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His anger is a tremendous problem. Anger management counseling starts Thursday. Al, have you ever been embarrassed when WH has been rude to a person of lower socio-economic status? Like a maid, a clerk, or a waitress? How I gauge "anger management" progress is when the angry person is newly kind and patient with people he might have bullied in the past. Like elderly slow drivers.
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[ He said he WOULD do a polygraph, but he guaranteed he would resent me for it and it would make our bad situation worse. He swore up and down, again and again, that he had finally come clean. Slowly, I backed down and dropped the poly. Is he still telling you he will "resent" a polygraph? I have to say that I agree with the others that this guy is not serious about recovery. A WH who is serious would not do what it takes in such an unmanly, grudging manner. He should be glad to do anything it takes.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hi AI, I've been reading your thread. Its great that you will take a stand and will no longer take his abuse. Its not always easy to be thick skinned around a wayward, but try to remember you are not crazy, nor is it crazy to want to fight for your marriage. It takes strength and courage to stand for your marriage.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing we could all benefit from, but don't beat yourself up, you made your decisions based on many factors at the time. Maybe now you are in a better position and armed with knowledge and support of MBers. Try not to focus on what might have been, or what you should have done, focus on what you want now.
Hang in there and stay strong. Thank you. Your words mean a lot to me. I'm in a much better place now. One way or another, this hell is almost over.
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RED FLAG. I don't think he's come clean yet either. Regardless the poly is NOT an optional step and I won't be staying married without one. His  anger worries me. What in the world does he have to be angry about?  He would be joyful and enthusiastic about this new lease/opportunity if he had any brains. I think his fall-back reaction is anger when he fears more of his lies are about to be revealed.
A man who has nothing to hide usually welcomes the opportunity to prove to his love that he is now honest with her. SuzieQ knows. Yes, she knows.  He's going to go to "anger management" and lie about what makes him angry. No one can POJA safely when their spouse is angry. I think your requirement for honesty angers him. After all, his lies and secrets were 'never a problem before'. This marriage has a new paradigm. Wake up, Mister Wilson! Yes. Pegged it again. His anger and the manipulation tactics have been ALL ABOUT the fact that he's not being honest and he's trying to deflect me from figuring it out. He has been protecting himself at my expense. My great expense. Anger management is a good step. I did point out to him that it does not achieve anything if he goes in and lies, and plays a game. And that GOING is a good step, but it means nothing to me if he does not apply it an start showing effort and progress ASAP. New paradigm indeed.
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Thanks for the poly advice, everyone. I'll be researching in detail today.
Markos...I agree. He will continue to do NOTHING if he thinks I'm wavering at all.
I'm not wavering at all. He's starting to figure this out.
And it's starting to scare the crap out of him.
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sorry BH- yes i meant thank you!!!
Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan
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I want to give you a belated..... Welcome to MB, AI! I am late to this party, but have just read your thread and think you're amazing! You've been through hell, poor love. Just wanted to chime in here. Plan B was DESIGNED for your very situation. Whether you file for a D, or not, you need the sanctuary of Plan B in which to heal. I say this as a one-year very happy Plan Ber who is halfway through a divorce. (Lots of Plan Bers have to file for financial protection, anyway) Plan B is often misunderstood as 'winning the wayward around' No, no, no, no. Plan B is for the betrayed wife's sanity and peace and healing ONLY. In Plan B you do not wait for him, you create a new life and people will not even be allowed to speak his name to you. You create a wayward husband free universe. The Plan B letter - well I balked at writing it. After all that's happened - and to get lack of remorse to boot - how can you offer another chance? Even if you link that chance to tough conditions and an assessment that they are really repentant? ( I would make a condition that he shows full repentance and apologises to all - or that he can convince Steve H that he's repentant) I am grateful every day that I wrote that letter, however. There were times during the initial weeks of heartbreak when I wanted to call him and wanted to see if he missed me enough yet to be sorry. The letter nips that foolish instinct in the bud. You know they have an easy way home, but that they are too stupid and unrepentant to prove themselves through conditions. It removes all doubts on the matter. If you don�t want to send the letter, you still need to put up the Plan B wall of silence and install NC any way. He is an angry toddler who will demand continued access to you for cake eating. He will become a harassment nightmare. No, I don't want to fight him. I want to fight for the marriage...if it's doable.
I know my line. I know I'm not crazy. And I won't be taking anymore abuse. You can only 'fight' for the M (Plan A) for a few weeks in total - then you must Plan B. If you stay in contact for longer he will not take you seriously and it will affect your health. Thanks indie! I read a lot of your thread when I first got here...you're a strong lady. I know there is a very short timeline on my ability to continue what I'm doing now. There will need to be progress of a major sort. He's been playing me this whole time, trying to protect himself and further secrets. SO DONE. Separation with potential for reconciliation is not on the table in my current plan. For him, that would be nothing more than a chance to keep playing games. My way or the highway.
