Yep - skewed perceptions over a #. And no, no one ever looks at those charts usually.

The media - whether movies or magazines - really does play a number on our minds about what is beautiful and what isn't - and what these people look like. Heck, I'd look unworldly gorgeous all the time too if I had someone following me around to correct the lighting, airbrush and photoshop my pics, and let me do retakes of those moments that come out looking funny!

Just the other morning on tv they were showing old ads for women. Were they trying to get these women to lose weight? NO...they were for women to gain weight! "Too Skinny??? Try..." Although, back then people ate smaller portions and cooked at home a lot more. They probably didn't do all the snacking we do nowadays either.

There are some strides made to show women accomplishing things in ads now, rather than just for eye candy - but I don't know that we'll ever see the day eye candy goes away.

As for how it relates to MB concepts, while you can't go around with your eyes closed all the time, it's important to to watch comparisons of your spouse to these unrealistic portrayals.

In fact, it goes both ways, but in a different sense. Some time ago I noticed something one Saturday. I watched too many chick flicks because I was sick and H was out with S18 and S16 a good bit of that time. One movie was fine, but by the 3rd romantic drama or comedy...I was a lot less satisfied with my marriage and my H! In my mind I had let negativity sink in:

"Why can't Mr. Sunny be more like _____ and do ______. He doesn't love me like I deserved to be loved!"

And of course, it went downhill from there. It was, "NO...of course he doesn't. Instead of doing _______ he went and had an A!"

The worst part is, I KNOW better than to compare my own life or marriage with a dang movie! I'm betting most men know better than to compare their wives to a movie star or supermodel. BUT... when you let this stuff into your head, it works its black magic whether you like it or not.

Point being: there's a balance for both sexes in our expectations and how the romantic and attractiveness needs are met in our marriages.

yes yes yes! the contrast effect doesn't require use of porn or erotic fiction. even things we consider "everyday" stuff can develop that contrast, and it is so subliminal sometimes, even when you think you're being level headed about it, they next thing you know, you're saying exactly that: "He doesn't love me like I deserved to be loved!" i'm not a big romantic comedy person, but i have experienced what you're talking about sunny. i cried at the end of jerry maguire for that very reason! and that was how i felt: "he doesn't love me ENOUGH." what a ninny!

the "grand gestures" we see in films, books, and the internet are a rarity IRL. i only know one couple whose marriage was full of them, and maybe i'll tell their story here one day. it is a cautionary tale. to sum up: flash and bang /=/ substance. (and can you guess? it was an affairage.)

i think we talked before about the little things. for the first year or so after Hs a, i waited and waited for that grand gesture. and each time it didn't appear, i got madder and more frustrated. but somehow i learned to recognize that all the little things he was doing were so much more valuable than 1 big one. and now i'm actually grateful for those little things. the little building blocks create a M. one big brick won't do it!

I appreciate this post a LOT right now. However, what if one of your BIG building blocks IS or at least SHOULD be the little things. Right now, my wife holding my hand during a prayer IS a big thing. Her actually wanting to give me a hug IS a big thing for me. Those SHOULD be the little building blocks, but I've been so deprived from them, that they're the BIG events right now. I would LOVE a grand gesture of I'm so sorry, thank you for not giving up on me, thank you for being a great father to our children, I'll make it up to you, but I know it isn't coming, thank you for not letting me make the biggest mistake of my life. I understand that'll most likely NEVER happen based on others experiences, which goes to show how psychological screwed up affairs make good and decent people.

Dr Harley is clear in the book SUrviving an Affair that betrayed spouses usually don't receive that grand gesture.
I received a half [censored] apology but it turned out to be a false recovery that only lasted 2 weeks anyway.
Personally after reading SAA I felt that Sue was an ungrateful selfish woman.

I wonder If Jon and Sue read these forums?
If so i don't mean to offend

So riddle me this. In regarding to the EN of PA, what if your spouse DOES subscribe to somewhat unrealistic expectations of weight, etc. and feels that for you to meet that need you must compete with the supermodels, actresses, etc.

I kindof feel that is the case for me. I am 5'10 and wear a size 6-8 and H would like to see me be 'petite' in structure, ie very slender and more in a size probably 4? IDK what exactly he wants but I think he does want me to lose a few. When, I think I am pretty dang good looking just the way I am.

I'm not super skinny, or perfectly tones in every way. But I'm not overweight. I am a 40 yr old mother of 3 and I am a woman, not a skinny girl or someone who starves themself to fit into an unrealistic size 4.

I don't even know my weight because I don't own a scale. Try it, its liberating.

But since I have been working hard to meet his EN's, I really feel torn between wanting to feel good about myself and my own body (which, I do), and yet wanting to please him, but not wanting to please him at the expense of living a life that is obsessed with being skinny and not eating for goodness sake! KWIM. What's the answer here.

