helpfordad,

I cannot find your thread or'se Ida written there. I see you are chiming in on others' threads, how's things with you?

mss

MSS,

Thanks for your note.

I have been....trying to be okay. Been a bit down lately...everything between us is okay, I guess, but had a bad day last Saturday. Some days I just don't know -- if I'm subconsiously holding on to the pain, or if I simply can't get past it, not matter how hard I am trying.

W got very upset -- said she feels that I am 'disgusted, repulsed' by her, and I am not letting it go.

I don't know if it's resentment, or I'm still working through the 'stages of dying' dealing with the death of our old marriage.

Do you ever wonder if splitting up, while not changing the events that occured, would still separate you, on a daily basis, from the very 'trigger' that caused that pain in the first place?

Maybe I am evolving to a new realization that I just don't have the wherewithal, after the struggles of the affair itself, etc., to get through an effective recovery (which, ironically, is even more difficult).

I am haunted by the knowns and unknowns of her affair, and maybe I have to acdept that's just going to be too much for me to move past.

I've blathered on too long....I hope that YOU are doing well, and all is okay on the homefront.

Thank you!

Blather on, my brother, because all the you write is all that I think as well.

I dont want to re-write my 2 threads here but needless to say much of the angst I still feel a year later.

Im a picture of innner conflict as it appears you are too.

My problems stem from the sheer length of time she stayed with him. How at some point it became easy and without fear of being caught. And most of all how she must have, for waaaaayyyy too long, had absolute no feelings for me at all. Zero. How else could she have done the things she did which I wont rehash today?

The conflict comes when I look back at the 12 months since dday and how great she has been. How dedicated to us she has been.

The only reason to leave would be to deal her the final punishment. This is something I cant find myself doing to my kids. Will it remove the bad memories? No. It would be to deliver incredible hardship to her and 2 innocent kids.

HFD, I described it less than eloquently as having to eat a turd sandwich on a daily basis. You and I are heros who dine at the crapola buffet. We stroll the high ground while our W will spend their lives knowing they are capable of the lowest things possible in society. The are recovering adulterers. They are to be pitied and to be saved by heros.

I'd hate to be them. They are subject to these 'bad days' when a movie or a restaurant or song can send their husbands in to a effed up mood. Thankfully and luckily for them, these days seem to be fewer and far between because heros are able to get passed these things.

She doesnt say anything about her past with him which I believe stems from a long term bout of temporaty insanity. Only an insane person would do what she did.

We do have the power to struggle thru this only if our W are wind in our sails. They have a large window for failure.

Yes, I have lots of questions that I dont want the answers to. Im not a lawyer but lawyers only ask questions that they know the answer beforehand. The questions I have I pretty much know the answers to. To ask them and to demand an honest answer is to embarass her and demean her. Not to mention drive me into a tizzy.

I really hope your W is as committed to removing what was done as mine is. She knows anything short of it would be met with certain actions by me. It hasnt come anywhere close to this.

Keep us in the fold.

Very first thing;


How has your UA time been?


Secondly; radical honesty. I know I had to have a complete moratorium on phrases like: get over it, move past it, move forward.

Any time NGB used any phrase like that I just bristled. I just made a simple request; please, do not make any statements in that vein. You cut my heart out and I'm trying to grow it back... even if I wanted it to, it won't do so at your request. I'm here. Now. Let's go from there.


A reformed wayward lives in a constant state of fear. They fear that day we will cash in that "get out of marriage free" card.

It's our job to quit flashing the sucker while we try to learn to breathe again.

HHH,

1. UA time -- probably not where it needs to be

2. A reformed wayward lives in a constant state of fear. They fear that day we will cash in that "get out of marriage free" card.

It's our job to quit flashing the sucker while we try to learn to breathe again.

Great points...I think I had a 'flare up' recently, and this is W's fear: SHE asked ME if I was sure I was 'all-in' becasue SHE is, and wants to move forward WITH ME...

I still get so angry and resentful sometimes, and probably DID have a look of 'disgust, repulsed' on my face...maybe I am holding on/flashing that card when I shouldnt any longer...

(W is in no way DEMANDING I 'get over it'...she doesn't want ME living in the past weighing down our recovery).

Thank you!

From another thread. One of he best bits of advice to a ww about a subject i have thought about since day 1--

"Hmmmmmm.....

As for the whole 'used for sex' thing...

Used implies a) he's tricking/manipulating you or b) he's not committed to you. Neither of which is true as he was honest about what he wanted and he is married to you. The fact he might choose to divorce in the future doesn't make him any less your husband now.

The whole concept of being used boils down to your walking on egg shells with him about the level of commitment. You feel powerless and that has the side effect of making people feel manipulated and used. So take power. You're his wife until he divorces.

The response to the 'just for fun' comment would be something like: 'Oh it will be. I've been longing to be in my husbands arms again' reiterate YOUR commitment and your rightful position as much as possible. That's the truth of the matter until actions make it otherwise. Marriage is marriage until divorce. There is no limbo. There is also no need to text him for commitment, as you already have it. Neediness is a love buster and there is no need to feel 'used' in the future if he chooses to D. You slept with him as his wife.

