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So, I did some nostalgiac digging beack into the thread, and stumbled back upon another good resource... and found some good stuff;

http://journeytomanhood.blogspot.com/2011/09/critical-piece-of-manhood-puzzle.html

Quote
Mark Moore was my hero. He was a regular old-school fireman, back before the spectacular heroism of 9-11. So it wasn't the fact of his profession that elevated him in my eyes. No, it was simply that he was the only man in my nine-year-old world who understood me. He was my next door neighbor. He lived close enough to hear my father's drunken rages and my mother's crying. He saw the car parked on grass in the front yard where my dad had left it the night before. He observed the sad lack of maintenance on our house, and he witnessed the many times I went running from the house in tears. Mark knew the horror of my world and still, for his own reasons, he picked me and gave me the only positive adult male attention I knew in those days.


Mark taught me to fish. I remember the awe I felt the first time he showed me his tackle box. It was the most mysterious collection of tools for getting the meat I had ever seen. The lures were colorful, each with a name and a special use. And dam that box was fragrant. I didn't learn until much later the otherworldly smell was a collection of thirty years' worth of mixed beer and dried fish guts.

Mark found the time to do things with me and sometimes a couple of my boy-pack buddies. We would visit him and the other men at the firehouse and got to slide down the brass pole from the second floor dorm. We'd build things together too. I can still smell the sawdust from the footstool we constructed in his garage workshop one hot summer. Then there was the time he took us all up to the top of the Highland Water Tower on the one day of the year it was open. The tower was the highest point in our town at the time and it offered an expansive vista. One at a time, he lifted each of us up to peer over the safety rail and then he pointed out the important places in our neighborhood. He said, �There�s your house, and there�s the movie theater. Over there is where you go to school, and way out there is the fairgrounds.� In a way, Mark was doing for me what men have done with boys for centuries, seeing their gifts, choosing to be engaged, and lifting them up and showing them the important parts of the masculine landscape. My dad wasn't really present for me, I had Superman on television back in those days, but Mark was my real superhero. I was a horribly lost little boy who became a lost teen, and it was Mark who saved my life.

There was a guy down from the block from me named Paul who used to put me to work around his house and in his garden. Then, there was the father of a girl down the block who did a lot of the same; put me to work. All my life I've known at least this value. Yet, there were other models and conversations that came from these neighborhood men that were missing from my own father, who was concerned only with work, and did so - driving a truck - 60-70 hours a week, on holidays... all. the time.

It is important to remember that "it takes a village to raise a child," or even, it takes a tribe to raise a man.

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The other sad truth about manhood is about lost men. Men and manhood have taken it in the chops from bad wars, feminism, and brutal economic times. Manhood is constantly under assault in today's media. A recent article in my hometown newspaper titled, Men Behaving Sadly, points out this coming season of TV shows feature, �. . . more than a half a dozen male characters questioning their masculinity and their place in a �woman�s world.�� Men's institutions have been invaded, and even men's natural tendencies have come under incitement. Collectively, these and other forces have had a devastating impact on male esteem. The result is lost and confused men, collectively and globally, looking for a vision of manhood that will help men feel good about themselves and reshape the important parts of the masculine landscape.

I'm not alone... I'm... not... alone?

I AM NOT ALONE!

Whew. That felt good.

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Making men out of adolescent males is men's work. It's necessary and life-saving for the boys, it supports families, and it reduces the chaos and violence in our communities. The big secret is until men put this piece in place, men are not whole. Conversely, when men claim that core piece of the manhood puzzle, the male hierarchy is restored, boys see an achievable path to manhood, there is peace in the village, and men inhabit their right place in the order of things.

"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." - Fredrick Douglass

I am once again energized about this.



Quick question; I had this topic moved to Recovery due to thinking (possibly faulty) that the most need would be from those recovering from infidelity, both the BH and the WH.

Does anyone feel it was better set in "other topics?"


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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My opinion is it is fine here HHH,and BTW, I loved that article too.

"We", are not alone my friend.

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I am not a man...but I have to say, as a woman, we NEED strong men!