Can't really tell him that he is being unrealistic and to get over it, because that would be like telling him his need for PA doesn't matter. Wouldn't it?

unwritten, dr harley says that men aren't to place unrealistic societal expectations of beauty onto their spouses (that's an SD!). that women do bear children and age, just like *they* do! my H certainly isn't the viral 35yo he once was, just like i am not the 28yo he married. PA is about looking your best, being healthy (not a size whatever), and not trying to fit into false expectations. you should find that part of HNHN and highlight it for him! asking a 5'10" woman to be a size 4 is bullying, IMveryHO.

ps: i don't own a scale either. i don't really care what i weigh, as long as my clothes fit.

so, should you tell him to get real and get over it? well, yes, but certainly not in that manner! what you *can* do is show him that part of the book, and perhaps venture, gently, that expecting a 40yo mother of 3 who is damn fine to look like a 17yo supermodel is hurtful. then give him a picture of david beckham and tell him to conform! lol.

HH, i'm glad this open discussion has been helpful!

HDW, i'm sorry. i can't imagine the shoe being on the other foot and never, ever getting a heartfelt "i'm so sorry" for the pain and agony you've gone through. i guess recovery brings about a turn of events (if not of words) for the couple that allows the BH to be willing to continue the M.

Just to add to Letty's comments, Unwritten, I think Dr. H once said in a radio program (or maybe it was an article) that he even closes/covers his eyes when nude scenes come on in movies to avoid unhealthy comparisons. Maybe you guys have read or seen that too.

Point being: perhaps Mr. Unwritten needs to stay away from movies and magazine women contrasts and maybe his expectations won't be so unrealistic.

In my case, I learned that I needed to stay away from ODing on chick stuff. It's really not my thing usually anyway, but sometimes I like it. I especially steer clear if I'm hormonal!

Know thyself...

lol

well, you'd just better stay far away from that 50 shades book then. between the kinky s-e-x and the spectacular romantic gestures, you'll be packing your bags!

I agree with this 'know thyself' thing. Mr Unwritten watches Deadliest Catch and reads hunting and fishing mags, so not really even sure where the comparison comes from, lol. I think its rather impossible to not be affected by the constant media campaigns though.

Regarding 50 Shades of Gray, since that has been a topic on these boards a few times. H downloaded it for me for Mother's Day, although I haven't read it yet, he just knew many of my friends were. The affect I have seen it have with my friends is they have all totally stepped up their SF activity in terms of stepping outside the box AND quantity, and therefore their H's LOVE the book. Don't tell my H that tho or he will probably delete it off my phone, he already has a hard time keeping up.

LOL, Letty!!!

I've heard it's pretty wild! I didn't know it was filled with romantic gestures though. No wonder women seem to be loving it - best of both worlds!

You're right - it is pretty impossible to steer clear of media perceptions. We're inundated with it, all the time.

As for 50 Shades...I've heard that it's the best thing to come along for husbands since sliced bread! lol

H and I talked about it briefly the other day. He didn't say he wanted me to read it. Then again, he thought it was about a woman having SF with 50 different hunky men. LOL

rofl! no, summed up: girl meets boy, boy is gazzillionarie who's into kinky stuff, they fall in love, get married, the end. it's like a harlequin, but with some kink thrown in. and she took 3 books to do it. i loved one of the reviews of book 2 on BN: "I was interested in seeing where she could possibly go with a second book. Turned out to be nowhere!"

the writing is incredibly poor (good grief, the dialogue!), there's no plot, and it's wholeheartedly ridiculous, but i imagine it has spiced up a sex life or two. frankly, i think the wrong gender is reading it

did y'all see the lady who advertised her house for sale thanks to her cheating husband? it's here if you're interested. many nice comments on her blog.

They do get married?? yay! I'm in the middle of book one.

PS I checked out the blog too. Sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders. We do need to remember that things could be worse..

That being said, I don't think the pain of infidelity should ever be discounted.

I have a friend who lost a baby through still birth, and she said people would often say things like 'well at least you didn't know the child' and the like. Pointing out the 'it could have been worse.' That is more damaging a statement than saying nothing sometimes, when someone is in a painful situation.

Of course it could be worse. But this is bad enough, for now...

FYI that same friend is friends with another woman who also lost a child through still birth. And now, her husband just left her for another woman.

My friend has told me that she claims the adultery was more painful than losing her child. I have always thought in the back of my head that cannot be possible when I have heard Dr Harley say it, being a mother and knowing how devastating it would be to lose a child (or rather, imagining). It is interesting to hear it from someone who has actually been through both.

No, I didn't mean it would ok for others to say that to us (I would seethe at that!) but for us to be grateful for what we do have.

