And jah... I really hope this is not a FR for you.

I'm impressed by how you are using the MB advice and plans though.

Here.
Polygraph Testing

Thanks for the support everyone, including BH on college/polygraph/FR links. I'm writing my polygraph questions today.

Well, yesterday was the FIRST day of recovery, and major problems already! But not nearly as bad as I had expected.

For those following along, my wife is a serial cheater, and I am the sole provider. So during plan B I cut off finances and kicked her out of the apartment (changed locks). Stayed in plan B for 10 days. The day she received my divorce paperwork, she accepted all my conditions, made the polygraph appointment, gave me access to all passwords, and wrote the 'no contact' letter. However, I have decided to keep filing my divorce (still takes 3 months or so anyways), keep her out of the apartment, and keep finances cut off, as I want her to show genuine efforts on working on our marriage over time rather than just take her back after one day.

Yesterday was the first day together post plan B and in recovery. We went to a quiet park and talked 3 long hours. It was a rollercoaster of emotions for her, but very strangely, I was calm the whole time. I didn't have one break. I told her I will record the whole conversation, so that either she or I could go back if we needed to. I didn't tell her the recording was also if I needed info for the polygrapher. Anyways, I also told her to be honest; that even though she has lied so many times in the past, there's no reason to hide anything anymore and if she wants to start regaining my trust it starts today (I know, there's still a good chance she could be lying regardless, but I have a polygraph date set next week, and as I learned in criminal psychiatry, it takes ALOT of effort to keep up lies that are consistent when days turn to weeks and months)

My wife warned me beforehand that the conversation would get ugly, but I said; how can it get uglier than it already is? Just give me the truth. The first thing I asked was for a detailed day-by-day summary of what she was doing for the first 6 days after coming back from her home country. The first day the OM picked her up from the airport, they went to his apartment, they went out to watch a movie together that night, slept in the same bed (no sex). Next morning he did some schoolwork while my wife hung out with friends. In the afternoon, he was getting ready to leave Hawaii to Cali for 10 days to attend a wedding. They had sex that afternoon before he left. Over the next 4 days, they had two conversations over the phone, where my wife said she didn't want to leave me with divorce, and wanted to work on our marriage. This POSOM tells her, "Well, if you feel for your husband, you should go back to your marriage. But I can't promise I'll be waiting if it doesn't work out. If you wanted to divorce and see where our relationship goes, I can't let you stay at my place in the meantime; our relationship is too new." My wife then goes on to say that that she started having some doubts over this guy. After cutting her off from finances, he never paid for the movie they went together (paid only for himself). The few meals they had together he didn't pay for her (just himself). He wasn't going to let her stay at his apartment. And it seemed like my WW telling him that she was thinking of working on the marriage didn't bother him at all.

Keep in mind here, as I am listening to her, I am *screaming* in my head, wanting to tell my *foggy* wife how stupid she is taking this long to realize all this. But like I said, I kept calm the whole conversation. When she was done, I told her firmly (but calmly), of course he doesn't care for her. He's just using you for sex without the hassle or commitment. He isn't willing to support you obviously, financially or otherwise. And stop agreeing with his reasoning that 'the relationship is too new for you to be staying in my apartment'; he just wants the sex but none of the hassle of you around. I also told my wife, "Has he introduced you to ANY of his friends or relatives?" She said no, and I told her of course he didn't! He knows what he is doing is wrong and it's because I exposed him to everyone so he wont introduce her. There's no way this relationship is going anywhere.

So that got my wife's fog cleared, just a little. The rest of the story about what happened during the plan B wasn't too exciting, since the OM was out of the state. Except for one thing. There is this one male friend of both my wife and I we know fairly well. My wife told me that she spent two evenings with this guy, talking about the whole situation and getting advice and support from him. My wife told me that this guy wants our marriage to work out, and he was supporting my side strongly. I told her that's fine, but as per the agreed conditions, I told her this guy is no longer to be a friend (Rule 3: no male friends). Also, she cannot go out with this guy, even for support (Rule 4: no going out separately), and if we do go out together, she is not to leave my sight to talk to him. My wife was kinda mad about this; she said that this guy supported me, and is like a brother to her. I explained that she does not have boundaries, that I cannot trust that she knows her limits, and so no male friends means exactly that. She agreed. I told my WW that I know she needs support, but she needs to find female friends for that. I also called this guy to confront him, I explained the whole situation, include my wife's past and our agreed conditions, and I told him to stay away from my wife. He agreed with my reasoning and conditions, and that he will avoid my wife, and he restated that he supports our marriage and hope it works out.

