i don't work and i'm home a lot. H said he got tested for STDs... and i still went in and got tested anyway, a few days ago which seriously sucked.

So what then am I gaining by telling them? right now I get a lot of support with my twins and i don't want to lose that. You're telling me I should tell them and then cut them off and that accomplishes what for me? or my H?? I'm sorry, I just do not get it. I don't see the wisdom in that at all.

its true i'm avoiding conflict.. what seems like unnecessary conflict. That's my issue. If I'm going to add MORE to my plate it had better be worth it.

You seem to think that, if this marriage doesn't work out and you D, then later you can find a man you can finally trust and all this talk about snooping would be gone for good. Dr. Harley does not advocate that kind of trust in any marriage. He says we are all wired for an affair and it's too much trust and a lack of accountability that allows affairs to occur. And here you have a man that you KNOW has cheated on you and you're still resisting snooping. This head in the sand approach is not your best option.

In addition to this.
Snooping:Is it Wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage?

what lack of accountability though? that I should have to spy on everything he is doing, master all kinds of high tech devices.. what kind of life is that? if thats seriously necessary then give me the single life. But u know, my dad never cheated, or my mom, and its true, i can't know the case for everyone, but i know this much, i never heard any public proclamations for anyone else's messing around.

this is how i think about it right now, if the stick of divorce isn't enough to keep my H inline then I don't see how going PI on him is going to make a difference.

my H is, in reality, a principled person. He's got a moral philosophy he takes pretty seriously. My H is doing everything I ask because he does actually feel very bad about this.. and he was totally sure when he told me all I'd leave him, and the look of pain in his face is not something I'll forget. People say all this stuff about his drugging out and screwing around... and i know they've never met the man. He is kind, he is loving, and i believe it in the depths of my heart that had things not been so awful he would not have strayed and sought this kind of comfort. Look the last couple months of my pg and then especially after... for me it was a pit, for him... i called up daily to harangue him, and then called again crying and overwhelmed, daily, i'd say the most meanspirited things and go on and on about it...f eel bad.. be weeping. For everyone else I had a brave face, I took everything out on him.. and you know what, he took it. He didn't raise his voice to me, or lose it, he was patient. He'd come home and hold me, and then, he'd have me sleep through the night and he'd wake up two or three times with twin babies, get up early, and work from dawn to dusk trying to get his project done. he was exhausted, overworked, overwhelmed, and then i up and left him, told him we should have never gotten married, i never really loved him, and all kinds of awful things... when i decided to talk to him at all.

Thank God for medication, thats all i can say about that. I was in a place I pray I never have to visit again.

i am really trying to be blunt with him and myself here... but i feel like he deserves SOME benefit of doubt. I mean, at least a little! that doesn't mean i have to be stupid but i don't feel like sledgehammering him either,, cuz if i am honest, totally honest with myself, i do not think he deserves that.

by the way, he never raised any of this with me discussing the affair, he told me he was stressed out and didn't throw any of this back in my face. and since all this has come to light he's looked awful, i know he's not sleeping very well and not eating enough.

you guys seem very dedicated to this one way of doing things, and that is totally fine... but some of the things do not feel like a fit to me.

You don't understand the addictions of affairs. Your WH had an affair because of his poor boundaries around women.

Dr. Harley has 40+ years of saving marriages. Meet Dr. Harley

Good luck to you redtulip and to those babies. You fight against everything that is advised to you and you know better.

I do wish you well.

I was where you were, my glasses were rosy.......defending my WS, i trusted mine, why shouldn't i have...i married WS, i should trust.......i had the tears, the i am sorry's....

Then i snooped..........i found a mess, i was blamed for the affair, then we started "recovery"....things did not add up again.....more snooping......the A did not end, and it became worse..........much worse.

Yeah, it did not fit me either......but my rose colored glasses came off.

right, there's only one way and one possible answer for every single person on the planet. I feel like everything I post, the very worst interpretation is put on it, like its not possible that maybe the very worst case isn't the truth every time... maybe it makes sense to take into account context? personality? other past issues?

i'm sorry it turned out so crappy logans. seriously... that is lame

Do not be....i got my head out of the sand.....

