I knew when enough was enough...doesn't mean it wasn't hard to walk away. For me that meant Plan D not B.

The simplest piece of advice I received after all my exWH put me through yet still showed OBVIOUS signs of danger was this:

b_r, if your WH can change/fix himself...he can do it ------------->>over there.

It has been suggested on this thread by myself and several others that your H exhibits many similarities to my x. Examples, serial cheater, habitual gas lighter, continued trickle truthing & deception despite learning about how important RH is here on this site, etc.

A couple of specific posts that address ways to work on becoming radically honesty went unanswered by your WH as far as a I can tell. Not to mention he hasn't *said* what Dr Harley said he would like to see from my xWH as an indication that he was serious about giving up his SSL.

Dr Harley basically told me that my H was an addict, can't control himself and that all opportunity for SSL and cheating needs to be taken away, that I can't count on him to protect me through honesty and EPs. I don't think you understand that that's a real possibility with your WH....that he will never really protect you. That you can never let your guard down with him, for one minute, for the rest of your life.

And even if you eliminate all opportunity for him to have an affair, that you will have a lot of difficulty achieving true intimacy in your M due to his problems with RH (along the lines of what Pep is saying...)

If you want to proceed in a R with him, I just hope that you understand these things.

What is Plan D? A & B are easy to find, but I have never seen any writing on C & D.

Plan D- Divorce
Plan C- confusion (not good!)- not doing anything or following a plan precisely

Thank you Rocketqueen.

AI, It has taken me 2 YEARS to finally get this through my hopeful thick skull. I still can't wrap my brain around it, but I have finally realized that my "waiting" didn't matter to my H.

Addicts don't change unless they hit rock bottom or some major accident or something so HUGE happens, that the pain from that is greater than anything else, and THEN they realize the error of their ways. Even then, some can't/won't change. Some major event isn't going to make your husband suddenly able to connect or know how to filet himelf with complete intimacy.

Your husband isn't in any real pain or suffering. What is his currency? Living at home, able to afford his addictions, choices, hiding behind a wall of secrecy - no one knows. You cooking, taking care of the children, taking care of the house, "loving him through it." He has it MADE!!!!

These coping mechanisms he turns to to make himself feel better, make himself feel loved, meet needs, are much more important to him and more powerful than your marriage/your relationship. His continued choices to do these things prove that.

Take away everything as he knows it. He needs to face what he has lost and still stands to lose. He needs to do the work for himself first. He is lost. There is nothing you can do to make him want anything different. He has to figure that out for himself.

AI, I've been following along today for the most part, and I just wanted to add something: there's a problem with the thinking above ("My understanding is that the reason for Plan A (make no mistake, I'm aware we're not in Plan A territory here) is that you need the peace of mind from knowing you did everything you could to make it work before going to plan B.") is that his failures are completely ON HIM and BY HIM and BECAUSE OF HIM, not you. There is no question in your marriage as to whether you did everything you could do or not.

Unfortunately, your abusive husband has been gaslighting you and encouraging you to be afraid of the possibility that recovery might not succeed, and it might be because of you.

Plan D is a euphemism for divorce. It's not a Dr. Harley plan, although a person might divorce in either Plan B or Plan A. Some people have the idea that if you want to divorce there is no reason to Plan B, which is a mistake.

Plan C is chaos, doing your own thing,modifying the plans in non-recommended ways. Being nice one day and not nice the next, doing the 180, acting like an arrogant jerk, "showing her you don't need her so that she will want you again," etc. The result is when you are with your wayward spouse you are making love bank withdrawals, so your chances of recovery are greatly lessened versus Plan A or Plan B. Dr. Harley says it is the least likely to work!

Here on Plan C (which is not a MB plan) and listen to the clips at the end of Dr. Harley talking about Plan C.

BSs... Plan C is not a Plan

To add to these two excellent posts from markos and GloveOil. I wasn't sure if you've seen this or not.

Please Explain Gaslighting

Scotland - yes, plan B if he violates those things. Thanks again for offering as IM...I hope I won't need to take you up on it, but is there a way I could get your email address if I do?

Littlebit, I appreciate your support. Take a look at all the plan b info closing around here for yourself, as well.

black_raven and SusieQ, thanks for sharing those experiences with me. I know those possibilities are real. I'm pretty much in protect-myself mode and very much on the lookout for danger signs. After the last few months of hell, I'm aware of danger signs I never even recognized before...
He's not giving me ANY signs at the moment, and I've never seen him try so hard.
But I'm watching.

