Last night was rough.

I am going to try to make this short, because this is not quite MB protocol.

I told my wife she did not end the affair or follow my conditions, so we are separated again; do not contact me anymore from this point on. She started to argue and I hung up and went to work. I was on call last night at the hospital. I didn't have time to write another plan B letter (should I really do that?) and I couldn't reach my IM.

My wife called, texted, and paged me about 20 times; I ignored them all. Then at 1 AM, she somehow got from the dorm where she is staying to the hospital.

I looked her in the eye, with a firm but emotionless face, and told her, "I don't love you anymore. Get out of my life. I want a divorce and that is it."

She was crying and begging me to give her one last chance, making excuses that she was weak, willing to do anything, blah blah blah.

To get her to shut up, I started listing some additional conditions, to get her to say, "No, I am not willing to do that" so I could just prove my point (that she isn't willing to do anything). Surprisingly, she readily agreed to every one.

"Would you be willing to go on speakerphone with OM and verbally express no contact, with me there to tell him also?" -Yes.
"Would you back-up my story so that I can sue this OM; Hawaii law states I can sue him for adultery." -Yes.
"Would you go with me to his workplace and department, speak directly to his supervisors, and tell them what he did with you and that it was wrong." -Yes.
"Right now I have our divorce already filed. I will redo the paperwork so that if you mess up one more time, you end up getting nothing. Would you accept that?" -Yes.

That last one, she didn't even pause or waver to answer "Yes".

I wanted to make sure she understood that one, so I told her more slowly and carefully, looking her in the eye, "Right now, I want to divorce. The court will split everything we own 50/50. And they may or may not force me to support you after that. But if you want another chance, I will have my lawyer draft a new divorce paperwork. It will state you get nothing and no support. If you mess up one more time, I am going to accept that immediately. And I will also draft a post-nuptual agreement stating if you have another affair, I can leave you and you get nothing and no support also."

She agreed to this one too. No hesitation. Then she said she loved me and begged me to forgive her and give her one more chance. I told her I don't know, that I would talk to Dr. Harley, tell him the situation, and ask him if he agrees with me that there is no chance.

What do you think? I already know that this is nothing but words, no action. Words mean NOTHING.

But if I draft up that new divorce paperwork and post-nup, what have I got to lose? I already feel emotionally detached. When I told her "Get out of my life. I want a divorce." I didn't feel angry, or sad, or upset, or happy. I felt indifferent.

I'll update you on what Dr. Harley says. Sorry, I thought that was the end of my posting last night but it seems not.

Jah, I think you handled that perfectly. The only thing I would change is having her call the OM. A better way is for her to cancel her phone #, change her email so he can't call. Speaking to him again will only trigger her feelings. And of course you would have to have full access to her phone and phone records to ensure compliance. Can you cancel her phone service?

I would also secretly get spyware on her phone that has a built in GPS. Eblaster and flexispy have GPS. Eblaster runs around 65 and is easy to install.

That sounds cOntradictory. I meant to say, cancel her current phone and get spyware on her NEW phone. Or if you can simply change the number, the put spyware on that phone.

Well, jah, you've had quite an interesting 24 hours. I'll be honest with you though, I'm not totally buying it, and I can see you're not either. But hey, if we're both wrong, then you are off to the new start that you've been working so hard for. If we aren't wrong when it comes time for rubber to meet the road, then I don't think you'll be too much more worse for the wear than you are now. I think she's reached her threshold of being able to hurt you anymore than she already has. So, if this is what you want to attempt, then game on.

Totally with Melody on how you handled this confrontation. Seems you have been listening and learning after all. That's some pretty good stuff off the cuff and in the heat of the moment. Nicely done.

I also want to touch on something else. You mentioned about your quitting posting. Think back to where you were when you first came here and where you are now. Think you would be where you are now without the help you've received here? You got beat up some, but if you're honest with yourself, you got quite a bit of awesome assistance and guidance along with the beatings. Happens all the time here. Nobody is picking on you, it's just the way it is. Remember, it's tough (sometimes REALLY tough) love, but we do care. Think about it; why else would we be here?

indie made a post the other day that resonated with me about BS's coming here looking for pats on the back and "there, there" kind of support. You'll get plenty enough of that, but as she said, they also soon realize they have waltzed into a marital recovery boot camp. That truly does sum up the nature of this board and website. Very helpful, but very tough. It's not for sissy's!

Thanks ML and TW.

Yes, at this point I'm emotionally detatched; there's not much my wife can do to hurt me anymore. I will talk to Dr. Harley on monday, get a plan. See if he still recommends working on this, and the online program I signed up for.

In the meantime, I'm going to have my wife move back. I don't have any work for the next 6 weeks; so I can watch my wife, get her through withdrawal, and start rebuilding our marriage a bit. I know it's opening myself up again for likely betrayal, but I am also going to have my lawyer ASAP draft up a new divorce paperwork and post-nuptual (stating my wife gets nothing if we divorce). So if I am betrayed, I'll end up the better for it. Keep in mind, though; everyone here keeps thinking I am a physician so I must have it made. I have 6x more school debt than savings right now! I'm a physician just starting off.

And TW, I do agree that I learned alot here. I could never imagine standing up to my wife like I did last night. Only TWO weeks ago, I would have been a wimpering mess, begging and pleading with my wife, telling HER I would do anything to get her back. This time, I must have said, "No, you have hurt me enough. Get out of my life." to my wife about 15 times over 2 hours as she asked me and begged me over and over and over to take her back. Do you know how indifferent I felt? While my wife was crying her mind out at the fact that I wanted a divorce, there was one point where I caught myself falling asleep! (It was 2 AM, though). It was only when I gave her those conditions and she agreed that I rethought things a bit.

