It does make sense but it isn't easy and not black and white for me. His efforts have not gone unnoticed by me. I just wish his efforts were directed closer to the target.

Sorry NED. I guess my reply was really to the entire thread and the turn it is taking. Thank you for your encouragement.

Thanks Prisca.

I did have this discussion with him last night, and he did take it as a threat of me leaving the marriage if he didn't do it the MB way. I knew he would take it that way, and he said he was crushed.

I explained that things have been too difficult for me to express to him...that he hasn't been a very good listener.

Last night he agreed to my EPs because he thought they were a good idea. Do you see why I get conflicted? The other day he didn't want to do it. Now he does. He said the reason he didn't agree at first was because he didn't like what I was insinuating by telling him I was uncomfortable. I didn't bring up our past until it became a long, drawn-out battle.

That's the way it has been with him. He has not been willing outright to do what I tell him I need. I have to fight for it.

Always.

I told him I need 3rd party help from MB in some way. He could choose counseling with the Harley's, do the online program, or post here.

He was very upset by this. He felt I was demanding.

I told him that I cannot accept this marriage in continuing in the direction it is going. I pointed out some marriages around us, and I told him we are headed down the same path if we do not do something about it. That is not what I want.

He does not either, but I need to see action.

He doesn't like this forum, but he did say he would try it. We will see. I'm going to try not to bring it up again and just see what actions he actually takes.

He did bring up all the ways he has been trying to meet my needs, and I agree he has been trying. But he has not been hitting the mark. I was trying to help him get the most bang for his buck so to speak. He felt like I completely dismissed all of his prior actions.

I am very tired today. Very worn out. Very conflicted as to whether or not I did the right thing.

I did email the Harley's twice and have not heard back.

And I realize I didn't Plan A for three weeks, but I did great all last week. I think I'm just very worn out, and it is hard for me not to be transparent. Just the thought of having this conversation with him was getting me worked up.

Last night after going to bed I woke up with horrible stomach pains, and I've been nauseated all day.

The Harleys were out of the country for a few weeks. So you might want to send it again and notify the MODS again.

Also excellent radio clips. I almost thought it was you.

Tell us what you think.
Radio clip on DJ/AO
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

You did good.

I clicked notify on your post and asked the Mods to help you get in touch with Dr. Harley.

The thing about "the MB way" is that it's not just a bunch of arbitrary rules. It's the basic thoughtfulness and caring that is expected in marriage. It's not an "above and beyond the call of duty" thing. The fact is, a relationship where husband and wife protect each other (do not love bust), follow the policy of joint agreement (the basic, simple thoughtfulness of not doing things your spouse isn't enthusiastic about), and care for each other (meet emotional needs) is a marriage. A relationship where one partner is refusing to do one or all of these things is not really a marriage; it's a relationship where someone who is "married" wants to continue to live an unconstrained, single lifestyle!

He is balking under the constraint that this program would impose on him, because he is not willing to care. He wants what he is doing now to be recognized as care. But you can't change the basic way human nature works; receiving something else as "care" will be just as bad for you emotionally (and physically) as eating dirt instead of food and calling it "food."

(((Anointed)))

I've been following your post. You're getting great encouragement and feedback here, and I just want to tell you that I'm sorry it's so hard.

I completely agree that you need actions - not words. You seem to be at the point of giving up, and he'll need to impress you with caring.

One thing I'd like to mention, since having little money seems to get you down: having spent $3000 in counseling with "the BEST" - Steve Harley - your H will either be thoughtful and caring (i.e. "married") or not - no amount of money, counseling, posting, or program can make him decide to become a caring husband. It will have to come from inside of him.

Either his selfishness will break, or his marriage will. You are choosing the marriage - He must choose one or the other. And that's FREE.

I believe in the skilled advice of posters here, and of Steve, and of the entire MB program! But it's the old: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink," adage. Your H knows what he needs to do to save his marriage.

I pray he does it.

He said: Why does it not work the other way- you meet my needs and I reciprocate? I could be wrong, and this speaks of the vicious cycle, but why does the man have to move before the woman? It obviously works best when both parties work together.

Yes, it obviously does work best when both parties work together. So why doesn't he start?

Markos would LOVE to talk to him about this if he'll show up.

He is also a far cry from "having" to move first. You've been working on this for at least a year. It's time for him to to finally do his part!

It doesn't have to matter who goes first. Like Prisca pointed out, you have gone first. But at some point if it doesn't become a joint effort it is difficult and discouraging to maintain.

Thanks BH! It was so nice of you to start a thread just for me! I did update flashplayer on my laptop and I made sure the active x controls were on. It still doesn't work on the laptop or the desktop. I can get it to work on my ipad though.

This clip is excellent. This could be my husband. I've often thought that his need to address every detail in our lives is related to anxiety. He doesn't necessarily disagree with that.

I have actually said to my DH what DrH suggested....many, many, many times. But I think I probably had a frustrated tone with him. I don't think I was sweet. That is so tough! I'm feeling criticized, but I still have to choose to sound pleasant and kind in the face of it.

I can sometimes do it, but I'd say I show my frustration in my tone.

So we have had hours and hours of discussion this weekend. It has been a hellish time. He keeps hearing that I'm leaving him. I keep saying that is not what I want, but I get to choose the paths I walk in life. I told him I can't continue down the path we are going. I'm turning another way. Will he go with me?

He still kept hearing that I wanted to leave and it's all his fault.

I have not been good at addressing his concerns right away when he points them out because he sounds so judgemental and critical. To get down to it, I have not been good at admitting when I'm wrong to him. He doesn't make it easy at all.

Even so, I made a point to try and say "yes I have done that. I am willing to change."

He told me that I was disrespectful during our long conversations this weekend, and I just felt so defeated. He has always said that I don't apply the same rules to myself that I want him to follow. When he pointed out that I was raising my voice I tried correcting it.

I saw that there is a new newsletter on how emotional people can POJA. I better read that.

So last night I went to him and told him that I don't want to leave. I want a good marriage.

He said that since his affairs he has been living in fear that I would leave him, and I told him that since his affairs I have been afraid of the same and have basically had one eye open and one foot out the door. I had never felt safe.

Since I have brought up separating so many times, he is so hurt and afraid. I told him that recently I figured out that I am now a buyer. But I am only a buyer in a MUTUALLY satisfying relationship. Otherwise I cannot continue.

I told him that he deserved a good marriage. One where the past is never discussed again. One where I meet his needs and show care and concern. I told him I was sorry for all the times I threatened to leave. I told him I didn't know what to do, but now I do. And I'm committed to doing it.

He said, "I don't think you have ever said that before."

He told me he was sorry.

Last night he said he planned to post on here and fill out the EN questionaire. I ended up helping him work late, so we didn't get to it.

I know he has created a log in here. I hope we are making progress. I'll wait to see if he posts.

These are also a pretty good reflection of us. My DH doesn't lose his temper in front of many people. Always looks like he has it together. I don't know if he believes it is possible to ever NOT lose one's temper.

Thanks for these BH.

This is a very understandable fear, because your marriage hasn't recovered. If he will take the time to follow the program and develop a loving, romantic marriage, that fear will go away.

Great
Do you know his handle?

Yes I texted him and it is ShipAtSea.