Thanks brokenvase, I'll check that book out. I must have sensed something, HAM called my IM yesterday to ask about phone calls.

Jennifer,
In addition to readin self help books i would encourage you to SURRENDER to a program. A program like AlAnon.
I have the same frustrations that you do.
As I type this I have 3 kids in bed whose mom has left them.
I think, Why can't she just.....

But then I REMEMBER the first step of AlAnons 12 step Progam: I don't have control! I don't have control over anyone's actions except my own.
Then I remember to FOCUS ON MYSELF. How can I improve myself? Care for my kids?

Jennifer I share this so that you can know there is hope out there. Plan B is great but AlAnon can help you plan B mentally with him. It really helps

Thanks HDW. I do daily meditations from CoDA that help me a lot.

Someone at work pointed out something that should have been obvious to me-- that those years HAM was a stay at home parent and resisted getting a job he was probably chatting with tramp all day. Trying to protect his secret second life all that time, and sacrificing our families finances. No wonder he said after the fact that I was selfish taking a job with a paycut but much better quality of life... it required him to cut into his affair time.

It's sad how 20/20 looking back it all makes sense. Tomorrow I meet with my lawyer to find out what the delay is (I guess HAM's atty wants me to have psych eval if I want Ham to).

Aaah, Jen. I know all of this well. I remember reading about WS's posting on here, and thinking soon it would be Gollum. I remember avoiding threads on recovery... and I often still do. A Plan B'er who never has the chance of recovery... understandably reading recovery can act as a trigger I think this is why there are so few long-term Plan B'ers posting here. MB becomes a trigger in itself.

It takes a while to decipher what happy memories a betrayed is romanticising, and what are real. I still haven't quite figured these memories out. I know I have started to see more of the negative memories, and am unsure if this is my own attempt to answer why H has become Gollum. I recognise that it is very easy to pick random isolated memories, and demonise the WH... I think this is what the wayward does. So I have come to the conclusion... there was no excuse, regardless of our history. And that will be WH's burden to bear. Not mine.

My desire to rescue WH has eased. I rarely think of this any more, although in early Plan B I thought of nothing else. Know that it will ease. Because you will be satisfied that you stood for your marriage; you gave him every chance to earn you and his family back.

Jen, we all want admissions, apologies, just compensation. I would be worried if a betrayed didn't! Exposure is the truth. You did this. Don't wait for a wayward to give you truth or just compensation. You might waste your life.

To move past all of this.. write your conditions for recovery. Give them to your IM. And keep taking steps in life. Don't expect to be healed overnight. But keep taking steps. One day, you will look back, and think just how far you have come. It will suprise you. It did me

Aww, thanks Caracal! Yes, MB Is something of a trigger but you and the other long term plan Bers keep me going. When I first entered plan B I thought I'd do it for a month or two to get passed withdrawal. I didn't count on HAM leaving the area and figured that he would be involved in DS's activities and church. Then I got thrown off when he left.

I did recently write my conditions for recovery and also questions I would want answered (which I keep adding to as I realize more). It helps a bit. I think the legal side gets me down a bit, as well as the financial mess that the abandonned house is. But, all that will pass eventually. I hope one day I'll get past the demonization of HAM. I want to get to indifference. But the last week or so, I've been angry. Part of me also wonders if pushing the psych evals in the divorce is getting even, but I also feel that since HAM has managed to do so many things I never thought he would, I can't put others past him (like suicide/homicide).

JV, just wanted to say Hi, that I'm still rooting for you. You are a model MB'er!!

~Z

Well...my plan B totally fell apart.

It's been quite a week. First, last Sunday, my IM's daughter stole my debit card out of my purse, and used it at a fast food place. So it was a long week in terms of realizing who took it, talking with her and her mom, deciding to file a police report so she realizes how serious it is, dropping the charges so nothing is permanent. She's a good kid who made a mistake, and needs some help, that her mom has been trying to get for her. But the path of dishonesty is a direction I hope she is able to avoid.

Then, my IM and her kids were out of town for a few days. Just happens to be when HAM decides he wants to come see DS. Does he give me fair notice in advance to plan it out? If telling DS during phone calls M,W,F counts, then yes, if talking to my IM and making a plan counts, then no. So, on Saturday, he was "on his way" to the area, my IM was largely unavailable, and I had to text him to figure out what the heck was going on. I had thought I could possibly talk to him on the phone to set something up, but he left me a rude voice mail and the texts let me control things somewhat. I had to go into work for a few hours on saturday for a training...and with the stress and confusion, rear ended someone. Yikes. Now I have a raging sinus infection that I think is related (from previous chiropractic issues, unfortunately, my chiro is back where HAM now lives, in our old home town).