You missed my point however........

You have a choice to make.

Keep your head in the sand and blindly trust.

Snoop and find nothing.....this would be awesome.

Snoop and find out.....he is leading a secret second life, but you will have the truth about it.

Entirely you choice........

Look, I really hear you, but I'm happy with my level of spying at the moment. I've gathered information and so far everything is more or less consistent...

I was too when i went into recovery....i then found the affair phone, secret trips while I was sleeping at night, secret emails and more.........i'm just saying.....

i know.. and there's definitely wisdom in preparing for the worst. In the week i've known i've gotten a ton of information i'm going through, from him, from my spy schemes, information online (here and elsewhere) and deciding on my exact stance and exactly how i want to proceed and how much weight to give to this thing and how much weight to give to that.

so far i've decided if he was lying to me about any important details i will end it, that definitely includes any secret phones or email addresses.

if he strikes it up with the ow i will end it. ok so i did not tell my neighbor exactly was going on, but i did tell her that this woman was into my H and to keep an eye out on this person, which she was only too happy to do, cuz, the ow likes getting in other peoples business.

i guess i'm saying i'm adapting things to what the situation looks like and based on the information i have.

It is another form of accountability for your husband. A wayward is not as likely to stray again if they know everyone is watching them. You say you want to hide it from your parents and present a false front to them (I'm not sure what that says about your relationship with them, but okay...) because you need help with your children. You've made your choice.

No, it's typically a lot simpler than past issues and personality. And many come here who say things similar to what you're saying. The reason we respond as we do is because those same people have come back later and admitted that we were right. We don't want to see that happen to you. redtulip, you don't have to do anything. If you are comfortable with the status quo, stay there.

Good luck with those babies.

it's not going to be accountability for my H because there will cease to be a relationship between my parents and him. and yes, i'm happy to present something of a front to them because i like them and they help me and i want them to see their grandchildren. that there is something lacking between us is... something i have to work on, but its gonna take a little while. if they found out my H did this, esp. if they knew the WHOLE story there would NOT be forgiveness. i need support, not more enemies to my marriage.

how likely is it that people who were successful doing something different always come back here to report it? it seems like the people who come here are people like me who need help... overwhelmed with emotions, still not sleeping well, still working up an appetite... people who are facing challenges. People who figured it all out aren't the ones who are likely to come back here and tell everyone, hey,, you guys told me to do this thing, i didnt and it is all ok.

i don't think thats a good way to judge the effectiveness of a program to the extent that you guys are promoting it... you need data much more carefully gathered if youre really interested in that.

but still, i appreciate the time everyone took to read and respond to my posts, and the interest in my wellbeing.

Oh redtulip. These would be the first people to come back and throw it in our faces. Truth of the matter is that many many posters come back and say they wish they had listened to us.

why would anybody want to throw that in your face? i don't get that 'us' vs 'them' thing. if a yr from now things are going awesome in my life i don't think it will cross my mind to do a 'told ya so' on an internet forum.

Redtulip, if you wish, feel free to consult Dr. Harley's credentials and the numerous marriages that have been saved using his program.

If you know better than him how to save a marriage, then by all means follow your plan - however, I remind you, that you are a woman whose husband recently impregnated another woman while you guys were living apart - so I would suggest that you are not the prime person to judge what makes a good marriage and what does not.

You wish for your parent's support, but that is only based on lies about what this man has really done. You do not wish him to be held accountable for what he has done, that much is evident - you want to forgive and move ahead. Unfortunately, Dr. Harley has shown over and over that it leads simply to false recovery.

I get it, you have two babies and are under a huge amount of stress and desperate to move forward - but if you want help with Marriage Builders program, you can't ignore basic steps. We're not actually all that special.

Can't We Just Forgive and Forget
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534888#Post2534888
Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.