TW - Yes, I know people here care, and those 2x4's are nothing but 'tough love'. Actually, I would often end my posts saying, "Keep those 2x4's coming". But what happened is I was trying my best to follow directions in the SAA book, and even though I might have done it wrong, suddenly people were bashing me, telling I'm not serious, not showing any effort, not following advice, and they were quitting on me. So I felt like quitting also.

I will continue to post. I will let you all know how it goes with the 'coaching session.' I will tread very lightly. I will keep my expectations low and boundaries high. And whether it works out or not, I'll stick around here; no quitting. You have all helped me; the best way to repay you is to support others here on the forum also. Thanks again. Oh, and keep those 2x4's coming!

I woul have the lawyer draft the paperwork BEFORE she moves back in.
You may have a more difficult time getting her OUT again if she continues er infidelity

I completely understand your frustration in all this with the SAA book and all. This is SOP in most cases on this board, but didn't apply to yours at all. Frankly, collectively, this is our fault on this point. That book never should've been suggested to you because your situation didn't fit that mold, as it normally does around here. I can fully see why you were so frustrated. I apologize for that. It doesn't matter who initially suggested it, because any one of us would have.

I would suggest getting all this legal stuff done ASAP, and if she hesitates on signing ONE document, well then.......

Wes, it is SOP to demand conditions in order to break Plan B. That is Plan B 101. In order to reconcile, the WS has to end contact with the OP. That condition is not unique to Plan B. in this case, the WW had not even met the 1st condition, which was the problem.

That detail is explained in SAA.

"TW - Yes, I know people here care, and those 2x4's are nothing but 'tough love'. Actually, I would often end my posts saying, "Keep those 2x4's coming". But what happened is I was trying my best to follow directions in the SAA book, and even though I might have done it wrong, suddenly people were bashing me, telling I'm not serious, not showing any effort, not following advice, and they were quitting on me. So I felt like quitting also."

I am glad you are back today. I had to be peeled off the ceiling when I saw she had not even ended her affair. Thankfully, you understand now that these conditions are absolutely non negotiable and have stepped up to the plate. Serial cheater or not,the conditions for vacating plan B are the same. Be careful and take it slow!

Mel, I understand what you are saying, but I just don't think that SAA was the path he needed to take fully. From his point of view, he was instructed by the book to Plan A from the beginning leading to a PB. He should've been PB from the start. This is where I think he got confused. That's all I meant about the book. IMHO, the Plan A part of it didn't apply because of him being the victim of a serial cheater.

Again, JMO, it never has been about what he hasn't done, it's been more about what she is as a person.

Plan A is not going to change that.

SAA is exactly the path for him. In it, the conditions of plan B are defined along with a plan for recovery. It wasnt the book that caused the problem. He already knew that plan A was not warranted.The issue was that he abandoned his conditions for reconciliation in plan b.

jah, where are you?

I was just wondering that too!

lol! hope he's around and not run away.

@BrainHurts got the size of it right. I renamed myself when I realized that my doormat-like behavior had not only not been the right approach toward ending the affair. It had ENABLED the affair. My "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" philosophy, combined with stupidly loose boundaries had also made it possible.

So I changed my moniker shortly after I exposed the affair. Playing doormat is NEVER the right approach. Be fair, be forgiving, be all the good things a husband should be, but NEVER be willing to compromise what your marriage can become for the sake of avoiding conflict.

Doormat_No_More and that his exactly why I like to suggest your posts to BH who have a difficult time taking a stance with their WW.

IMO you set a very good example of using MB principles and standing up for them and you can see that in your posts. Your thread was one of the first I followed.

I hope you don't mind me referencing your threads? I guess I should've asked for permission first?

I am still here. Not posting as much because my wife is back in the apartment. Some quick updates:

Had the first meeting with Dr. Harley. Actually, most of the time was done getting to know our case and talking with my wife. We have several more meetings scheduled.

My wife tells me daily: "I have not had any direct or indirect contact with OM since the last time I mentioned this."

My wife is instructed to tell me immediately if the OM contacts her; she has already done this; he tried to call her at the dorm. She hung up and let me know immediately. This is one reasons she is back in the apartment.

My wife has been reading SAA and has been having some of the fog cleared. I'm sure the meeting with Dr. Harley also helped.

We have started the online seminar together. We sit together to watch the video and then go out for lunch to discuss what we think.

My wife explained to me why the affairs happened. But she told me clearly that it is not my fault at all, that it was her to blame because she did not have her guard up.

She is following all the conditions I have set forth. She used to follow them grudgingly, but now she is more accepting and follows them readily and understands why they were made.

She has started to want other conditions that show she really is thinking of the marriage. For example, one of my conditions was to remove all male non-relative friends and go on facebook only in my presence. After removing the non-relative friends, she decided instead she wants us to erase both our accounts and make one together; that we both have access and work on it together, can both share what is happening in our lives.

So that's the update. I'm still having low expectations and high boundaries. Things are looking a little better, though. Maybe at some point she might join the forum?

Jah, when is your next meeting with the Harleys?

Jah, I am not experienced at recovery so will likely just follow along and bow to others with more experience.

I did have a few thoughts as I am trying to learn about this myself and your journey IS helping with this.

I am still concerned this is a FR... especially with this...

You know a wayward's talk is cheap.

Jah, you are still basing your recovery on her words. She SAYS she hung up immediately. Have you any means of verifying this?

Okay, this is a step in the right direction and possibly some fog is clearing. HOWEVER, if I was trying recovery with a serial cheater... FB would be out totally. Its just too much of a risk.

Keep the bar high, especially with tranparency. I hope you are still snooping like a bloodhound.

BTW, did she sign the nup agreement?

I did want to say, well done on sounding calm and cautious.