We've all heard WWs say they do it only to keep OMs interest and keep the easy needs meetings and the addiction. Its one of the few wayward sayings I do believe. In what universe is an OM going to be a good lover? Good lovers are considerate and unselfish. They arent trying to manipulate and vulturise women into bed so they can be used. A good experience for a woman? I highly doubt it. Perhaps under the influence of the 'drug' of the A, but even then I doubt it.

For want of a better word they become crack whores. Doing whatever is demanded by the dealer in order to get their drug. And because it is demanded it CAN'T be pleasurable. So many WWs also submit to sex acts that women typically find unpleasant, or they found unpleasant pre-A. Why? Because they chose to become joyless puppets who didnt listen to themselves any more.
Or their bodies.

True I speak without WW experience, but it CANT be pleasurable. The typical OM is a loser and a user. Who cant pleasure his own woman, or keep one.

Indie,

I appreciate you've never put the metaphorical gun to her head, but there is a perceived pressure on her here isn't there?

W has told me, frequently, that she is glad I never try to get her to do anything she does not want to do and that I respect her boundries, which I always have.

God Bless
Gamma

I'm glad I misunderstood. It really read as if you would D her for that..

If she was orgasmic with you once, and recovery is fully in place, logically there is no reason she won't be again. Recovery is just tough thats all.

I got to see this firsthand with OW#2...in their text/IM exchanges. She clearly stated she didn't like doing x, y, and z but she would if exWH wanted that. I thought it was sad and telling.

**edit**

I know. I always find it SO disturbing.

Please make your points without being so graphic. The point can be conveyed without vulgarity. Thank you.

Various studies also suggest that only about 1/3 of all women even experience orgasms on a regular basis...further consideration if a BH is using orgasms count as a recovery measurement.

This is a bit of an off shoot, but I think a woman who is giving up sex for benefits is akin to men who watch porn.

It isnt good, satisfying stuff.

Pep has posted (and I hope Im not putting words in her mouth) that men who watch porn arent experiencing joy, they experience only distance and a sense of superiority over the woman, who is typically portrayed as trash.I think OM usually have that attitude towards WWs.

But I also think the women in A situations feel very joyless too. I know a woman, who shall we say sleeps around for attention. It isnt an A because she isnt married but she does break hearts. Though she says the sex is hot (she's very vocal)she dumps the men as though they were kleenex. And she doesnt look like she's having any fun.

I thought this too. A lot of my friends couldnt care less about them and say they have fulfilling SF in their marriage. It most certainly should not be a recovery yard stick.

MrWondering,

In other words, no man can be emasculated without his permission.

In the case where a W is unwilling, offers no reasonable explanation and the Hs genuine efforts produce no response, that is what it feels like.

Some men will restore their masculinity by cheating, but with that route unacceptable divorce or toleration are the major options.

What gamma's wife did or didn't do with OM is (or should be) completely irrelevant when he is NOW in bed with his presumably loving and evidently willing wife.

Right but my W is resolute in not telling me any details, except generalities like that after OM2 she never felt the same about me.

God Bless
Gamma

For the record, "her" in that sentence was not a pronoun, but a possessive.

There is a huge difference between feeling emasculated by HER, and feeling emasculated by her inability to orgasm after her A.

OK that is why I wanted to read your thread, because it is usually MB conditions which are hindering the recovery, not stuff like orgasms.

What you are talking about is recovery being stalled due to a lack of RH, not orgasms.

No RH means no recovery.

Gamma apparently needed a venue to vent his own issues, instead of posting them on a "newbie's" thread. I offered him this thread as a place for him to "get it out".

A friendly gesture.

Indie,

No RH means no recovery.

Yes, so it is a question I would like to get answered, but also the most important one to me, followed by.

2) types of activities
3) number of times
4) size
5) where
6) when
7) why
8) emotional involvement
9) financial, who paid for lunch etc.

My W reveals things, actually slips up, on rare occasions as she has a very difficult time with fault. She is especially worried about my confronting OM2.

God Bless
Gamma

But you accept this from your WW so what is the point? Especially about orgasm anxiety?

If she refuses RH she's still wayward and not a woman at all but an alien.

No need to feel emasculated when an alien behaves like an alien. Unwilling, cold, secretive, distant etc.

It is silly to give a wayward the power to emasculate you. They'll use it every time.

I must underline that it is her unwillingness to be HONEST not her inability to respond sexually that marks her out as alien.

She either gets on board with ALL recovery conditions or Plan B comes in at the appropriate time.

Where's your thread? I did look.

I think you have the right to know anything you want to know. You should be able to make your decision based on as many of the facts as you wish to know. These issues are relevant to you.

With my H's long affair, I never asked about the types of activities or size (!), but I asked and found out about the other things on this list. One thing that was different for me is that the WS is my husband - a man - and so I don't need to ask whether the sex with OW was orgasmic. Of course it was, for the man.

Gamma, let's suppose that you ever get the answers that you seek, and they are devastating. Let's suppose your wife had a fantastic sexual experience (and let's not go into details of what that means, physically).

What then?

Indie,

If she refuses RH she's still wayward and not a woman at all but an alien.

Well OM2 was 20+ years ago, so my W feels it is implicitly forgiven or should just be forgotten.

So I can't say that she is an active wayward, but more like a W that never came clean.

God Bless