If she has promoted her A's through use of text, chat, email, facebook, etc. you should also include that she is no longer able to use those methods of communication or social media.

You can also add more specific ones, such as if she has a tendency to take her phone with her into the bathroom and you feel she does that for privacy to talk to AP's, make it a condition that she not do that. As an example.

Did you decide against a poly? I looked back and noticed you had incorporated it the first time, but not this time. I believe that neither party can commit to full recovery if there are still lies between them, since she has been serial cheating your entire relationship, you cannot possibly think you have all information. This goes for her too, IMO, if she is still hiding secrets it will be difficult for HER to engage in recovery because of the guilt. The poly will give you the opportunity to get all cards on the table and make your decision based on the truth, rather than the truth as you know it, and will give you a clean slate of truth to move forward in recovery with.

Listen to this excellent radio clip on polygraphs.
Radio clip on polygraphs

Make sure it is NC with ALL her AP's. She writes the letter and YOU read it and YOU mail it.

Exposure doesn't need to be part of the EP's. And in fact, you are not supposed to 'warn' her about exposure and give her the opportunity to do damage control (ie tell everyone you are controlling and crazy and paranoid, etc.), you are just supposed to do it in one fell swoop.

I also believe you have talked about her study groups. She is no longer able to study in groups without you present or with other men. She had this opportunity and abused it.

Complete honesty about the A's: this is something you will not know unless verified by a poly. Trust but VERIFY as the saying goes around here.

P.S. Still not getting that polygraph thing. Three people now say it's 'essential'. Anybody know of a forum topic with more details, as in what I need to ask and what is the exact purpose? [/quote]

Jah,

The polygraph thing. Important you listen to the radio clip on polygraphs by Dr. Harley as posted by Brainhurts.

My background... I was in affairs up to eyeballs and and got busted. Thanks to my DS (legtx1) and her willingness not to give up on our marriage, she had me take not one poly, but two, and the third is forthecoming. She was insistent upon it and for that, and her, I am grateful.

I am a Federal Law Enforcement Agent and the thought of taking a poly made me angry. Of course, I was still in the fog and thought I could get through it without disclosing everything. However, for my DS to continue in this marriage, and begin to try and trust again, she needed to uncover things about my wayward behaviour so she could move on one way or another.

The polygraph examiners of today are incredible. Despite my background in law enforcement and my abilities to detect deceit and the belief I had good grasp of how things would go, I was telling truths before I was even hooked up to all the devices.

Dr. Harley's radio spot is exceptional in that it he explains that a poly tends to be a good thing. He does say the one challenged will be angry. I feel anger is a natural reaction to the fact that the wayward is getting called out on his or her waywardness. That was my reaction. Dr. Harley adds that snooping is a good thing which, along with a polygraph, helps substantiate or backup what the wayward is saying.

What you are ultimately working towards is a way to begin a fresh start at trusting your wayward again. Extraordinary precautions play a huge roll in this along with transparency.

The questions asked on polygraph may include:

1. Do you have a secret email accounts, chat room access, addtional phones, instant message accounts?
2. Have you chatted with persons while making it appear you were playing smart phone games such as words with friends, scramble, hanging with friends etc.
3. Other than what we discussed, are there more affairs you have not disclosed to me?
4. Other than what we discussed, have you engaged in inappropriate conversation with a male/female that would dishonor your marriage?
5. Other than what we discussed, have you had sex, oral or otherwise, with a male/female who is not your husband/wife
6. In the past (X amount of time) have you had sex, oral or otherwise, with a male/female who is not your husband/wife?

...Just to name a few. A good polygraph examiner will ask you to provide a series of questions prior to the examination and he will narrow the scope of his exam to point that you and he can agree on. The exam usually consists of not more than 5 questions which pertain to the waywards actions.

Good luck and hang in there.

I would divorce w/what I know about serial cheaters, but if you choose to work out this M, you will need to adhere to a STRICT PLAN!!! Don't waffle, don't let her cave you in. Polygraphs are often utilized to get all the cards on the table. She is a liar and a cheat and you cannot believe what she tells you...hence a polygraph (they're in the yellow pages, google one for your area, you make an appt. just like with the dentist, it may vary different parts of the country, but probably about $200 should cover it). I see you made your list of requirements, the veterans here will respond and add to the list or suggest changes if needed.