The other crux of the problem is that sex doesn't appear to be a high EN for you. When he wants needs like affection or RC you don't feel used, - but when its meeting a need for him, and he uses the term 'fun' you're offended because sex isn't a high need. If he referred to meeting one of your high needs as 'fun' I doubt you would have the same reaction. So he may not fully appreciate your perspective.

You're fully within your rights to say no to sex that makes you uncomfortable, but I predict if you were to seize the power of the situation, you wouldn't feel used.

If you were to say, 'I'm your wife, I'm yours whenever' rather than asking HIM to say that, you'd feel more powerful.

Even if he were to disagree, just smile and say you hope he feels differently soon, but until you see divorce papers, you feel you belong in the bed where your husband sleeps whenever he wants you there."

I always thought since my sex life with my wife was bad during her affair (and before) that she would look to be a hero in bed. However, I grappled with "using" her. I didnt want to take advantage of a down person. It was a conversation with her when she said in no uncertain terms almost exactly was was written above.

She said that she did not turn into a non-stop sexual being with him despite any misconceptions I hold. And among her regrets depriving me of her intimately is way up there. She said she doesn't fully know what our future holds but our bedroom life is the easiest part of recovery for her.

Perhaps I can do a better job of allaying her concerns about our future as in NOT doing so I dont give her a feeling of security. Maybe a love buster in and of itself.

As a fairly chaste person before and during our marriage she knows the damage the affair had on me with regard to jealousy. And how it crushed me as a man. She knows giving herself sexually to another while I was left alone so many times was almost unforgivable.

The part of the advice where the ww gains power by giving herself to the BH is about as salient of a point as I've read on the subject. I truly feel she feels some modicum of redemption and self respect that she desperately wants. Not to mention it has gotten us closer as a couple in more ways than physically.

My wife has looked me in the eyes with a seriousness that is clear and said on the several occasions where I asked her if Im hurting her or demanding or expecting it too much, "Im yours whenever", just like what was advised above, and I will say that nothing, nothing is as powerful as that. I get emotional just thinking about it because it makes me feel like a man and, more importantly, makes me want to be a better person while I move further away from it.

I told her as part my conditions to stay together that this part of our marriage will be crucial and she has been as committed to it today as she was day 1. She has made sex with me one her highest needs and that is the difference.

I think the above post are words to live by for a ww especially as they were written by a bw.

Because my wife has lived this advice and Im terribly proud how well she has followed not only this advice, but the entire preferred FWW MB playbook really without anyone having to tell her how, I copied her on the original post.

I never had reason to doubt her sincerity in the sack post dday but I wanted her know what it means to me to have her as my partner in every respect.

Good job, Mike! The more you praise your wife for the great partner she is now, she will want to rise even higher to the occasion.

You should always be aware that yours is one of the limited number of fully "returned" FWWs of the recent MB past. Cherish her and maintain EAOTP.

Im trying to keep my postings of inspiration only to BH with wives who are remorseful and doing whatever it takes to keep their husbands around and the BH is the purgatory I dwelled (and unfortunately sometimes still find myself). Sort of the only stuff I know all about.

I sometimes get too jaded and too easily 'throw out' the WW who is foggy and not immediately snapped out of it on dday. I have little patience for that and its probably not fair to both the BH and his wife that I suggest separation without giving some of the initial MB steps a chance.

I love my wife as much as the next guy, but I will say this like I did last year, if there was anything less than full remorse, regret, and a overhaul of her way of life, mss would be gone. If what she was up to was what she wanted and central to her happiness, I would never prevent that from happening. Id have taken my kids and moved on.

Luckily it never came close to that.

------

OK, NG, Ill bite, what do you Alec Baldwin and Letterman have in common???

I was wondering that too! (About NG's new sig)

Im on a rare business trip away for a week.

She texts to me the other night, "because I know you'll be mad, I invited (her female friend) over for coffee rather than going to Starbucks".

I went a little over the edge. I texted her back that it would have been better to say that she invited xxx over for coffee and leave it at that rather than implying its MY FAULT she cant go out.

I asked her if I need to remind her why she is no longer allowed to go for coffee with a friend.

I informed her that I spent the last 4 weeks leading up to my trip thinking about all my prior trips and how nothing was to stop her from making each of those nights a date night. And, how many of the coffee with a girlfriend evenings that I permitted and trusted her were to meet up with someone other than who she said she was meeting up with?

Now, to be clear my wife and her OM had a mind boggling amount of time to be alone during the daytime hours when she "worked" as his assistant so evening dates were somewhat rare but I do know that they certainly occurred.

I will not accept comments that in any way complain or in some form appear to place a blame on me for conditions I set to protect me. She has never said anything like this since dday and her commitment to us has not be in question.