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I know there is a very short timeline on my ability to continue what I'm doing now. . I agree and think you should start Plan B preparations now. Get the best legal and financial advice possible because you need to be secure. Click the link in my sig for tips on Plan B preps.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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His anger is a tremendous problem. Anger management counseling starts Thursday. Al, have you ever been embarrassed when WH has been rude to a person of lower socio-economic status? Like a maid, a clerk, or a waitress? How I gauge "anger management" progress is when the angry person is newly kind and patient with people he might have bullied in the past. Like elderly slow drivers. Actually, he is very polite and kind to strangers. His anger is very much directed at/about not being able to control people he thinks he should be able to. It's become glaringly obvious. He insults and denigrates the character of anybody who doesn't fall for his bullish*t.
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Some people tell the WH they are about to be kicked out and leave a bag at the door, ask them where they are thinking about staying etc, ...
Others just spring it on them.
I'm not sure what to suggest for your level of wayward. The more experienced vets have seen his ilk before, though.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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[ He said he WOULD do a polygraph, but he guaranteed he would resent me for it and it would make our bad situation worse. He swore up and down, again and again, that he had finally come clean. Slowly, I backed down and dropped the poly. Is he still telling you he will "resent" a polygraph? I have to say that I agree with the others that this guy is not serious about recovery. A WH who is serious would not do what it takes in such an unmanly, grudging manner. He should be glad to do anything it takes. Yes, I agree. I have been baffled for weeks because it seemed like a man who knew he was a lucky SOB to have another chance would leaping all over himself showing remorse and love and jumping through hoops to prove his honesty. He told me I was crazy if I thought anybody would be happy about having to do this stuff. That his feelings of resentment were rational and understandable. But the real truth was that he was NOT committed to recovery. He was still lying andmanipulating to protect HIMSELF. He is not expressing reluctance now. He read my post describing our conversation about my requirements and (supposedly...time will tell) finally got it. Today he gave the kids breakfast and started writing in a notebook. Writing everything down - the full truth. I made it very clear it HAS to be verified by polygraph. He's taking action, finally. We'll see how it goes. I am hopeful, but on the watch for signs that this is another game.
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He's going to go to anger management and lie about what makes him angry.
No one can POJA safely when their spouse is angry. I think your requirement for honesty angers him. After all, his lies and secrets were 'never a problem before'.
This marriage has a new paradigm.
Wake up, Mister Wilson! He just asked me to come to his first anger management session to make it clear to the counsellor what the issues are. So that he can't lie or play anymore games.
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This link will take you to SusieQ's WH. As you can see .... these pitiful waywards complain a LOT and look to deflect rather than accept responsibility and their personal power to change themselves. They'd rather whine.  and  Susie, you don't need to re-read this honey. Here is the link
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He just asked me to come to his first anger management session to make it clear to the counsellor what the issues are. So that he can't lie or play anymore games. .... another  manipulative tactic
Last edited by Pepperband; 06/18/12 11:31 AM.
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Could not agree with Pep more about the anger being used to get you to back off. Dr Harley talks about people's reactions when it comes to protecting their Secret Second Life...which I actually posted to your WH about, **more than once**, and he refused to acknowledge it.
BIG. RED. FLAG.
Did I mention that that poly should be scheduled today? I totally also agree with Pep about forgetting the AM courses until he passes a poly. It will be a waste of time if he is still gaslighting you and protecting his SSL.
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Did I mention that that poly should be scheduled today? I totally also agree with Pep about forgetting the AM courses until he passes a poly. It will be a waste of time if he is still gaslighting you and protecting his SSL. I agree as well. IF he spills the whole truth and passes a polygraph, and establishes transparency and extraordinary precautions, THEN it would be great if you can be involved in his anger management therapy, and also for both of you to take a look at what Dr. Harley says about effective versus ineffective anger management. But let's not get the cart before the horse.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Even if he fesses up EVERYTHING and passes the poly, I am going to recommend that you consider something kinda radical....
Writing it into his EP list that you will be polying him once a year for the first couple of years of R.
I am *that* worried about his problem with lying & his SSL, AI.
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Even if he fesses up EVERYTHING and passes the poly, I am going to recommend that you consider something kinda radical....
Writing it into his EP list that you will be polying him once a year for the first couple of years of R.
I am *that* worried about his problem with lying & his SSL, AI. I have not heard that suggestion before, but I would say it sounds like a really good idea in cases like this.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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MirrorMirror's former wayward wife offered to sit a poly whenever, wherever if her H ever needed her too.
Is that a consideration?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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MirrorMirror's former wayward wife offered to sit a poly whenever, wherever if her H ever needed her too.
Is that a consideration? Sure it is. She was/is willing to take that step (not make that gesture) so that her BH could rest safely & comfortably. When HE said he needed that in order to feel safe. A refusal to poly when you need it for your comfort/safety is not loving/caring/consideration. It's typical wayward thinking. "But, but, but what about trusting me?" "I don't need you to be jailer." "You've been controlling for years." "I don't wanna."
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