I don't know if I can believe any of this about this guy, but that's what polygraphs are for, right?

The other big issue I brought up with my wife was why she waited until she got the divorce papers in hand before agreeing to my conditions to work on our marriage, especially if she was already considering me over the OM. She said that she went to see her psychologist a day after arriving (in addition to her psychologist, we both have our own marriage counselors), where she told him that she was torn between the OM and me. This POSP (stands for POS psychologist) told her that she should take a few days to a week to just think about it and not make any decisions. So that's why my wife said she held out on accepting my conditions. Who know's if I should believe that this is her real reason for holding out. But that POSP needs to go. I gotta find a more pro-marriage counselor for my wife.

So, that's the main parts of our 3 hour long conversation. Now on to some of the issues with the 'recovery'. Even though my wife was out of the fog a little, she was crying as we sent the no-contact letter by e-mail. She doesn't have the OM address so we can't mail it, but we will drop it at his door when he gets back (he has roommates so I can't drop it off now). She still cries alot during the conversation, obviously this OM still means something to her. Going with the policy of radical honesty, I also told my wife I wanted to block this OM from communication. She told me, "Go ahead and do it. You don't have to tell me what you are doing." So I filtered her e-mails (so messages from him gets automatically deleted), and blocked his phone numbers.

One difficulty I'm seeing is that as my wife is crying over this OM and as I am trying to 'win her back' and show my care for her, there are lots of things that I'm doing or did that gets her very upset. She gets very angry still that I exposed her. She is pissed that even though she and I both agreed to work on the marriage, I am still continuing with the divorce paperwork. She is not happy that I am not taking her back into the apartment. She actually AGREES with keeping her cut off with financial support, as she said she wants to find a job so that she can be able to say she is contributing to the marriage finances. But, she is upset because it's going to be even harder to find a job now, since I'm not letting her finish up her one semester to get her degree.

But the biggest problem is a logistical one. Since she is not in our apartment, she is staying with a female friend in her dorm room. Of course, it's impossible to know what is happening there in the dorm; as mentioned before college is a huge breeding ground of OM. I asked my wife if she could stay elsewhere, and she said since she had no finances or a job yet, she can't get a place, and that's the only friend that was willing to take her in.

I feel that having my wife being out of our apartment causes two huge problems: it makes it difficult to strengthen our own relationship, and she is at huge risk in the dorm. It's going to take super snooping to make sure she stays on the 'straight and narrow' while we are separated, and even that might not be enough. So I am wavering on how long to keep her out of the apartment; I feel for all my EP's, having separate living conditions makes almost all my EP's worthless.

So sorry for the long post everyone. It's day one of recovery, after all, and lots of information to share. Comments (and 2x4's) are always welcome.

Jah I think you should schedule an appointment with the Marriahe builders Coaching service.

I don't know what the rest thinks, but I think you should move in together and spend as much time together as possible.

JAH, you have jumped about three chapters in the Recovery Handbook in the last four days.

Now STOP!

You are REACTING to events instead of MASTERING them. Before your little t�te-a-t�te, you should have had clear plans for what the next steps should be.

WW has to live somewhere. Having her live in a shared-dorm environment with a clutch of horned-up college students is probably NOT in your best interest. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to find a convent to stow her in, so your choices are either at home with you, or in a separate domicile (apartment?) Yes, I know allowing her back home seems like "granting" her a consideration she does not merit, but the advantages (surveillance, proximity) probably outweigh the costs.

You will be proceeding with the poly; she should be arranging for STD screens. Have her in a separate room (sleeping among the ashes went out with central heating, unfortunately), but look at your situation with a higher degree of objectivity, okay?

If it doesn't work, you may re-change the locks; they ain't THAT expensive!