I did have some anxiety about this trip with it being my first time away since dday. I didnt tell her as I felt it would be something I could keep to myself.

I quickly apologized.

Fifteen months since dday and despite living as close to MB principles as I can, Im still wrangling with anger and resentment. The biggest difference is I manage to keep it within me.

Some of the recent topics in the Forums have hit home and, in truth, have done a lot to anger me.

I bummed she did this to me. Simple as that.

Sounds like the trip and coffee are triggers. Sorry for that.

Is there any way she can come to you for the remaining of the trip?

I wouldnt say the trip was a trigger in and of itself. Being on the other side of the country is. I have the trust, but when Im home I have a better ability to verify. Which is the way I live my life.

Its not possible for her to join me here. We thought about it but just not something we can manage.

I dont travel out of town too much any more.

Theres a long time poster who I find a must read. He doesnt appear on my thread but when he posts, however infrequently, I pay attention.

He appeals to a dark side of recovery that I fear I may have to live with forever. Not so much a fear of she doing this to me once again, I fear that very little.

He writes about a malaise, an indifference, over the marriage that I hope I never reach. His was a VLTA. Mine was also a LTA which Im sure only he and I would agree sets it apart from shorter term affairs. Its about a lifestyle our wives not only created, but suscribed to for months, then years. Maybe there is no difference about a drunken ONS while on convention in Vegas vs a LTA but to us, there is a major difference.

They made spending time both sexual and otherwise part of their normal existence. He mentioned a "lost decade" and, man, thats exactly how I refer to my wife's A. I look at photos of things we did at the time and I think, hey she was doing xxx at that time. And there are millions of things we did while she was with him. All tainted.

I have been trying desperately not to look back. This is the suggestion of many. I read something recently here about looking at the mountain behind as you move away. The mountain is certainly out in the distance but when its so huge, it seems to be taking forever to get away from it.

Mostly his posts are negative and stuff I do not need in my life. But, like a moth to a flame, I must read. In some bizarre way its nice to hear from someone fairly near my situation who is further down the road in recovery, as it were.

His questions are my questions.

I know the mantra and keys to success which perhaps he didnt fully adhere to or attempt to achieve. Tons of UA and meeting each needs. Im only 14 months post dday and maybe Im still allowed to feel some of the things he feels.

I fear I may feel these things still when I hit his stage in recovery.

I wonder how ofter a BH sticks around with his WW, who is amply remorseful and stands on her head to meet the BH's needs and is desperately seeking her H's love and acceptance, for years only to have him throw in the towel at some later point. He sticks around to give MB a chance or to see children off to school or marriage because he is a forgiving sort and doesnt think the kids deserve what their mother created.

Id be lying if I didnt say this is a pre-occupation of mine, sadly.

No need to ask: we are getting lots of alone time and theres been nothing to give me security concerns.

Easy metric: If your marriage isn't better THAN IT EVER WAS two years after beginning to apply MB principles, then it's probably time to "hang up the cleats", as Dr. Harley likes to say.

That's the litmus test I use to gauge that my marriage is joyfully MUCH better than ever. We still have a few profound warts, and about once a quarter I have an incredibly bad day that reminds me of times around D-Day, but compared even to our first year of marriage our marriage now is BLISSful.

You are not alone, my man. Although my FWW A was 1-1/2 years (not nearly as long as your W�s), I have put much thought into this.

Been struggling with the �what if�s� of our future.
I have recently come to terms with committing to myself that I will be the one that writes the chapters of my future.

Regardless of others experiences, good or bad, in R, my story is mine to make real. Sounds like your FWW has turned into a real gem, as mine has; Epitome of remorse and effort to R.
I�m determined to script the chapters of my future with optimism, hope and love. I know I can�t control anyone but myself.

Remorseful W, following MB�s to the letter of the law, feeling great about the changes I have made in myself and my ability to make good choices in the future. What else do we have?

We can �what if� ourselves into misery if we aren�t careful.

Hello my friend, we meet again
It's been awhile, where should we begin?
Feels like forever
Within my heart are memories
Of perfect love that you gave to me
Oh, I remember

When you are with me, I'm free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
My sacrifice

We've seen our share of ups and downs
Oh how quickly life can turn around
In an instant
It feels so good to reunite
Within yourself and within your mind
Let's find peace there

When you are with me, I'm free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
My sacrifice

I just want to say hello again
I just want to say hello again

When you are with me I'm free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
Cause when you are with me I am free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
My sacrifice, My sacrifice

I just want to say hello again
I just want to say hello again

My sacrifice.


--Creed.

Heard this song today while on the road. Its probably a song about God which is good.

But, man when I had the windows down and the radio jacked up high, I was cruising down Rte 91 with it on and I was fist pumping and for the few minutes I was above worry, above the anger, and I was above it all.

I mean, I do have it on CD and can listen any time, but today with the sun out and road relatively empty and 65 mph speed limit it came on the radio and I had a moment.

Thought Id share.