BTW, THIS was real good:


You've really become a good MBer

Perception is everything, and it's a two-way street, as you demonstrate here. Just as he doesn't get to pick your perception, you really can't force his either.

I do like the way you put this. Instead of saying you are leaving, you framed this in a more positive fashion. I want to go another direction, and I'd like you to go with me in that direction. I think this makes a rather polite request. Those are preferred of selfish demands. A threat could be interpreted as that, and from your description, it appears he took what you said as a threat.

Another two-way street. I think he has said in word and/or deed you don't make it easy for him.
It makes it a tough sell when you don't appear to follow the same rules you want him to follow.
Again, neither of you felt safe. You each feared different things, but neither felt safe.
Be careful, the BUT statement here may negate what you said before. I suggest you say that you are willing to buy into a mutually satisfying relationship.

Make sure you ask in a fashion that doesn't bring up the past. Like, can I see your EN questionnaire? Not, "you said you would do it, where is it?"

It's kinda hard to sell the idea you are not going to discuss the past again and then hold the past over his head.

I think I've read every post and reply that Annointed has ever made/received. Some of them are heartbreaking, others are heart-mending. It's been over a decade for us; I don't think people ever really "recover" from an affair, neither person.
Yep, we're still trying though.

Welcome ship.

Do you want to start your own thread so we can help?

I fell asleep on the couch last night waiting for ShipAtSea to finish working. I can see now that he was reading and made a small post. He did ask yesterday if I was sending y'all to attack him, and I said no.

I appreciate that he posted. I hope he continues.

It was very late when he woke me up to get in bed. I wanted to have SF but he said he was too tired. Then I had stomach pains and couldn't sleep til almost 3am. He said he's not mad at me, but I'm not convinced. It is doing a number on me physically.

Good to see you here, Ship

Many people here would disagree with you on that, because they are living in recovered marriages.

We'd love to help you and Anointed build a fulfilling marriage where the past is never brought up again. Are you willing to try?

I'll echo Brainhurts and request that you create your own thread. We generally recommend that spouses don't post to each others threads, as it can cause problems.

Welcome aboard, Ship. It is good to see you here.

We're not here to attack you. We're here to help you through what it takes to have a good marriage.

At this point, I personally do not think the affair is the big issue in your marriage. I think it's problems of the present. On your own thread, can you give us a brief summary of what you feel the present problems in your marriage are, and what you believe your wife's perspective is? What would need to change for your marriage to be good, for both of you? (Even if you feel it's impossible, what changes, possible or not, would be required?)

Also, Ship, have you read the Basic Concepts here?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

You can read them, or watch on video if you prefer:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1000_video.html

Thanks Enlightened.

You are right. I have not been caring. I have seen my side of things and shut down many, many times.

I know it is my responsibility to care for him. I am committed to doing so.

And thanks for the reminder on how to not bring up the past.

I told ShipAtSea that he had some responses, and he said, "Great." (not enthusiastically) I told him the responses weren't mean, and he said "I would hope not."

He seems upset by all my posts he read. We had lunch together and he hugged and kissed me. But he is not open emotionally. I can sense it.

I'm so sick and uncertain.

Truthfully, as I said, I have had this fear in the back of my mind that one day he will decide I am too much trouble and abandon me. After reading my heartfelt posts, I'm not sure that time hasn't come.

I think that is why i try to be as amicable as possible, not rocking the boat too much at a time. I asked what hurt him about my posts and he mentioned a couple of things. I said, "I told you about all of it."

He said, "you may have given me the general idea but not like what you wrote."

It may be a good idea for him to create his own thread, and ya'll not read each others threads for awhile. It's not a requirement that you don't read each others threads, but until you can talk about each other respectfully 100% of the time, this precaution may help protect your lovebanks.

Hi Anointed,

Did I hear Dr. Harley answer your questions on the radio yesterday? I'm going to go listen again and try to really absorb what he said. I hope it encourages you!

You are a great example to me of how to behave in marriage, even under stress. For the record, telling your H what you need (3rd party MB help) and what you can't continue to put up with (not getting help) is not a threat. It's a healthy boundary, and an honest expression of what you can and cannot do. Continue to stay strong, speak your truth.

I wish I could lend you some courage, some freedom from fear. I will only say that Jesus told people to "be courageous" and "do not fear" more times than he exhorted them to do anything else. May this be true of you now. Decisions made out of fear are rarely wise.