HAM gets more demanding on his texts in the AM and I stood my ground...he was refusing to answer any questions I had that would let me guage his mental state. He had, years ago, had a lot of sympathy for a man who's marriage fell apart and went on a shooting rampage killing his kids, ex-wife, her affair partner, and himself. While ironically, HAM shouldn't be able to see himself in the H's shoes in that equation, that, combined with his erratic behavior, suicidal ideations in December, and my vulnerability with IM out of town...you can imagine how stressed/anxious I was.

So finally, I texted HAM that he could come visit DS at church and we would come up with a mutually agreed plan after that for any visit for the rest of the day. He didn't respond, so I went to church, notified everyone I could think of that HAM was not to leave with DS under any circumstances, and tried to settle in with my peace, knowing DS was in the kids' room right by the backdoor. I had a lot of people supporting me at church. When HAM did show up, they let me know, and someone stayed with him and DS. After that, I stayed with them for a bit, asking HAM questions and requiring proof. He showed me his current prescription and most recent paystub. I guess he has a job in our old town now. He had given an address to an apartment to my IM that morning and I looked it up on google street view...looked like a real dump. DS was looking over my shoulder and said so as well. Anyway...

After the first hour of church, when I stayed with DS and HAM, we went and got the pirate ship that DS wanted from HAM's car. HAM helped him fix a bit of the rigging. At one point, DS was in his dad's lap and asked him if he loved Mama. HAM didn't answer and DS asked if Mama was part of his(HAM's) family. After a pause, HAM said no. DS said but she's part of my family. Then DS started almost crying (he was holding his eyes closed so he wouldn't) and said he wanted Mama and Daddy to love each other. He turned to me and asked me if I loved Daddy, I said I love him, but don't like what he's doing. Anyways...that was the hardest moment for DS.

After I spent about an hour with them, and HAM did answer some of my questions and provided some proof of things, I agreed to let him take DS for 4.5 hours that afternoon. It broke my heart and I was very stressed still, but I felt like HAM did not really want DS cramping his new style, and that he would return him safely. He did do so...apparently DS wanted to come home early, but I was in Target doing back to school shopping and didn't have phone reception, so we met at the agreed time, and I got my little boy back.

Sigh.

Okay...going forward: my IM doesn't quite have what it takes. At this point, I'm ready to just finalize the divorce with the info I have and propose the visitation schedule I'm comfortable with. Honestly, HAM isn't going to have much vacation time to spend with DS, so I doubt he'll have him much anyway. But he's obviously committed to settling back in our old town. Do I want to return there? I had thought about it a lot, and tried over the three years we've been up here to get a job down there. But I think the kids are settled here. I have a great church, my job is good, my kids have a chance at some stability...so no. I'm staying here, at least for the foreseeable future, perhaps until the munchkins are done with school. The schools are better and crime rate is lower up here. Socially, it's a much more conservative area than I'd like, and it has somewhat less culture than I'd like, but we certainly keep more than busy enough.

I'm going to put together a divorce settlement proposal to submit to HAM's attorney and try to get this thing wrapped up. I'm not sure if I'll continue in full on plan B or not...with him out of the area, and contact minimal, I'm not sure I'd need to.

How did I feel seeing HAM yesterday? I am still attracted and somewhat attached to him...but I'm detached as well. It was hard because of the circumstances of fearing for DS. But other than that, I might be able to handle the irregular, trading the kid kind of contact. I can handle it just fine with my other wayward Ex-husband, when I need to see or talk to him for some reason. I will keep contact at a minimum, but my "dark plan B" may be over, as I move into plan D.

(((((JenniferVoyager)))))

I'm sorry it's come to this. Ugh re: your IM. That's so stressful. Ugh re: HAMs visit. It's very telling that you want a divorce after spending time with him. A Dark Plan B might have protected your heart from watching him mess up his life and be a jerk to you - I'm sorry your IM wasn't there for you.

JMO: Since you expressed concern about your DD's safety with HAM, I am also concerned. Your instincts are likely correct - if he is on meds and has mental issues, that could be a recipe for tragedy and a good reason to insist upon no visitation or only supervised visitation (though that didn't prevent Josh Powell from murdering his two boys). Doesn't sound like your DS was having much fun with HAM anyway - why force him to grow up being exposed to HAM's erratic and sometimes frightening behavior?

You are providing a stable, loving home (staying where you feel some support, and financial and emotional stability - great!) I can tell you from personal experience that my H says in hindsight he should have fought for no visitation for his DD with his ex. Drugs, abuse, emotional instability, etc has given his DD a screwed up world view, and though the rules and environment in our home are healthy and supportive (she's here full-time, just visits her mom), she goes over there and sees an extremely unhealthy lifestyle...thinks it's "normal." Not surprisingly she's dabbled in the same lifestyle and engages in risky behavior over there. Better to have waited til she was 18 and better able to make mature decisions.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I'm sure others will come along and have better 'divorce' advice or "keep Plan B'ing" advice than me.

