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That struck my mind too...in which case, wouldn't it be better to find out sooner rather than later?


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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No, I do not think she was a gold digger. We knew each other 10 years before the marriage, dated at least 8 years prior. This was all before I was even applying to medical school.



BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
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Let me describe my wife a little bit for you all. She is very emotional. She is also naive and stubborn. And probably easily swayed. I am not making excuses for her having the affair, but by knowing her personality, this is what I think she would do to each of these choices I see that I have left:

1)Plan A has not worked at all. As melodylane said, I probably have been stuck in a form of plan A for 3 years now. I have done the complete exposure of this guy and my wife. After the initial wave of 'shock and anger', the affair continues like before. I also have no strength left to be in Plan A.

2) If I started a plan B with complete separation, I think she would give in to my conditions fairly quickly. She is in school, makes no money, has no family here, and I don't think the guy would support her. Or if he did, it would not last long.

3) If I filed for divorce (as Melodylane suggested) I am almost certain that once I tell her that I am filing for divorce, she will immediately give up the affair and agree to ALL my conditions I set forth previously. I know this because she still has feelings for me (see in an earlier post how she describes her situation to her friends), she keeps saying she is just 'confused', and I do believe she is just in that 'fog' state of mind.

However, is it okay to start the marriagebuilders program (as well as the rest of my conditions) based upon the threat of divorce? I would have really liked her to realize her mistake or decide that I am the better one (as in plan A). She confessed to me yesterday that she 'thinks I'm the better one', but that's not strong enough to get her to commit to my conditions.

Which plan should I take? I also have my conditions listed below for you to also comment on.

1. End all contact with the xxx for life. This involves writing a letter (agreed by me and you) stating you do not want to see him again.
2. No more nights apart or going out without each other.
3. Complete transparency - cell phone, email, facebook, passwords, etc. You give me access to everything.
4. No more opposite sex friendships
5. Complete honesty about you affair<s> � I will ask you take a polygraph test to see if you have had any other affairs. You see, honesty cannot begin at all until the entire truth is out. Even if I find out there have been more affairs, I will not give up on you.
6. Commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by jah
Thank you for the link, but I have read that one and the description is very short. "Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery."

It sounds like plan B is complete separation, and I am okay with that. However, you also say I should just file for divorce and get everything started. Is filing for divorce part of plan B?

I am fine with complete separation, but my wife is completely dependent on me. Her degree is not finished, she has no income, no place to live. Her family is in another country! Should I just have all her stuff in boxes and just leave them at the door for her to pick up? Even if our marriage is over, but I don't want her to end up homeless on the streets. At the same time, I refuse to finance her with the thought that she now can live her life and be with the other guy, while I am financing her.

plan b is two-fold. one part of it is to demonstrate to the WS how life will be with their choice to be adulterous. what i've highlighted in red is the consequences for her decision to behave that way. you are in a great place to show her what is what!

the other half of plan b is all about you. being completely dark from the WS will give you time to start healing from fighting the adultery (and you've been doing that a looooong time). it will also bring you some clarity to decide what to do with your life, with, or without, the WS. it protects your LB$ so that you can reconcile if your WS ends the a and wants to recover the M.

you're doing really well! keep up the good work. you are a very wise BS - you are taking the steps and ACTING on them. that's how you get from one place to the other. well done!

Last edited by Letty; 06/23/12 05:27 PM. Reason: fixed color

fBW 49
xWH 55
DD 22
DDay 6/07
D 8/15
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Thanks for the encouragement. I understand about plan B. But for me it's a question of Plan B (separation), or just tell her I'm filing for divorce. If I tell her I'm divorcing, I think she will leave the man very quickly. If not, it's really Plan B anyways because it takes time for a divorce to be finalized.

If we separate via plan B, the worst thing that could happen is she could get pregnant. And that would make things even worse than our affair!

I guess maybe I answered my own question then . . . I should just file for divorce.


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
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Posts: 20,470
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Originally Posted by jah
Thanks for the encouragement. I understand about plan B. But for me it's a question of Plan B (separation), or just tell her I'm filing for divorce. If I tell her I'm divorcing, I think she will leave the man very quickly. If not, it's really Plan B anyways because it takes time for a divorce to be finalized.

If we separate via plan B, the worst thing that could happen is she could get pregnant. And that would make things even worse than our affair!

