hasn't worked, as far as getting her back, but I feel I have done the best I can and I also feel that I'm on the road to a faster, more healthy recovery because she is out of the house.

No matter how you slice it, we are dealing with shattered dreams. Our ideal of staying married for a lifetime has tragically been threatened or taken away. No one wants to be in dark times, but you're there, my friend. How will you choose to bring light to the darkness? All you can do is find the courage and wisdom to do what is right for your children and yourself. You can't control your ww, but you can present to her the best husband you can be, even if its from a distance. As far as your ww goes: God gives us all free will, and unfortunately its like a rope that some people hang themselves with.

JustThe3,

She has been out of the house since mid-March. That's one reason I've been having such a hard time Plan A'ing. It's been getting progressively harder to continue to Plan A with her out of the house and not really responding to my efforts.

I know I shouldn't expect to see many if any results or changes right now but it's VERY tiring to keep this up. It pains me terribly to even think this much less say it but sometimes I wonder if she is worth continuing.

On the other hand, I figure this is exactly what her plan is....to wear me down so I'll stop trying to "hinder her plan". How is a person supposed to keep motivated enough to continue on?

You have to stop taking her temperature!

You have to stop having expectations.

You have to work a PLAN.
Today, did I make a admiration deposit? check
Did I make a family support deposit? check
etc.

Plan for tomorrows Plan A activities.
Ask her for dinner. Expect rejection. Do it anyway.
Next day, Invite her to the house for a movie night. Expect Rejection. Do it anyway. Next weekend, Include her in children's activity. Expect Rejection. Do it anyway.

And while you are going about your business -- be confident, be content, be attractive.

Stop discussin ANY aspect of divorce. When she brings it up, tell her you don't discuss divorce, you discuss MARRIAGE.

Tell her there is a way for your relationship to be better than ever. Would she like to learn more?

I'm working on the "stop having expectations" but it's difficult to not WANT to see some kind of progress.

I don't talk divorce unless I have to. The only times I do is in regards to keeping the bills paid and dealing with her requests/demands to come get some of her things. Other than that stuff, I dont even respond or react to anything divorce or derrogatory and hurtful that she says. Now that doesnt mean that I dont go talk to someone in my support circle or on here to vent or cry....but I dont show her that side anymore.

I'm curious how you expect to see progress when you don't participate in any of the activities I've described that would add loveunits to her bank?