I grew up with some of the finest men you would ever meet. They are my heros. There's my dad...not a big talker, but had to be near death's door to miss work. He served in 2 wars and never talked about how tough he had it. At this moment I can't think of a single complaint that has come out of his mouth. There was plenty of times he did without so my brother and I could do things we wanted to do. At 82 he is still one of the most active people I know. He is a role model - a stand up guy - and would've had plenty of excuses if he chose to take them, esp. in dealing with my mother. (But that's another story.)

Then there's my brother. He is 5 years older than me and has been the best big brother a sister could have! He helped me through forgiveness - and showed my husband grace and love when H made the decision to restore his family. My brother took care of me when my dad was away, serving our country - even more than my mother. When it comes to integrity - I know of no other that takes it on himself like my big bro to make sure he is always above reproach. And, he's humble. Just like my dad. Best darn husband and father I know of and my sister-in-law would agree.

My uncle: a man's man if you ever saw one, but a sweetheart under it all. He was a fire captain. Always looked out for everyone but himself. He married my aunt, taking in 3 girls to raise as his own and treated them so well no one ever in thought to consider they were "stepchildren". When my cousin's 5 year old son came down with brain cancer, my uncle said, "God...take it from him....give it to me." I never saw a man so genuine in his willingness to take a bullet for someone else. He died last January - way too young - of pancreatic cancer.

My step-grandfather - I guess you would call him - married my grandmother after my grandfather died after a long bout of Alzheimers. I never really knew my grandfather as a man. My stepgrandfather though... he knew what being a man meant. He treated my grandmother like she was a queen - marrying in their 60's! At 98 he still lived alone, kept a garden, mowed his own lawn, and fixed anything and everything for anyone and everyone. He died last December at 99.

These are the men of Mount Rushmore to me! I think in ways, I had no clue that a lot of men were not like the men I have been surrounded by all my life. I thought things like affairs only happened to really bad people because the good guys wouldn't go there. My poor husband...he had a lot to live up to I guess you would say. When I think about his issues - his lack of boundaries - his willingness to cut and run...I blame his lack of leadership in his life. His "dad" is a world class JERK! And that's being nice. OK, so...this is his step-dad/adopted dad...but it was the man who was supposed to raise him. (After his mom cheated on and dumped the good guy, of course...) I can't even begin to tell you the selfishness and entitlement of this "dad".... Too long. He doesn't even speak to H now because H doesn't believe with his political views! If HE had been a real man, my H would have had a much better life and it makes me sad he had to deal with the garbage he did.

I'm so sick and tired - as a woman - of men portrayed as bumbling idiots on tv and in movies. I know us women can be smart and strong - all of that - but we still need REAL men - and our sons need them even more!


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Yes, we do, and we need strong role models more than ever now.

I remember some of the things my Dad would say, as laid down comandments, for living.

"Say what you mean and mean what you say!"

"If you don't have something nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all!"

" The best thing you can do, is keep your ears and eyes open, and your mouth shut!"

Hard sayings for a little kid to hear, but he was never a kid himself.

He came from the blue collar circle of farmers in the northeast, and he worked for just about everything he ever had, and didn't "fit in" with others who were more in tune with modern social more's.

But to this day, I still want to please him, and search for his acceptance. If I could I would work as hard as he did all my life, but I can't imagine how he could have survived, as a boy, acting like a man, and doing a mans work, like he did.

And there are more men of character I can remember from childhood. His brother my Uncle, was the polar opposite of my Dad. Where my Dad was impatient and headstrong, my Uncle was patient and complient, without losing his masculinity. Uncle was social and had lots of friends, and my Dad was suspicious and gaurded. They were rivals but pushed each other to excell whether they knew it or not.

My Grandfather, there Dad, worked the last day of his life, after having three heart attacks, and taking nitro glycerine pills. He was putting in an engine, and went to take a break to take a nap, and that was it for him. He was one of those guys you could call at 1 AM and get a jump start, and he was all smiles and of good humor. I remember him that way, allways with a smile. He delivered calfs, worked on farms, worked for the dairy, and had his own farm also.