As a mother, I would rather this over losing any of my children. Hands down

Hands down. I agree.

whoops, sorry, RQ, didn't mean to include a spoiler! the wedding, however, is not central to the books, lol. skip a page and you'll miss it. not that i think anyone is skipping pages. i read the dirty bits aloud to my H, hahahaha.

UW, i can't believe someone would say something so cruel to someone who has lost a baby (well, i believe they did, but it's breathtakingly cruel). my sister lost a baby about 12 years ago, on valentine's day, and still sobs over it today (on the "big day" reminder). she's not in a position to have any more and it just kills her. however, i don't think it would help to tell her that if my BIL had an affair she'd know what devastation really feels like. i hope that NEVER, EVER happens to her, even though she can be a real witch

i mean, i know it's hard to say things to people who are grieving, but geez louise! that's inserting BOTH feeet! having lived through adultery, i can't think of any worse pain, even if i had ended up single. that may have even been easier, because of the finality. recovery is a lengthy, painful road. a living child, though...nope. can't even think about how that would feel. i know what you meant, though, RQ. things are a lot worse for a lot of people around the world. but in our lives, this IS the worst thing. and hey, we're making it! yay for us!

i thought the lady selling the house had some moxie. good for her.

so, the new eating habit is going ok. i've cut sugar to the bone, and spend a lot more time at the market reading labels. scary things, those labels, when you realise how much crap is in stuff. i mean, i'm no idiot. i was athletic as a girl. i rode, ran, biked, did biathlons. i was even a vegetarian for many years until i met my carnivore H (it just got too hard dealing with the food). but ever since the a, i have just slid further and further down that slippery slope of food as a crutch. so i have no one to blame but myself.

i know the cravings will start to go in another week or so. i've really cut back on the smoking (from nearly 25/day to 4-6), but i'm only human and can't do it all in one go. (i picked up the smoking again in march, surprise, surprise). next week my goal is to get into the gym one day for the week. with parent-teacher conferences from 4-10 after a full day's teaching, and a venue meeting re the school ball after school, that's gonna be the very best i can do next week. i'll try 2 days the week after.

i'm worried that this new twist on my health has my H thinking, "aw sh1t, again? enough is enough." i know, i know, after telling someone else not to put words in their mouths/heads! he's been so good to me with the big health issues. when i had my hysterectomy at 32, he got up early, got me set up for the day, and when he came home he showered me and dried my hair and waited on me hand and foot. for weeks. when i had my knee replacement, he did the same, but added daily physio appointments w/me. i don't want it to be all about me! anyhow, to make *myself* feel better, i am making him a fabulous dinner with pork chops (something i hate. i'm having whole wheat pasta).

i hope y'all have a good weekend. we're supposed to have some nice (if cold) weather, so i'm going to sit outside while H is working tomorrow and finish the new john sandford.

rant!

i hate aging! no one talks about it and there is no warning of what happens! in the last 5 years i've freaked out about things that are, apparently, normal. who knew?

i first noticed i was aging in my late 30s. i went to buy some nail polish, and a young lady came to help me. i asked her about a shade, and she held up her hand so i could see it on her nails and compare my skin tone. i put my hand next to hers and was flabbergasted. hers was nice and plump and smooth. mine was bony, freckled, and wrinkly! OMG!

now that i'm hitting 46 (geez, 50 is not that far away), i feel betrayed by my body. years of steriods for lupus has given my face a round shape, even at my thinnest. yuck. the area between my eyebrows is sliding down my face. i totally understand why celebrities have face lifts! my dimple, which everyone thought was terrific my whole life, has wrinkles. who knew dimples gave you wrinkles??

i get these round, almost perfect circles, red splothes on my body. they get dry, peel, scab over, and fade away. this takes weeks. yuck.

little hard bumps of skin appear all over. they get dry and peel. sometimes you can peel them right off, and they leave a crater. they always come back, and exfolioating does nothing.

moles also shift around. they puff up. they itch. they get a red ring. they get dry. they go back down. but apparently this is normal.

sf is more difficult. because of my early hysteroctomy, i have been on HRT for years. however, i find that sf, without a LOT of preparation, is, ahem, hard. once i get going it's ok though.

lately, i have found that even with a lot of preparation, i have a hard time reaching orgasm. i have read that this may be to diabetes. it's very frustrating to have a high level of excitement, but instead of finally hitting that last platau (sp?) where you know it's coming, it just stays in that gear. this is making sf for me a real problem, mentally. i plan on speaking with the lifestyle management nurse about it this week.

due to my lupus, i feel about 20 years older than my age. some days, up to 40 years older. i can't imagine what my 60s are going to be like, if i make it that far (please, let me make it that far!).

/rant

ladies, discussion?