Also, what are these study groups...is she a teacher? If an A happened in conjunction w/her job, they will need to be exposed to as well.

It angers me that she tries to protect OM from exposure...the one she should want to protect/care about is YOU! That will need to change if you are to save your M.

I think your wife is lucky to have you...I only hope SHE thinks so someday.

Also Polygraph Testing

Okay, after 8+ posts of polygraphs, I totally agree with it now. If we ever work on our marriage, I will include it in the conditions that she do a polygraph.

So I have exposed the OM. HE was pissed, threatened me with libel, slander, harrassment, invasion of privacy, etc. He said he will have my arrested with a felony, revoke my medical license. (I had another post - Exposure Emergency) Um, right. I checked with two good friends who are also lawyers; they both said nothing he is threatening would hold up in court.

So . . . I also exposed my wife to her friends and family also, without warning. She was so pissed at me, of course. She was absolutely angry! Some of her friends started writing back to me offering me support. My wife I guess went crazy after I exposed things that she went and messaged them all back with this to 'try and explain herself' I guess (one of her friends forwarded it to me so that I know):

I would like to share with you the story today so that you could be more understanding and please do not judge any of us just in case you have heard any piece of information about this.

My husband and I have separated twice for the last 10 months. It has been rough for me for the last 4 years. It has been getting worse and worse for the past year. Currently we are separated again. Right now I am facing a crisis in my life, trying to decide what I should do that I would not regret . I treasure the relationship that I have had with my husband and the love that he has for me. I will always care and love him. But the love I have for him, I am not sure if that is the love between a man and a woman. He was my best friend for many years before we got married. He was always there for me. He is still my best friend now. We got married in 2009 because of many reasons. This wedding also did not happen like any other weddings. Since then it has not been truly a marriage. I know that everybody think that we have been living as a happy couple but it is not true. Maybe because we care about each other so much that we live with each other, or maybe I have just been confused between love and care. I am very confused right now. I have been confused for a long time. My husband always has been a person for me to share the ups and downs in my life that I thought I could live with him for the rest of my life. I know he loves me. I know that I truly care about him. He is the nicest man that I have ever met. He has always been the person for me to lean on since I we dated when I became 21, he was 27. For more than a year now that I started to wonder whether or not we should live together for the rest of our lives.
I have been feeling lonely and depressed for a very long time. I know that there is something missing in this marriage. I have been trying to make it work for 3 years now. We got separated and then back together twice. It has been tough for both of us. I have always been very truthful to my husband about how I feel about him. I have told him hundreds of time that I feel lonely and that I am confused about the love I have for him, and that I want marriage counseling. We have gone to marriage counseling for 6 months now. I feel guilty toward him because I have not been able to give him the same love that he gives to me.
Recently I have met a man and I have a very special feeling for him.
I do not want to cheat my husband. I want to be fair to my husband also. I told him I have liked this man and I decided to cancel the trip that we planned to New York and other states on this July. I was the person who initiated the separation. I do want to have time to think for myself clearly. I don�t want to be with my husband and be in love or think about another man. I have a very special feeling for this man and I think I am falling for him. I still care very much about my husband. I know that my husband Bernard loves me very much and he wants to work on this marriage so much that he is desperate in trying everything he can to make this marriage work. It hurts me really badly to know that I am hurting him. I know that I have hurt my husband a great deal that I can never forgive myself. I feel hurt too. Till this moment I am not sure what I should do. I am very confused.
I want everyone who knows this story to know that the person I have special feeling for is also a nice man. He has done nothing wrong yet.
I just hope you all understand the situation and do not judge any of us, but please support us if you know any of us.

Three of us are in a very difficult situation. I do want to treat my husband fairly. That is why I moved out to think clearly. I feel really bad for what is happening right now but I do not have intention to hurt any body. I just want to have a happy life. I am really torn.
My intention in writing this is to ask people to be understanding and do not judge any of us and start to gossip, because you do not know what has been going on.