They didn't say much, but what they said, was in between the jobs they did. They worked with thier hands, and knew a craft and trade. They were the backbone of America.

Those sayings mean much more to me now, than they ever did when I was a young boy, and I guess that comes from the wisdom in them, that I knew was in them, but had to go by faith when I was young.

But those lessons and more, are jewels to me, and not the curses that I once thought they were, because they made me different than others. The truth is, we are different than others, and must take responsibility for ourselves, and if we are strong enough, lead others to the same.

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Me agian.

On SAA LuckyLad. Short story is WW had/has/is having sex with a minor.

Not even close to those that I know here, and exactly why I ask that you read.


Please read? Thanks men. Dude needs help with a new set.


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Yet another AoM article, this one of the "Lessons in Manliness" vein.

In particular, from the TV Series Friday Night Lights. It's on Netflix, so I'll probably go back and watch it (After I finish Battlestar Galactica).

Just a few of the key points, and I leave the rest to be read on the site;


Quote
A Man Seeks Redemption

�Every man at some point in his life is going to lose a battle. He is going to fight and he is going to lose. But what makes him a man is that in the midst of that battle he does not lose himself. This game is not over, this battle is not over.� � Coach Eric Taylor

The theme of redemption was woven throughout each season. Several of the characters fell on hard times because of their own choices and because of just plain bad luck. My favorite example of a man redeeming himself is slick-talking car salesman and booster president, Buddy Garrity. When the show first started, I couldn�t stand Buddy Garrity. He was just a sleaze ball. He was a drunk, he cheated on his wife, and spent his daughter�s college education fund in a bad business deal. Buddy also had a tendency to sow the seeds of dissension on the team and cause Coach Taylor unneeded headaches. You could tell he did it purely for the power trip. People like that really bother me.

I�ll admit I was happy to see Buddy get his comeuppance when he lost his business, his family, and his cherished role as president of the Dillon Panthers booster club. It�s always nice to see cosmic justice in action.

But then something happened. Buddy Garrity quickly went from being my least favorite character on FNL to one my favorites. Why the change? Because Buddy sought for redemption.

Buddy used his personal crucible as an opportunity to become a better man. Ousted from his beloved Panthers, Buddy swallows his pride and becomes a big booster for a rival of his high school alma mater, the East Dillon Lions. He opens up another business in the poorer East Dillon side of town and quickly becomes a part of the community. He takes in a former juvenile delinquent named Santiago and becomes sort of a father figure to him. And in the last season we get to see Buddy repair his relationship with his estranged son, Buddy, Jr. Finally, at Tim Riggins� parole hearing, he stands up for a young man he had respected as a football player but detested as his daughter�s boyfriend and offers him a job at his restaurant, and his own shot at getting back on his feet.

There are such things as second acts in life. Buddy Garrity is a perfect example of that. If you�ve screwed up in life, humble yourself, and fight like the dickens to make things right.

Having not watched the show yet myself, I can't say much more than what is presented here. However, you may notice in the list of redemption, Buddy did not seek redemption in his marriage. I don't know if it is addressed in the show.

It should have been...

Quote
A Man�s Closest Ally Is His Wife

While on the surface Friday Night Lights was a show about football, the heart of the show was truly the relationship between Eric and Tami Taylor. It�s by far the most realistic depiction of a good marriage I�ve ever seen on TV. Most TV shows depict marriages in which the husband is suffocated and henpecked by the wife, or ones in which each of the partners is forever on the verge of an affair or the couple is sliding towards divorce. Instead, the Taylors looked like most married couples I know�solid, happy, and committed. They were confronted not with the over-the-top drama typically depicted on the small screen, but with the everyday struggles that strain most marriages, like balancing work and family, handling an unruly teenager, or just figuring out who�s cooking dinner.

Perhaps the biggest conflict between Eric and Tami was balancing their respective career aspirations. Eric wanted to coach football. That was his calling in life. And for most of their marriage, Tami supported her husband�s dream by moving from job to job. Without her support, Coach Taylor could not have been as successful as he was. But when Tami�s career in education starts to take off, her personal goals quickly become incompatible with her husband�s. Cue the marital tension, and the eventual self-sacrificing compromise.