I guess maybe I answered my own question then . . . I should just file for divorce.
For a WW who is financially dependent on her BH filing D can have a huge effect on her, my friend.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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*filing* for divorce is a strategy as well. it protects your marital assets from being used to finance the a. it also provides an incentive for the WS to pull their head in. you can always delay the final judgement if you start to head towards recovery, or even end the divorce action should you decide to stay married (which you could do if the WS meets your conditions for recovery and starts working the programme).

you are smart to think of the possibility of an OC (Other Child - child of adultery partner). and you do not want to have to be legally on the hook for any OC. unfortunately, and OC is always a possibility with a WS. :O(

if you feel that filing would benefit your situation, by all means, do it. you can make up your mind re final judgement when you are ready to do so.


fBW 49
xWH 55
DD 22
DDay 6/07
D 8/15
Letting Go
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Sorry folks, one more question. Should I file the divorce THEN tell her, or vice versa. I do think she will immediately drop the affair if I just tell her. I have two or three times told her I'm thinking about divorce, but otherwise I have always been telling her I want to work on the marriage - even though exposure, etc.)


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 208
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This is the letter I am going to draft to my wife. (sorry, it's long). Any suggestions?
-----------
xxx, it is unfortunate that it has come to this. I cannot carry on anymore, I am just too weak. Too spent. Too beaten. I am just not strong enough to fight for our marriage anymore.

I have decided to completely divorce you. Please do not try to change my mind. It is my final decision.

I will be hiring a lawyer to help me work through the details of the divorce. He or she will be contacting you once you get back to xxx to work on the details. In xxx there is a 'no fault' type of divorce, which means I do not need your consent or agreement to divorce. So you cannot block it. In fact, you cannot block it anyways since you are the one having the affair; only a betrayed spouse (me) can block a divorce. The other part is that you and [OM] may be subpoena (forced) to appear in the court. It is not against the law anymore to have affairs, so the reason is not to arrest you or xxx. The reason is to show that I am not at fault for the divorce, you and Duncan are at fault for having the affair.

If you decide to continue to have sex, please get some type of IUD. It is a device that will prevent you from getting pregnant. It will not protect you from sexually transmitted diseases, but at least it will allow you to have sex without the possibility of getting pregnant. I will pay for it. I do not want your life ruined by getting pregnant with an uncommitted man. I also do not want you to ruin the life of a newborn child.

I will have all of your stuff in boxes, ready to go when you get home. You will need to find a new place to live. Try to stay with a friend at the dorm, or ask xxx, or even move into xxx's house. I will help you move the boxes to where ever you need, except if it is to xxx's house. Have him help you if that's where you want to stay.

I will not finance you or your lifestyle anymore. It is NOT fair for me to give you money to continue on with your life just so that you can be with some other guy. No it is not. And since the divorce is due to you having the affair, I am not responsible financially for you anymore. You will hear from my lawyer the details, but for now just get ready to find a way to support yourself somehow. Borrow from your family. Get a job. Tell xxx he needs to support you now. I will also cancel your phone contract one week after you arrive; one week should be enough time to get a new phone and contact people to find a place to live.

Speaking of finances, by the time you get this, I will have cancelled all our credit cards together and emptied our joint savings account. I will need you to come with me to the bank to close the joint account. Again, you will need to find some other way to support yourself in xxx. If you are afraid of this, I STRONGLY suggest that you consider staying there in [her home country], even if just for a little while, where you will at least have a place to sleep and food to eat. If you find a way to make it back to xxx, I will hold on to your stuff and it will be waiting in boxes.

I want you to know that I forgive you for everything you have done to me. I do not want you to hate yourself for hurting me. I will be okay, and with my family and friends I will start to heal. However, we should both ask forgiveness from God for making a promise that we did not keep. I am sorry to God for giving up on our marriage. You should be sorry for your betrayal. In the end, I know He will forgive us. And remember that I also forgive you.

Please get the support of your family. Tell them we are divorcing; you cannot hide this from them. Family is forever; you can always find new friends. So get their support please.

Finally, I am going to completely shut down contact with you now. It is just too painful, especially these first few months after a divorce, to contact you. The only contact I will accept from you is for questions relating to our divorce. Contact me by e-mail only; I will not answer any phone calls. If there is anything in your e-mail not related to divorce, I will not read it.

Take care, xxx.

Your ex-husband,
xxx


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,470
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Wow jah you're too kind.

Are you sure you want yo pay for her IUD? Shouldn't that be her problem? If she gets pregnant by this OM won't that be a consequence of her affair?

Are you sure you want to help her move? She's a big girl sleeping with another man then she can figure that out.

Also I would secure your finances before you send this and speak to a lawyer first. She's in another country at the moment, correct?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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The main reason for the IUD is that if she wants to ruin her life with this OM, so be it. I am a pediatrician by profession; I cannot bear her bringing into this world an innocent life and ruining another life from the start.