Markos and Gloveoil, thank you both. I know the failures here haven't been of my doing. I just wanted to ensure I'd done everything possible this time after NOT doing it right all along. His missteps are his own.
I know I've made every possible effort now, and it's up to him.

Brainhurts, thank you for the link. That gaslighting thread and a few others are a big part of me recognizing what the heck was going on when he was resisting the poly and acting totally nuts (while claiming *I* was acting nuts). This forum and all of you are what gave me the confidence to believe that I was NOT crazy and the way he was acting was not in any way reasonable or justifiable, no matter how convincing he can be.

Anyway...thank you all.

Stress is killing me today and I have no idea why specifically, because he hasn't done anything and is making extreme efforts to ensure he gets done everything necessary. Maybe it's BECAUSE nothing bad has happened for a few days and I'm waiting for a bomb to go off. I don't know.

If you wanted to exchange email information with Scotty you need to hit notify and let the MODS know. Or email the MODS.

oh AI, hang in there. just get through one day at a time. seems cliche, but boy, it's the truth!

Here's the thing AI. You've been running on adrenaline and shock up to this point. It probably hasn't really sunk in yet just what your new life is going to be. You're just now starting to understand that your old life was riddled with dishonesty and meanness that's hard to imagine. You've wanted to 'win' him back and that competitive spirit has been driving you.

I believe it's Melody Lane who has said that the trickiest thing in recovery is the betrayed spouse's resentment. You're going to feel terrible rage and depression at some point after the initial adrenaline wears off.

This might be why people have been so tough about the failure of your wayward to adhere strictly to EP's. He hasn't been 100% in the recovery game with you and this is going to eat at you over time. And if he adds any other violations, you will find yourself thinking about it for months and months past what's happening now.

Please focus on taking good care of yourself. You can only manage him so much. You shouldn't have to be a watchdog or babysitter for him. You cannot live like that forever. Get ready for the pain to intensify and to get a very sick feeling when you look at him. Every time he violates the agreement you've made with each other, you're going to come crashing into a mountain of other grievances.

I really hope he can reform himself and be the husband he promised to be when he married you. You shouldn't have to work so hard to police him or keep him and the truth is, you're not going to want to work that hard very soon. The focus should really be on you, not him.

I couldnt agree more with this. It's hard to understand just how hurt you are in Plan A because you're fuelled by pure adrenaline.

I think your true pain and anger has yet to hit.

In Plan B, I had much less to wrap my head around than you and the wounds didn't start smarting until you have that safe space and stop being watchful. I was in pieces, and one year on, still suffering the occasional low point of depression, though in the main, Plan B prevented further wounds and provided active healing.

I just want you to know this. Plus that Plan B is not final, even though it really seems that way. He can still prove himself away from you, keep his own accountability and earn his way back.

I'm concerned that he didn't post yesterday. What's going on?

Thanks Brain. Good to know.

Letty...one day seems insurmountable. One hour. One minute sometimes. This is terribly hard. Just existing.

Zibbles and indie, I think you're both very right. It's just starting to sink in, and it's so much worse than the horror and adrenaline of discovery and trying to figure out what on earth was going on. I don't even know what to do for myself. I feel kind of paralyzed.

Prisca, we were up late while he worked on getting through a lot of the things I asked him to do. I think he's posting now...we have a bit of a lull around here while the baby is napping.

It's a beautiful day here. I'm going to try and figure out some way to enjoy it.

AI, that is good, self care and all that.

Forgive me if this has already been covered but did you get some ADs? I really think you will need them.

You must take very good care of yourself (lots of treats) and Plan B must be ready for you to implement at a moment's notice.

I am super worried about you.

Your 'paralysed' comment caused my blood to run a bit cold. I think there is a lot more pain to come.

AI, please know that we are sending our hope and positive energy your way. Stay strong!! You can do this. If he is willing to do all that he says he is doing, and willing to continue to put all the effort he is putting in, it will be worth it!!! He sounds like he has gotten it on a different level. That is at least some progress, right? The fears you are feelng right now are normal. You are strong enough to face them. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Remember, you draw the line, take care of yourself. If he crosses the line, you will handle it, otherwise you are making progress.

No, I'm not taking anything. I don't know if I need them, but I was thinking about asking for a prescription for anti-anxiety meds. I feel paralyzed by this giant ball of stress sitting in my chest. I have a pre-existing problem with anxiety anyway...