Despite their relationship conflicts, Tami and Eric were committed to their marriage. They were always able to resolve their problems with love and respect.

Eric understood that a man�s closest ally and adviser is his wife. When he had a problem with the team, he�d often ask Tami for her input while they were laying in bed right before they fell asleep. (Kate and I have those same kinds of bedtime conversations. I�m sure most married couples do too.) He understood the power of a marriage mastermind. He saw his wife not as his inferior or superior, but as an equal companion that was there to help him become the best man he could be.

And that final line is the culmination of RH and PoJA within a marriage (though not likely perfectly modeled in the show, I'll bet).

http://artofmanliness.com/2011/11/07/lessons-in-manliness-from-friday-night-lights/



Well grandaddy was a hillbilly scholar,
blue collar of a man...
He came from the school of
"you don't need nothin' if you can't make it with your own two hands"
He was backwoods, backwards, used words like:
no sir, yes ma'am, by god, I'll be darned, hell yeah I'm American..
and all the years he walked this earth
I swear all he did was work.
He said the devil dreams on an idle horse
so you listen to me squirt..

Don't get too high on a bottle,
and get right with a man.
Fight your fights, find your grace
and all the things you two can't change, and help somebody if you can

Now Granny said sonny
stick to your gun if you believe in something
no matter what
cause it's better to be hated for who you are
Than loved for someone you're not.

She was 5 feet of concrete
New York born and raised on a slick city street.
She'll stare you down, stand her ground,
still kickin' and screamin' at 93
I remember how frail she looked
in that hospital bed
taking her last few breaths of life
and smiling as she said

Don't get too high on a bottle,
just a little syrup now and then,
fight your fights,
find your grace,
and all the things you two can't change
and help somebody if you can,
and get right with a man

I never let a cowboy make the coffee
yeah thats what Granny always said to my Grandad
and he'd say never tell a joke
that ain't that funny more than once
and if you wanna hear God laugh,
tell Him your plans

Don't get too high on a bottle,
get right with a man, son.
fight your fights,
find your grace,
and all the things you two can't change
and help somebody if you can
and get right with a man

and get right with a man


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Hey look my keys still work...



FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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Keys?

You are outmoded!

Simply place your [hand] on the scanner!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Isnt Van Zant from Skynard? I like "Simple man" by them.

They picked up that name BTW because it was the name of thier gym coach, and they called themselves that just to piss him off.

I remember listening to "Freebird" at 16, from a rockradio station, when they were new and went to school talking about it.

I was a sophmore in HS and all everyone knew was "Sweet Home Alabama", because it was on the top forty.

Yeah well, I was a real big music fan then, and 6 years later, when Freebird was popular with all the partier young people, I was a seriuos young father.

Brings back memorys to this old geezer, yep, gotta watch Matlock!

Nah its not that bad , yet..

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I'm excited about this one, it's from the same director who did Hoop Dreams, and part of his mission is getting focus on turning the decline of men around, by focusing on our young men and their transition into manhood;



Thank you to those of you who mentor our young men.

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 12/06/11 02:38 PM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Thank you to those of you who mentor our young men.

I liked it too HHH.

I remember my Dad not being able to show emotion, and how he seemed to have grown up to fast, and allways had something to prove. Realize this though, he was a hard working man allways and wanted the best for all of us, and I respected that immensely.

The Niel Young song at the end of the video from the Harvest Album reminded me of when I was 15 and listening to it and comtemplating my relationship with Him. Like the popular story circulated arong the internet of, "My mean Mom", I could probably equate that to my Dad. He honestly worked all his life, was sensitive and artistic, creative, and shy and withdrawn, but although I appreciated him and the discipline, in a lot of ways we did not connect in this lifetime, although he still had the greastest effect on my character than anyone in the world.

Thanks for this HHH

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Towards the end there is a father-son exchange, I will paraphrase the son;

"Dad, can you loosen up your expectations a bit on me? Some days I don't even want to get out of bed, because I'm sure the day is going to be bad."