As for helping her move; its not quite 'helping', it's more like getting her stuff out of the apartment as quick as I can. I don't need reminders and clutter to affect my life.

Oh, and yes, she is in another country.


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,197
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Originally Posted by jah
This is the letter I am going to draft to my wife. (sorry, it's long). Any suggestions?
-----------
xxx, it is unfortunate that it has come to this. I cannot carry on anymore, I am just too weak. Too spent. Too beaten. I am just not strong enough to fight for our marriage anymore.

You are not weak, you are strong. Weak is to live in a state of confusion, strong is to demand more for yourself.

I have decided to completely divorce you. Please do not try to change my mind. It is my final decision.

I would not write this unless it IS your final decision. Because if its not, and she ends the A, and you allow her back, your word hereafter will lose some meaning.

If you decide to continue to have sex, please get some type of IUD. It is a device that will prevent you from getting pregnant. It will not protect you from sexually transmitted diseases, but at least it will allow you to have sex without the possibility of getting pregnant. I will pay for it. I do not want your life ruined by getting pregnant with an uncommitted man. I also do not want you to ruin the life of a newborn child.

Are you going to pay for ALL women who are in an A to get an IUD? I'm just saying I agree with BH, if an OC were to occur, isn't this a consequence to her A that SHE needs to deal with? You need to stop treating her like a child who doesn't even know about birth control, she's a grown married woman having an affair for pete's sake. Although, it is kind for you to look out for the OC's of the world...

I will have all of your stuff in boxes, ready to go when you get home. You will need to find a new place to live. Try to stay with a friend at the dorm, or ask xxx, or even move into xxx's house. I will help you move the boxes to where ever you need, except if it is to xxx's house. Have him help you if that's where you want to stay.

Again, I see this as trying to HELP her move out (here's some suggestions WW on how you can solve this). She's a big girl, making some big girl decisions already. She can figure this out.


I want you to know that I forgive you for everything you have done to me. I do not want you to hate yourself for hurting me. I will be okay, and with my family and friends I will start to heal. However, we should both ask forgiveness from God for making a promise that we did not keep. I am sorry to God for giving up on our marriage. You should be sorry for your betrayal. In the end, I know He will forgive us. And remember that I also forgive you.

I think this is premature. Forgiveness is EARNED through just compensation. She has done nothing to earn your forgiveness. You don't want her to hate herself, but protecting her from her own guilt is NOT doing her any service. Making excuses for her is NOT helping her get out of the fog and take responsibility for her actions.

Finally, I am going to completely shut down contact with you now. It is just too painful, especially these first few months after a divorce, to contact you. The only contact I will accept from you is for questions relating to our divorce. Contact me by e-mail only; I will not answer any phone calls. If there is anything in your e-mail not related to divorce, I will not read it.

Jah, are you familiar with an IM? Do you have one in place? This is someone who can be the intermediary between yourself and your WW and screen communications so you truly do not get any foggy jibberish and only get necessary communication. This is essential to your own healing from what I understand, but I am not expert in Plan B or IM's so maybe someone else can give you more info on this.

Take care, xxx.

Your ex-husband,
xxx

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Thank you SO SO SO MUCH for reading through and commenting; it's hard to think straight when writing letters like this.

Originally Posted by unwritten
This is the letter I am going to draft to my wife. (sorry, it's long). Any suggestions?
-----------
xxx, it is unfortunate that it has come to this. I cannot carry on anymore, I am just too weak. Too spent. Too beaten. I am just not strong enough to fight for our marriage anymore.

You are not weak, you are strong. Weak is to live in a state of confusion, strong is to demand more for yourself.
Good advice - I will get rid of all that 'weak' nonsense.

I have decided to completely divorce you. Please do not try to change my mind. It is my final decision.

I would not write this unless it IS your final decision. Because if its not, and she ends the A, and you allow her back, your word hereafter will lose some meaning. Also good advice. I'll take all that finality stuff out.

If you decide to continue to have sex, please get some type of IUD. It is a device that will prevent you from getting pregnant. It will not protect you from sexually transmitted diseases, but at least it will allow you to have sex without the possibility of getting pregnant. I will pay for it. I do not want your life ruined by getting pregnant with an uncommitted man. I also do not want you to ruin the life of a newborn child.