Peace to you today.

Ship, are you coming back?

I can try. :P

I texted him today and asked if he would answer your questions. He said he believed he would be able to. I said thank you.

We later talked and I clarified that at this point with his lack of time I'd rather he focus on posting here than meeting my EN. He said okay, but he was just trying to do what I'd asked. I told him that since he had so little time that I think it's best spent on this forum for now. I don't know if that was wise.

He doesn't necessarily trust y'all, and I don't blame him. He hasn't had the same experiences I have had on here. I told him that right now the focus needs to be on counseling, and this is the only counseling we can do right now.

He didn't sound excited about it.

ShipAtSea pointed out some things about me during our conversations and I don't think he is going to discuss it with you. He said he wasn't interested in pointing fingers at me, and I appreciate his heart....but I'd rather he be totally honest about what we struggle with.

He said I have balked on EPs as well. One of them was Facebook. At one point I deleted every male and eventually shut it down. I did that on my own because I was struggling with thoughts about being unfaithful myself and wanted to protect the marriage. Also, I spent a lot on time on it.

I don't know when but I decided to open it again because I missed connecting with far away friends and family. I didn't discuss this with him. Also I added some guys sometimes. He would complain about it sometimes, but I didn't take his complaints seriously. That is something I have changed.

He mentioned Facebook to me over the weekend, and I realized what I had done. I got the approval of every non-family male from Ship. If he didn't agree I took them off. Immediately.

I didn't realize how often I dismissed his complaints. I told myself that he complains about EVERYTHING so why take notice? That was a very disrespectful judgement. I was not caring for him.

I do struggle with his complaints because my #1 need is admiration. I feel criticized a lot. Even so, I am committed to caring for Ship.

SF has been another complicated issue...the whole thing of me not feeling cared for so SF wasn't appealing which in turn caused him to feel uncared for.

So, there, my side of the street hasn't been so squeaky clean, has it?

I didn't realize what I was doing, but now I do.

Oh and last night I came home from eating dinner with his sister and SIL and found him watching some videos on MB. He watched an interview on New Day I think that discussed an overview of MB. Then he watched the His Needs video. Then posted and came to bed.

I felt very cared for.

Listen to his complaints and take them seriously. I get you that complaints can feel critical, but remember that they are GOOD for your marriage. When your husband complains, it gives you an opportunity to show care and protection for him.

Complaints should always be done respectfully, by both of you, free from demands or DJs. But occasionally, he may slip and will make a complaint using a Lovebuster. Give him some grace while he is learning HOW to complain. You may tell him "That felt disrespectful," but also try to hear what his complaint was and address it.

Does he even want you on Facebook? Honestly, if you have struggled with thoughts about being unfaithful, Facebook is a danger to have around.

BTW, if the other problems in the marriage are dealt with -- eliminating Love Busters and you're spending 15 hours of UA together each week meeting intimate EN -- the problem of you not being interested in SF will more than likely take care of itself.

It sounds like you got some great information from Ship about what you can do to improve your marriage for him.

Regarding EPs, or anything else he complained about, a good response is "I'm sorry, Honey; I don't want to be doing anything you aren't enthusiastic about, or having friends you aren't enthusiastic about. I will change that immediately."

I used to be extremely defensive when Prisca found anything I wasn't being thoughtful toward her about (i.e., not following the POJA). She noticed when I started just saying "I'm sorry, I don't want to do that if it upsets you" and following up on stopping whatever behaviors were offending her.

Thanks Prisca. I will work on keeping that perspective when he makes a complaint.


I've thought about this. I'll ask if he feels comfortable with the changes we've made. Now that I'm a stay at home mom, facebook keeps me feeling connected with my girlfriends. I hope he doesn't want me to drop it completely.

I have struggled with thoughts of being unfaithful, but honestly I think I may have done it as punishment in my mind. God showed me a couple of instances when I stayed out pretty late with his sister and didn't let him know when I'd be home or anything. He would complain about being concerned for my safety and I'd kinda feel good about it. I didn't realize it but I remembered all the late nights when I didn't know where he was and it felt good to do it back in a way even though I was being faithful.

Not pretty, is it?

I entertained ideas if being unfaithful at times but never had the intention of follow through. I enjoyed anytime Ship wondered about my faithfulness in any tiny way. I was punishing him. I haven't told him this because I am just fully realizing what a grudge I have been holding.

I am very guilty.