After this message, I'm not sure what to do. First of all, her counter message is full of lies of course. She had an affair THEN wanted separation. We did marriage counseling and she still cheated. There are other lies. So I am not sure if I should message them all again to set things straight, or if it would just make it too complicated and turn people off.

Yes OM can try and blow a lot of empty threats. We knew he had nothing to stand on. You did the right thing.

When your exposure makes the waywards angry then you know it was a bullseye. Good job.

She's trying to rewrite history. That is very typical for a wayward.

Did you offer your evidence when you exposed?

Thanks for the encouragement. No, I did not give direct evidence in the message. I did say I can provide evidence for anyone who asks, however.

So just to go back to my question; alot of what she wrote was made up. False. Her letter is actually quite poorly written. Mine was clear and straightforward. But should I write to everyone to correct her lies?

I have my facebook message (that I sent to her contacts) see below as an example:

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxx and I. xxx has been carrying on an affair with a man named xxx xxx. I am writing to you because I still want to give my marriage a chance. However, our marriage cannot even begin to heal until the affair ends completely. Affairs also thrive in secrecy and that is why I am writing to you now.

I am NOT writing to you so that you confront this man xxx yourself. I have already exposed his actions to his family, friends, workmates, even his parents. I am only asking you two things: 1) If you have any acquaintance with this man xxx, please support our marriage by preventing any chance contact between xxx and my wife ever again. 2) Please do not believe any lies that he may spread about me and my wife. I am only telling you the truth. I will provide evidence if you need it.

Also, if you know of any other affair(s) that someone is/was having with my wife, please let me know, as I WILL expose them also. I am STILL willing to work on our marriage even if more affairs turn up; however, I cannot begin the process of trusting xxx again until the entire truth is revealed.

I am trying to find it in my heart to forgive xxx, and if I can forgive her, I hope you can also and do not hold anything against her. Please support my wife in any way you can. If you see us together, try to treat us like you would any other friend.

Keep in mind that everything I am doing is not out of revenge, but only because I want to do everything possible to give our marriage one last chance. Thank you for your support.

Warmest regards,
xxx

Your exposure letter is great. It's calm, concerned, clear.

Her response is rambling, defensive and pretty nuts if you ask me. I could be wrong and more experienced people will come along in the morning but I don't think you need to respond to her response.

It's pretty easy for most people to see through her justifications here. She just shot herself in the foot with this letter. Also, if some of her friends have been offering YOU support since you exposed, you can bet they see who she is and how she's been behaving. They know the score.

I would refrain if it were me. Let your original letter speak for itself...

Jah, what evidence do you have of WW? I am just catching up on your thread, and am unsure.

Your WW's response to exposure is fog, fog and more fog. Sadly, some people buy into this belief that "well, she deserves to be happy" crap. WE know different, but we are MB educated.

Personally, if I had emails etc that predated your separation, I would send another email with a link explaining if others want to see evidence that her affairs have caused the confusion she is currently feeling, I would send it.

In my sitch, it wasn't until I sent out proof of the A being ongoing prior to separation that I got 100% support. Yes, everyone was outspoken against the A, but they tended to be sucked in to WH's fog. After I sent out proof, they called him on his lies. And I took satisfaction in knowing that with or without marital recovery, WH now knows others just don't buy it.

And from recent threads (especially rainysweet's) it is apparent that MOST exposure targets won't ask for evidence. I know not one asked me, they all just believed me. But if provided, they WILL check it out. RS created a website targets could click on (I am not suggesting you need go to this effort, but attached emails could work) and she is still getting hits on it.

Okay, after exposing my wife and OM, she came out and called me and said yes, she wanted to work on our marriage. I told her it has to be genuine, and she said yes.

However, I listed down the conditions I required, and then she wavered and said she is not sure she can do number 1. So she went back to thinking about it.