Admiration is a big thing to a lot of men. And when we don't receive it from those we love and admire... it's a pretty big blow to us emotionally.

It was a big thing for this young man to state that he feels he is being presented with a seemingly insurmountable task which only leaves him feeling like he repeatedly fails.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Yeah been there, and refused to do it to my kids.

"do not provoke your children unto wrath", or something like that the scripture says, has worked out wonderfully with my children

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From AoM;

Quote
From Courage, 1894
By Charles Wagner


Steadfastness is the indispensable quality of every man who one day does not wish to be obliged to say: �I have wasted my life.�

A man should not incessantly change with every impression of the moment, but should remain steadfast when he has once determined upon what is right. Of what use are the flowers if they do not produce fruits, and of good ideas if they are not transmuted into deeds? We must encourage stability, habituate ourselves to remain constant, and when we are sure that we are right, must fortify ourselves against invasion. Do not let criticisms or attacks disturb you.

Nothing is so difficult as to remain faithful. At each step of the way outside influences are brought to bear upon us to make us deviate or retrograde. And if there were only difficulties from without, it would not matter so much; but there are those from within. Our dispositions vacillate. We promise one thing with the best intentions in the world; but when the time comes to keep it, everything is changed�the circumstances, men, ourselves; and what duty demands of us seems so different from what we had foreseen, that we hesitate. Those who will fulfill on a rainy day a promise which they have made on a sunny one, are few and far between.

And so we go on casting our hearts to the four winds, giving it and taking it back again, breaking with our past, separating ourselves from ourselves, so to speak. And when we look behind, we no longer recognize ourselves. We see ourselves in the days that are past as a stranger, or rather as several strangers.

There is nothing like a steadfast man, one in whom you can have confidence, one who is found at his post, who arrives punctually, and who can be trusted when you rely on him. He is worth his weight in gold. You can take your bearings from him, because he is sure to be where he ought to be, and nowhere else. The majority of individuals, on the contrary, are sure to be anywhere but where they ought to be. You have only to take them into your calculations to be deceived. Some of them are changeable from weakness of character; they cannot resist attacks, insinuations, and, above all, cannot remain faithful to a lost cause. A defeat in their eyes is a demonstration of the fact that their adversary was right and that they were wrong. When they see their side fail, instead of closing up the ranks, they go over to the enemy. These are the men who are always found on the winning side, and not in their hearts would be found the courageous device: Victrix causa diis placuit, sed victa Catoni.

A profound duplicity, a discrepancy between words and deeds, between appearance and reality, a sort of moral dilettantism which makes us according to the hour sincere or hypocritical, brave or cowardly, honest or unscrupulous�this is the disease which consumes us. What moral force can germinate and grow under these conditions? We must again become men who have only one principle, one word, one work, one love; in a word, men with a sense of duty. This is the source of power. And without this there is only the phantom of a man, the unstable sand, and hollow reed which bends beneath every breath. Be faithful; this is the changeless northern star which will guide you through the vicissitudes of life, through doubts and discouragements, and even mistakes.


Our enemies are anger, temptation, complacency, and neglect.

Be Faithful if anything, gentleman.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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[video:youtube]
[/video]


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Accompanying quote where I found this video;

"Adversity introduces a man to...
















































... himself."

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 05/31/12 04:42 AM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I observe, gentlemen, that when I would lead you on a new venture you no longer follow me with your old spirit. I have asked you to meet me that we may come to a decision together: are we, upon my advice, to go forward, or, upon yours, to turn back?