Thanks Zhamilia. I was going to insist on supervised but think that he won't bother to visit much, and won't have the time off to take DS back down to where he lives. So, I was thinking of offering the standard schedule but that HAM can only take DS out of the local area if he is employed and has stable housing. Given that he's been a bit of a homeless person lately I don't think it will be to huge a problem.

I encourage you to ask the divorce court to appoint a Guardian ad Litem for the children.
If he has mental health issues you may be able to get sole custody.
In my case the court awarded me sole custody and left the door open for my ex wife to have partial custody after she has a letter from a medical doctor stating she is fit

Thanks HDW. Ironically, I work for the GAL program that serves kids in the dependency system. I can't prove MH issues beyond ADD, but I have suspician of more. Also he was exposed to alcohol In utero and premature and there are a lot of conditions that go along with that which I'm very aware of. Maybe it's a matter I need to consult another attorney about because mine hasn't taken it too seriously and I don't know family law especially how the local judges are...the divorce is in the county next to where I practice.

I think I've resigned myself that I will have to be the one to keep DS safe by monitoring HAM and not letting him visit if he isn't able to show stability. But maybe I'm quitting too soon on that front.

In my case I requested a Home Study Evaluation and the court investigator recommended I receive custody.
The final agreement and order states that my ex has supervised visitation until she meets some court requirements.

The supervised visitation is at a county visitation center.
Many counties have these visitation centers and they are monitored and controlled by the county.

In my case, I haven't seen or spoken to ww since divorce last month. And I don't plan on speaking or seeing her. I don't understand why you would need to monitor him if he had supervised visitation. If anything that would impair his one on one relationship with his kids. A neutral 3 rd party visiting center would be better for all.

Can I ask if your WW had a diagnosis? That's basically what we had in my first divorce and I got impasse decision making power, but they don't have something similar around here. It's just a battle of expert witnesses and psych evals and would probably cost $10k.

It only costs money if your spouse fights it.
I honestly don't know if my ex wife had a diagnosis.
She made several serious allegations about me.
But I did not have access to the medical records the GAL did

sorry to hear about your very long day, jenn. but i'm wondering why you responded to HAM at all? wouldn't it have been far less stressful to have stayed dark? so the IM thing fell through - what else can he expect at the last minute? no plans = no plans.

i hope your illness clears up soon. i've just had to call in sick for tomorrow. when i got this last term, it took me most of 8 weeks to throw it off. bleech. thank goodness for nyquil!

I tend to agree with Letty. I don't really understand why you are trying to keep WH happy.

My brother (a BXH who never discovered MB) does this with his WXW too. He misses out on vistation with his son according to whims of his WXW, even though it upsets him.

And it sets a precedent. Now your WH will think you will arrange things at his fancy.

I'm also sorry for the stress you experienced at the selfishness of your WH though. Waywards just want us all to dance to the wayward tune huh?

Thanks for the responses. The reasons I did respond were 1) HAM told DS he would be coming and 2) my attorney was telling me I was going to be seen as unreasonable. And my IM has not been the best ... I get the feeling she's sympathetic/apologetic toward HAM. She was also urging me to let him visit. I was also afraid of him just showing up at my house and there being a confrontation.

Maybe if I had a more serious IM it would be easier to stay in plan B. As for the divorce, HAM's rich mom is bankrolling it...there's probably no limit to what she'd pay to try and prove her point (she is encouraging HAM' s belief that I'm the crazy one.). I on the other hand would have to borrow money and have no credit left and the retainer's gone and now my attorney is back peddling on being aggressive.

At this point I 'm rather at a loss. Oh, and I still have the whole foreclosure mess and stack of bills.

So it makes sense now: HAM never had to grow up or take responsibility. His Mom does everything for him. How sad.

I'm impressed with your strength, stick to your guns.

Does infidelity carry any legal weight there? In our state, the betrayed gets an extra % of the assets in a divorce.

I'm sorry...sometimes there are no easy answers, and the black/white theories don't materialize in real life. I'm proud of ya & getting inspiration from you!

Any other IMs you could get to help?

It's been a long time since I updated. The last couple of weeks have been busy and stressful. With juggling all the kid activities and my finances being absolutely in the toilet, with my lawyer seeming, at this point, a dud, I've been struggling a lot with my situation. My IM never came back into service after the weekend HAM was here. I found a bank statement of his at the old house and he was going to expensive restaurants in Tramp's town while I struggle to provide for the kids. I need to figure a way to take back the lead on this situation but my finances are so stretched I don't have good options (so I can't, for instance, hire a new lawyer). I still spend way too much time thinking about HAM and wondering how he could do this (and I know the answer...poor boundaries...but it still doesn't explain to me how he could leave his son).

And Zhamila, thanks for having checked on me, I wish there was more strength that I could show right now.