HDW - What is the 'coaching service'? Is that the online MB program? I am doing that, my wife has agreed (she is not reluctant or in strong favor of it. She just says she is willing to do it)

NG - Okay, I do objectively feel that it's better for her to move back. I did have a plan; it's just that yesterday was my first day coming 'out of the dark' with plan B, so it's not like I knew what the whole situation was like. Honestly, since she is willing to go through the MB program, I'd rather just have her at home and we work through it together.

oh jah. how strong you must be to have listed to all that fogbabble! while it's good she was honest with you, it must really hurt that while she was calling you & IM, she was sleeping with this guy. i'm so sorry for your pain.

you have definitely jumped too far ahead without a plan. can i chime in a third vote to contact the coaching center? you can schedule an appt here.

i know it's expensive, but if you drop your two separate MCs, you can afford it. and frankly, it''s worth every penny. plus, it's crisis/recovery focused, not unlimited. you work on your plan, specifically. no sitting around moaning about this or that. it really will be the best money you ever spend. steve (or jennifer) can get you going on a plan asap. the first thing steve will probably tell you is that if you're ready to work on recovery, your WW needs to be at home. but don't do anything until you speak with him, ok? NG gave you some good advice about the residence for WW. think outside the box there. is there a weekly-stay motel nearby? is there an apt free in your bldg?

ideally, she should be at home. as you've seen from your conversation with her, any "free" time away from you results in an instant "get with a guy" mentality. this is very dangerous for you and any recovery. she needs an extensive mental overhaul.

book an appt. that's job 1 for today.

Letty - Thanks for the link. (and HDW for the first suggestion) I wasn't sure if the 'online program' was the same thing; now I know it isn't. I will make an appointment today.

If you're going to walk the path of recovery she needs to be at home with you.

Listen to this about withdrawal because that's what your WW is going to be going through.
Radio clip on withdrawal from OP
Segment #2
Segment #3

Okay, I called to try and make an appointment. Since I am in Hawaii with the time difference, I told them I'll take the first appointment, anytime, any day (meaning the appointment might be at 2 AM, but that's fine with me).

Will let you know how it goes. Nobody actually answered, but hopefully they can get back to me soon. I guess its 4th of july thats why.

So . . . Happy 4th of July everyone! I'm to keep positive here.

omgosh, it's the 4th!


happy independence day american folks!

Jah,

Besides the other clips I just posted here's another good one about withdrawal.
Radio clip on withdrawal

Also instead of just blocking OM's email your WW needs to change all her contact information. So he has no way to contact her.

Wow Jah, you are rocking this!

So impressed.

Would your WW post here do you think? We're good at busting up fog

Impressed by your ability to listen and employ these tactics, JAH. Wishing you the best.

If you go back and read the first responses by the vets in this thread, they expressed little hope that your wife can be true. I still think they're right. Not easy for me to say, as I support your effort to save your marriage. But I just doubt her ability to change, and I would hate to see you hurt again.

Continue to stay strong and keep a tight rein on her. If you want to recover, she has to be in the house, and the two of you must spend over 15 hours of time together.

Personally, because she is a repeat offender, I think she's a lost cause and she'll be trouble and heartache for you should you take her back. Not sure you want to spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. But I am encouraged by your ability to draw a hard line and set limits. You've gotten past enabling, and that's great.

indie, I would love to agree this is normal fog we see around here, but I'm not buying it one damned bit. This woman isn't addicted to one particular man, she's addicted to a lifestyle of actively seeking attention and affection from sources outside her marriage. She has a character flaw that's going to take some serious attention to get corrected, if it can be at all.

Personally, I think she's in a tailspin panic that her gravy train is leaving the station and she's not on it, so she's now going to do whatever she can to prolong her ride until she can 1) provide her own gravy train ticket, or 2) find someone else to buy her a ticket. Call me cynical if you want, but I just don't buy any of this so called remorse at all.

Not...one...bit.

jah, tread ever so lightly here for your own protection and sanity. I know you're enthused by what you're seeing, but keep your guard up. I truly do hope I'm wrong and she is remorseful, but right now my instincts and radar are on fire.

Again, pal, nothing would make me happier to be dead wrong, and I do like what she is doing, but something just doesn't smell right.

If I were you I would be very careful.

That's why I would have her post here as well as doing everything else.

Another set of watchful eyes.

That is just something I would need in addition to the watchful eyes from exposure, professional help of the counselling centre, snooping tools, transparency etc.

I wouldn't trust my own judgment to be objective and I know of no better character judges than those on these boards

I think even though she is moving back home they should not be officially back together or anything like that. Tread lightly, as you say.

Separate rooms, arms length and a 'prove it to me' attitude.

You've been here longer than me so I'll bow to your answer to this question:

Do you think it's a good idea to bring her here right now? If she isn't sincere, and I'm actually right (for a change), then he loses this place as a source of information and assistance. From my point of view, he has nothing to gain from introducing her to MB right now. Perhaps later, but not now. He can introduce the concepts in a generic way, but not reveal the source of those concepts at the same time.

I agree with TW.