1. End all contact with the xxx for life. This involves writing a letter (agreed by me and you) stating you do not want to see him again.
2. No more nights apart or going out without each other.
3. Complete transparency - cell phone, email, facebook, passwords, etc. You give me access to everything.
4. No more opposite sex friendships
5. Complete honesty about you affair<s> � I will ask you take a polygraph test to see if you have had any other affairs. You see, honesty cannot begin at all until the entire truth is out. Even if I find out there have been more affairs, I will not give up on you.
6. Commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Well, you can't go onto the other steps until Step #1 is achieved! You are doing a great job!!

As we were talking, for maybe a good hour, I was calm and composed for about 90% of it. But there were a few flareup here and there, where I had to calm both of us down.

My question is, if she disagrees to #1, then should I still stay in plan A? I read the long post about plan A, and I'm not sure what the goal of it is.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2296184

One part says the goal is to develop a strong sense of self worth. The other says the goal is to make yourself an attractive alternative to the cheating spouse. Isn't the goal also to have them agree to the conditions? Or should I not be bringing up the conditions at this point?

MelodyLane, I have to admit, you are a lifesaver. Every step of the way you give me hope. I feel I'm taking a whole bunch of small steps (even though each one seems huge), and I need support from people like you.

Unfortunately, also in the "The carrot and the stick of plan A", there is a part about when it is close to the end. There are three especially I am experiencing:

Signs the end of Plan A is near
XX You have mental lovebusting conversations telling off your WS .... and now they are starting to become out-loud when you are alone ... like the shower or driving in traffic ... it's almost time
XX You are weeping more not less
XX You cannot eat or sleep

It says that once I get close to the end of Plan A, I should start looking into Plan B. Can someone please send me the link to a summary of Plan B?

I am not sure what you mean by "self worth;" the goal is to bust up the affair. You also make yourself an attractive alternative while setting conditions. You should be discussing what it will take to recover your marriage.

In your case, I wouldn't stay in a Plan A too long. You are on affair #3 and it is clear your wife is not marriage material and never has been. I wouldn't spend too much time waiting for her to make the necessary RADICAL changes.

In fact, I would file for divorce and get legal protection in place. In the time it takes for the divorce to be final, you can determine if she demonstrates the necessary RADICAL changes. If she doesn't do that, you will be divorced and much better off.

There are lots of good women out there, jah, who you can love even more than her, who would be faithful to you. There are much better alternatives for you out there.

jah, here is the link for Plan B. here

I would not suggest staying in Plan A for very long at all, just because of the fact that she is in affair #3. You have essentially been dealing with her affairs for 3 years now. That is much, much longer than is suggested for anyone. I am sure you have been trying to win her back since you got married and it has not made a difference.

Another thing comes to mind, joh. Since your entire marriage has been focused on her affairs and her complete lack of engagement in the marriage, it translates to unconditional love. You have tolerated the absolute worst abuse with no repercussions for her.

Here is what Harley says about unconditional love and I think we can see it describes your situation:


Wouldn't you agree that abuse and neglect characterize your marriage?

Thank you for the link, but I have read that one and the description is very short. "Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery."

It sounds like plan B is complete separation, and I am okay with that. However, you also say I should just file for divorce and get everything started. Is filing for divorce part of plan B?

I am fine with complete separation, but my wife is completely dependent on me. Her degree is not finished, she has no income, no place to live. Her family is in another country! Should I just have all her stuff in boxes and just leave them at the door for her to pick up? Even if our marriage is over, but I don't want her to end up homeless on the streets. At the same time, I refuse to finance her with the thought that she now can live her life and be with the other guy, while I am financing her.

Dr Harley typically recommends filing for divorce in order to protect yourself legally. In your case, it makes perfect sense, because by filing for divorce you benefit in every way. If she doesn't get on board, you will be divorced and if she does get on board, you can just drop the suit. And I would file for divorce on grounds of adultery if you live in a grounds state. If you do that, the OM will be subpeonaed.

I would not give your wife any money at all unless it is court ordered. She can live with her parents until she gets a job and she can pay for her own education. But she should not expect all the benefits of a marriage that she has NEVER been committed to. You don't even want to finance her affairs/single lifestyle.

I hate to say this, my friend, but I can't help but think that her only goal in marrying you was to get financial support. Is that possible?