If you have any complaint to make about the results of your efforts hitherto, or about myself as your commander, there is no more to say. But let me remind you: through your courage and endurance you have gained possession of Ionia, the Hellespont, both Phrygias, Cappadocia, Paphlagonia, Lydia, Caria, Lycia, Pamphylia, Phoenicia, and Egypt; the Greek part of Libya is now yours, together with much of Arabia, lowland Syria, Mesopotamia, Babylon, and Susia; Persia and Media with all the territories either formerly controlled by them or not are in your hands; you have made yourselves masters of the lands beyond the Caspian Gates, beyond the Caucasus, beyond the Tanais, of Bactria, Hyrcania, and the Hyrcanian sea; we have driven the Scythians back into the desert; and Indus and Hydaspes, Acesines and Hydraotes flow now through country which is ours. With all that accomplished, why do you hesitate to extend the power of Macedon�yourpower�to the Hyphasis and the tribes on the other side ? Are you afraid that a few natives who may still be left will offer opposition? Come, come! These natives either surrender without a blow or are caught on the run�or leave their country undefended for your taking; and when we take it, we make a present of it to those who have joined us of their own free will and fight on our side.

For a man who is a man, work, in my belief, if it is directed to noble ends, has no object beyond itself; none the less, if any of you wish to know what limit may be set to this particular camapaign, let me tell you that the area of country still ahead of us, from here to the Ganges and the Eastern ocean, is comparatively small. You will undoubtedly find that this ocean is connected with the Hyrcanian Sea, for the great Stream of Ocean encircles the earth. Moreover I shall prove to you, my friends, that the Indian and Persian Gulfs and the Hyrcanian Sea are all three connected and continuous. Our ships will sail round from the Persian Gulf to Libya as far as the Pillars of Hercules, whence all Libya to the eastward will soon be ours, and all Asia too, and to this empire there will be no boundaries but what God Himself has made for the whole world.

But if you turn back now, there will remain unconquered many warlike peoples between the Hyphasis and the Eastern Ocean, and many more to the northward and the Hyrcanian Sea, with the Scythians, too, not far away; so that if we withdraw now there is a danger that the territory which we do not yet securely hold may be stirred to revolt by some nation or other we have not yet forced into submission. Should that happen, all that we have done and suffered will have proved fruitless�or we shall be faced with the task of doing it over again from the beginning. Gentlemen of Macedon, and you, my friends and allies, this must not be. Stand firm; for well you know that hardship and danger are the price of glory, and that sweet is the savour of a life of courage and of deathless renown beyond the grave.

Are you not aware that if Heracles, my ancestor, had gone no further than Tiryns or Argos�or even than the Peloponnese or Thebes�he could never have won the glory which changed him from a man into a god, actual or apparent? Even Dionysus, who is a god indeed, in a sense beyond what is applicable to Heracles, faced not a few laborious tasks; yet we have done more: we have passed beyond Nysa and we have taken the rock of Aornos which Heracles himself could not take. Come, then; add the rest of Asia to what you already possess�a small addition to the great sum of your conquests. What great or noble work could we ourselves have achieved had we thought it enough, living at ease in Macedon, merely to guard our homes, accepting no burden beyond checking the encroachment of the Thracians on our borders, or the Illyrians and Triballians, or perhaps such Greeks as might prove a menace to our comfort ?

I could not have blamed you for being the first to lose heart if I, your commander, had not shared in your exhausting marches and your perilous campaigns; it would have been natural enough if you had done all the work merely for others to reap the reward. But it is not so. You and I, gentlemen, have shared the labour and shared the danger, and the rewards are for us all. The conquered territory belongs to you; from your ranks the governors of it are chosen; already the greater part of its treasure passes into your hands, and when all Asia is overrun, then indeed I will go further than the mere satisfaction of our ambitions: the utmost hopes of riches or power which each one of you cherishes will be far surpassed, and whoever wishes to return home will be allowed to go, either with me or without me. I will make those who stay the envy of those who return.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Great thread!


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Trip, I'll see your Alexander, and raise you my Henry V:

What�s he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark�d to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honor.
God�s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honor,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God�s peace! I would not lose so great an honor
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man�s company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbors,
And say �To-morrow is Saint Crispian's�
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say �These wounds I had on Crispin�s day.�
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he�ll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember�d.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne�er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember�d;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne�er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin�s day.


Here we read of the "band of brothers', probably its first usage. This phrase was also used as the title in the retelling of the story of Co E, 506/101st Airborne. Now for extra credit (without googling), who can name the other group usually so identified?

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Horatio Nelson, I do believe???

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