I'm struggling because I guess I feel like I have no one to talk to. None of my friends or family support trying. 3 people have told me that I have no respect for myself and that is evidenced by me thinking of trying with him. I am working very hard on stopping all love busters. I think we had a nice day yesterday, he agreed.
I try to talk to him nicely and without judgement and I feel like the second I am upset he shuts down. really struggling to talk wo being upset. I know he's badly struggling as well so I'm trying to talk without the djs and such to him. I'm not saying things to him like I said above and am trying not to think them as well.

He is back at home with you?

Are you verifying NC?

Will you write Dr. H?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

He may be in withdrawal.

How much UA are you getting? Are you meeting the top 4 EN during this time?

If you're going to walk the path of recovery she needs to be at home with you.

Listen to this about withdrawal because that's what your WW is going to be going through.
Radio clip on withdrawal from OP
Segment #2
Segment #3

We are at home. I am verifying nc, but tonight he said he'll block me from his account again if I keep asking questions about who all the various texts are to, that I only have access to check for texts from her. That doesn't seem like he's ready to do what he needs to do to have full transparency but I know he was saying it out of anger. Does that make a difference?
I think it is withdrawl, he has to work up there each day and he works w a guy whose cheated several times before. Even before this I told him that guy was not a good person to be around each day. He refuses to get a different job because he's high up there and basically sets his own work day, and I think that might be a deal breaker for me, bc I don't see how he can deal with this and be in that area. I didn't initially require it as a condition as until the house sells we need him to keep that job regardless, but I think it's going to be a big issue.

Sorry. I think you need to go back to Plan B. He's not serious. Can you do this?

He broke one of your conditions. Complete transparency.

I think he thinks he's serious about trying. He honestly doesn't understand why it's an issue, partly bc it never was before. His phone was always password protected and I never had his cell acct pw before now. It never occurred to me to need anything. So this is a bit of a shock. As he didn't do anything yet to hinder transparency, should I plan B now or wait until he does?

I'll need a new IM as well. Guess its time to start asking friends again.

Wait until he what?

He's going into Plan B?

When he has cheated and IF he's serious about recovery then he should be happy to be completely transparent.

You should go back to Plan B, so he knows you're serious.

This advice is good for you also.

Guess I'm succumbing to ww garbage. I actually felt dumb earlier pushing the issue about all the texting and not knowing whose numbers it was even though I could see them.

You're not dumb. What were your conditions if he broke a condition? An EP?

He's gaslighting you. My WH share a phone I see everything.

Read this.
Please explain gaslighting

Well, I didn't want to make everything about if he breaks a condition it's all done.
He told me, it's a woman up there who is also working on her marriage. I told him that was not acceptable as I did not feel comfortable with another woman being involved in our marriage again, especially so soon. His response was that there is no attraction, there would be no affair. I explained about EAs and then he finally said in an angry tone he wouldn't talk w her anymore. He says he was talking to her bc he cannot tell me things about the affair and even if he could, he won't bc it's private and he will never tell.
It was a very angry conversation, basically he said many of his friends knew of the affair and no one told me bc they don't care about me and me telling them was me trying to turn them against him and how could I ever think that would work. (I didn't do that and I didn't bash him in any way, I was merely asking them to help. I thought over the course of 10 yrs, they were my friends too)
I told him I never thought that, my dads BFF has cheated on his wife (they R'd and are happy now for several yrs) and while my dad did not approve and told him he'd never lie for him, my dad never thought of not being friends with him. (My dad says now he wishes he and my mom told her, after seeing what I am going through.) H knew all about dad's BFF and how I even struggled reconciling the guy I loved as my uncle w someone who would do that to his wife. So why would he think I would ever assume his friends would turn against him after my dads example growing up? It doesn't make sense.
Is that gas lighting as well? Seems silly to be upset over since they haven't dropped him or anything since they formally found out. He said they don't approve, but they haven't really said anything too harsh to my understanding.

I'm not certain of what kind of conditions to apply, we are already sleeping seperately, do you mean things like that?
This morning he texted me from work and apologized for getting angry and for saying nasty things to me last night (his exact words)
Tonight he asked me to be out of the house for the evening bc he cannot deal with talking to me, he feels overwhelmed and cannot even think. I believe him, he looks to be a mess.
He is going to counseling but said he didn't like it bc the counselor didn't ask him enough questions so WH could get answers. I told him this counselors method is to guide and from the beginning he said he wasn't going to tell him the answers, WH has to talk a lot and find his own. So I said well if its not working did you call the other guy? No, he said, thats too far away. (he will only see a man and there is only one man covered by insurance within a 50 mi radius accepting new patients, he's 18 miles away. There are scads of women but as I said he won't go to one).

He is still very wayward.

You need to get back into Plan B and protect yourself.

Your conditions would be these.
1. end all contact with the OW for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about his affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Also please listen to these radio clip about Dr. Harley talks about the conditions that need to be met for recovery.

Tell us what you think.
Radio clip on the conditions that need to be met for recovery at 5:00 mark

Thanks. He has those conditions, with the exception of the polygraph. Right now I do not want to know anything else about the affair, I'm not ready for more. I mean what to do when he breaks one of those conditions...like the cell phone thing, he did tell me and hasn't stopped my access. So I tell him it's back to plan b bc it's about him not being angry and threatening about it even though he didn't actually do anything?
He asked if it was ok if he went to a movie tonight with his friend While I was at a work function and said he'd take photos to show me he was there. And he did. Now of course he could have gotten there, took the photo and left, but it appears to be effort.

What spyware do you have on him?

You need to put GPS and spyware on his phone and then you'll know.

Can you do this?

No, he's got his phone jailbroken, he'll definitely know. He's been screwing around w changing phone settings etc for years now bc he doesn't like the standard phone set ups. He does have a var in his car, and I ordered a gps for it as well.
It's not that I do not want there to be a consequence, but like a child, I don't want to give the impression that everything gets the plan b consequence as then I fear it will become less of a consequence when I want that to be THE big one.
Am I looking at this wrong? Is everything equally essential at this point?
(I really want to know, if I'm being naive I want to hear that and will change)

He did start reading mb principles and had definitely agreed to follow them. Before he was angry last night he was brainstorming ways to spend time together, like board games, some outings etc. (for example, for the 4th we took a tour of a place we talked about going to maybe 8 or 9 yrs ago and never did. It was his idea.)

Yes you're being naive. If he will not follow the EPs then you're setting yourself up for a false recovery.

Him texting OW is a deal breaker. He may never change. Please get back into Plan B and protect yourself.

What about calling the MB coaching center or do the online course?

What about at least emailing Dr. Harley?

I wasn't thinking of this new person as another OW, but as he shouldn't be talking to any female about personal things, I see now she is, regardless of how short lived it may have been. Thank you for being honest.
I did email the harleys yesterday.
This is really new to me as well, because I never cared who he talked to before, male or female and he never had female friends to my knowledge, but I didn't think it was an issue. His phone was always pw protected , but then again, I don't know anyone's that isn't except my own parents, even in other marriages. mine isn't, bc I have nothing to hide and bc I just think its annoying, not bc I related it to my marriage in any way. 6 mo ago I would have agreed he and I both deserved privacy in our marriage bc I would not want to stifle our own individuality.
I have a lot I need to change about my own perceptions I see.