Are you going to pay for ALL women who are in an A to get an IUD? I'm just saying I agree with BH, if an OC were to occur, isn't this a consequence to her A that SHE needs to deal with? You need to stop treating her like a child who doesn't even know about birth control, she's a grown married woman having an affair for pete's sake. Although, it is kind for you to look out for the OC's of the world... No, I want to prevent a pregnancy for several reasons. It will just complicate things; if she got pregnant from this OM I might find myself taking her back if she came crawling back. I also am strictly against abortion (please no posts arguing this point). I stand by not wanting her to ruin the life of an innocent child.

I will have all of your stuff in boxes, ready to go when you get home. You will need to find a new place to live. Try to stay with a friend at the dorm, or ask xxx, or even move into xxx's house. I will help you move the boxes to where ever you need, except if it is to xxx's house. Have him help you if that's where you want to stay.

Again, I see this as trying to HELP her move out (here's some suggestions WW on how you can solve this). She's a big girl, making some big girl decisions already. She can figure this out. Good point. I know someone that has space and would hold her stuff for her so she can find a way to move her stuff herself.

I want you to know that I forgive you for everything you have done to me. I do not want you to hate yourself for hurting me. I will be okay, and with my family and friends I will start to heal. However, we should both ask forgiveness from God for making a promise that we did not keep. I am sorry to God for giving up on our marriage. You should be sorry for your betrayal. In the end, I know He will forgive us. And remember that I also forgive you.

I think this is premature. Forgiveness is EARNED through just compensation. She has done nothing to earn your forgiveness. You don't want her to hate herself, but protecting her from her own guilt is NOT doing her any service. Making excuses for her is NOT helping her get out of the fog and take responsibility for her actions. Okay, agreed. No forgiveness. I'm going to just take this part out.

Finally, I am going to completely shut down contact with you now. It is just too painful, especially these first few months after a divorce, to contact you. The only contact I will accept from you is for questions relating to our divorce. Contact me by e-mail only; I will not answer any phone calls. If there is anything in your e-mail not related to divorce, I will not read it.

Jah, are you familiar with an IM? Do you have one in place? This is someone who can be the intermediary between yourself and your WW and screen communications so you truly do not get any foggy jibberish and only get necessary communication. This is essential to your own healing from what I understand, but I am not expert in Plan B or IM's so maybe someone else can give you more info on this. I know a perfect IM. I remember reading a little about IM already, but I need to read up on it more.

Take care, xxx.

Your ex-husband,
xxx


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,470
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Here you go.
IM Training School


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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...If you decide to continue to have sex, please get some type of IUD. It is a device that will prevent you from getting pregnant. It will not protect you from sexually transmitted diseases, but at least it will allow you to have sex without the possibility of getting pregnant. I will pay for it. I do not want your life ruined by getting pregnant with an uncommitted man. I also do not want you to ruin the life of a newborn child....

OK Jah, I see you are going to remain tight on this. At least change the wording then, to something that holds her more accountable for her actions. "If you continue to engage in sex with POSOM, as a professional who works with the children of such disastrous and selfish events, I urge you to use BC. If you need help funding your BC, I will help you with this cost alone, and solely in support of not bringing a child into this adulterous and selfish situation." None of this need to explain BC to a full grown married woman, or concern for her life being ruined if your stance is that you are actually concerned about the OC.

I see a lot in your letter that leads me to believe that you have the need to protect her, help her, make her feel better. This woman has had 3 affairs in a short 3 year marriage. She does not need you to protect and enable her, she needs you to give her tough love, hoping that she DOES hit rock bottom, because only then does she have the ability to rise from the ashes as a new wife.

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Thanks!


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,470
Likes: 4
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I agree.

She's so used to you taking her back and saving her from her own horrible choices. She needs to grow up and deal with her own consequences.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 208
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Thank you so much for your advice. I think I might be the biggest enabler in this whole forum, to tell you the truth.

I will reword it then; you are right, my whole original letter is an enabling letter. I guess that my feelings for her makes me think it is a 'I still care about you, come back to me' type of letter, but it's totally just an enabling letter.


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 208
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Sorry, I have to describe birth control. Truly, I don't know if she understands the types.


BH: 35
WW: 28
No children. Married 4 years.
D-Day (month?): Apr, 2010. Jan, 2012. May, 2012.
Plan A: Not sure; since marriage counseling began Jan 2012?
Plan B: 6/23/2012
No contact letter: 7/5/2012
Currently in recovery, and thankful to everyone here.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,470
Likes: 4
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Originally Posted by jah
Thank you so much for your advice. I think I might be the biggest enabler in this whole forum, to tell you the truth.

I will reword it then; you are right, my whole original letter is an enabling letter. I guess that my feelings for her makes me think it is a 'I still care about you, come back to me' type of letter, but it's totally just an enabling letter.
At least you see it and are doing something about it now.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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