Sheba,CL,N-B,Dazed....Ahhhh, you all are so right about what it is I need to do. Yeah, I'm being the total shrew. I really have tried friends. Maybe not gone over the top and given that extra 10%, but as much as I could muster.<P>I can think of times that I tried to initiate a hug, to be met with a rigid response. Or a kiss, to which I got a turned cheek. Or a sexual touch to try and arouse my H for sex only to feel his hand move mine away and then turn over and hear him say, "don't. just go to sleep..." A gal can only be rejected so often, ya know? Funny thing is I was on the opposite side of this whole sequence of events just last year. Pre-Mia. <P>It took a huge amount of courage for H to fess up to his affair in our counseling session. Instead of using this opportunity to focus on re-establishing what used to be in our marriage, I have spent immeasurable engery killing what was left of our relationship. I don't condone my H's affair. But I do admit and accept my role in getting us to where we are. My H has said this even before my phone call to Mia - our marriage is beyond repair. I hope that we can at least remain friends..

Tired Lady,<P> The way your H has been treating your efforts to change sounds a lot like the way my H acted for almost ALL of last year and for much of the time this year!<P> I, too, would hug my H, only to get pushed away. I would try to kiss him, only to either have him turn his head or just do a quick peck. I also tried to initiate sex, only to be rejected most of the time, and the times when he didn't turn me down, he couldn't even do it. I well know the feeling that the situation is hopeless.<P> I basically started a "Plan A" before I even knew what a Plan A was. I was becoming increasingly unhappy, and last spring, I decided that I needed to do something about it. I knew that I couldn't change my H, but I figured that if I changed <B>my</B> behavior, his reaction to me would have to change. And, let me tell you this, Tired Lady: I had been a lousy wife, too, in a lot of ways.<P> At one point, he told me not to be touching him when I brushed a piece of lint off his shirt. Boy! Did that HURT!! I told him not to worry, that I wouldn't ever touch him again. But, for the first time, he realized that he hurt me and apologized.<P> It wasn't until July of '98 that I realized that my H might be in love with someone else. I still think that he was, at the very least, involved in an emotional (and probably physical) affair with a mutual "friend." He has never admitted to it, although he finally did admit to cheating on me over 13 years ago. I have known that he cheated for 13 years, yet lived, trying to put it all behind me, with his denials up until the end of August. This is, I believe, one of the reasons why I became such an awful wife--my anger at him was eating me alive.<P> I have Plan A'd for about 1-1/2 years, with maybe 4-5 lovebusters (actually hissy fits) during that time. Last December, we were going to a fancy party that we always go to. I went out and bought myself a really sexy outfit, and since our daughter was temporarily staying with us, we decided to get a motel room. It was supposed to be a romantic night. HAH!!! We were in that motel room, and I was going to town when I realized that my H was not responding; he was ASLEEP!!! I threw a hissy fit; I threw all the sex toys, oils, etc. across the room and told him that if he ever wanted to make love to me again, to let me know, 'cuz I was THROUGH trying!!!! Well, things started getting a little better, and about 4 months later, he complained that I never initiated sex anymore. I simply reminded him that I had decided that I would not initiate love-making anymore because he didn't seem interested. Back in the summer, we had another little blowup and he promised that he would not go anywhere around the suspected OW (he still hasn't admitted to that one) unless I was with him. In August, I got the feeling that he was having lunch at the OW's restaurant. (BTW, I do believe that he ended the affair over a year ago when I asked him if he was in love with someone else, and the OW now has a new single BF.) Sure enough, I caught him there. We had a few words, but a customer came into our business, and H left, saying he was going back to work. After the customer left, I wrote him an ultimatum letter, closed up the store, packed my stuff, and disappeared for a few days. Actually, I rented a car, disguised myself, and checked up on him. He did not go to the OW, thank goodness! I came home after he admitted to the 13-year-ago fling he had.<P> Anyway, my H is finally trying to be the H I need. He is affectionate and loving, and we're making love at least 3x week. True, I often feel as if he is only still with me because our financial situation would ruin us both if we divorced. We have a lot tied up in our business. And, no, he hasn't told me <B>all</B> the truth yet. But, as long as he's here trying, I can keep on trying, too.<P> Last year, at this time, I was in the same boat as you, only my H was scared enough of getting caught to stop his affair (although I think he probably figured on picking it back up again after things cooled down with me.)<P> Yes, you will have to give and give and give some more, even though it's AWFUL to not be seeing any immediate results, because at some point he <B>will</B> realize that you have really changed your behavior and maybe change his reaction to you.<P> But, even if my H hadn't done a turnaround, I would still know that I had <B>fought</B> for our marriage--that I hadn't just given up and thrown it away. I think that doing this has made me a stronger person. Heck, I even feel like I could (almost) leap over tall buildings!! <P> Bottom line, Tired Lady. You're getting a lot of good advice from folks who have been where you are right now. Do you want any chance to salvage your marriage or not? Do you love your H? Do you want to just hand him over to Mia on a silver platter? It's up to you.<P> Whatever you decide, good luck!

Tired Lady,<BR>Maybe you should stop beating yourself up about this. I am sure that I was far from perfect, but my H admitted that I always acted like I loved him. He apparently felt loved but it did not matter - he still had an affair. I have avoided lovebusting almost completely since shortly after he moved out, and the only result is that he has become more distant. If I am flexible and willing to negotiate, he just wants more. I suspect I would have been far better off had I acted like a shrew - at least then it would have been harder for him to ignore me. Sometimes I wish I had harassed the OW, instead of leaving her in peace to get her hooks even more firmly into my H. Yes, the OW wins. She and my H have taught the children (hers and mine) that the way to get what you want is to trample on other people, that you should put your own selfish desires first, that people with money have all the power, and that they can not trust their parent, that parental love is not near so strong as romantic love. Even if their relationship doesn't last, she has destroyed the lives of 7 innocent people, 8 if you count my H, and that was apparently her goal.

sweetpea:<P>Geez...thanks for being so open and honest about your situation. You have written a very truthful response obviously from much experience. I'm sorry you have had to endure what I'm going through (and others here too) <BR>As far as loving my H enough to keep trying - I don't think so. I look at him now and feel nothing but anger, hurt, resentment that he feels he's found his happiness elsewhere. Love? No, that's not what I feel. To tell you the truth, I don't remember ever feeling that "in love" emotion with him, even before we got married. What he described to me that he had with Mia is nothing at all like what we had in the beginning. <P>Nellie - you sound so hurt with your H's actions. I don't agree that people with money get everything. It definately seems that way, and money makes things easier for people, but in the end, if what we are all striving for, love, affection, genuine happiness with our spouses, then money can't buy that. Thanks for always responding to me - I know I have friends here.<P>