OWH,

I do agree with ML you should speak with OM, even if he lies his lies will not line up with WW, if you tell him your WW said 20 times he might tell you it was only 9 etc.

Did you ever expose the OM.

Call the OMW tell her she needs to get a polygraph for OM.

God Bless
Gamma

I'm very sorry your on-again, off-again suspicions of a physical affair between WW and her co-worker seem to have been well-founded. Her cold-blooded efforts to deflect your suspicions onto another party, as I recollect the events, speak volumes to the depths that WSs will go to to protect their AP "fix".

Please know that those of us here will help you as you need it, and request it.

She's not bombed-out on muscle relaxers. She's not asleep - she's dodging you.

I'm sorry, OldWarHorse.

Thanks, all.

No, OM isn't, and has never been, married. No kids. No friends. Estranged from his mother and siblings. Father died in 2009.

Think I'll just sit back for a day or two and see how my wife handles it. I mean, it's one thing to bomb the polygraph, but to take drugs to try to pass it -- and think I wouldn't find out? I almost hate to admit this: it is seriously, sadly humorous to me that she thinks I'm so stupid.

Oh well. Things are definitely gonna be interesting in OWH's house for a while!

Probably like MB says, hiding under the influence

I'm sorry too OWH

OWH,

Although this is painful, this step was necessary.

God Bless
Gamma

OWH,

I am so sorry to hear this! Man... Just popped back in to check on things. Hope you are getting the truth now.

CV

Hey, CV! And again, thanks to all of you for your support.

What a curious situation I'm in. There are folks on the SAA board that I bet would kill to have a wife come back to the marriage as quickly and cleanly as did mine.

I wonder if they'd be able to sacrifice knowing the truth/details about their affairs in order to "save" their marriages? Could they build a future with such a hole in their past? I bet they'd answer: yes.

For some reason, I just can't do it. I cannot let go of the affair knowing there's another man who has secrets about my marriage to which I'm not privy.

The mountain of evidence I've collected is staggering. It is unbelievable that she stubbornly holds to her lies in the face of the evidence. I cannot understand the psychology involved.

But, I saw it in her. In my first day of journaling (which was two days after D-Day), I wrote this prophetic statement: ". . . she will go to her grave living a lie rather than ever admit she's done something this wrong."

These are interesting times in which I'm living; the Chinese Proverb kind of interesting times. Lucky me!

OWH,

Could they build a future with such a hole in their past? I bet they'd answer: yes.

Except some understand that they will hurt for 10, 20 or more years, and don't want to have the affair pop into their minds every other day or so.

For some reason, I just can't do it. I cannot let go of the affair knowing there's another man who has secrets about my marriage to which I'm not privy.

For me it's not just that my W shares secrets with OM, but she is also sharing secrets with OMs' Mom, the other co-workers and who knows who were witnesses.

". . . she will go to her grave living a lie rather than ever admit she's done something this wrong."

And you may want to remind her that her lie will follow her into her next relationship if she divorces.

Are you going to speak with OM?

God Bless
Gamma

Well, I remember asking myself the question "what am I willing to accept to be married to this woman?" I know a lot of folks who would do exactly what you wrote... Live with not knowing the truth/details in order to save their marriage. I wasn't willing to do that. I wanted 100% full disclosure immediately or it was over. Why? because I believe that when a spouse cheats, the marriage contract, the covenant of marriage is effectively broken.

One of the worst things I've heard from counselors is "don't ask the details", but the devil is in the details... It's where you get to the heart issues. It's why MB works so well for so many people, I guess. It forces heart issues to be dealt with. I think that's why we were all attracted to this place. The folks here "get it".

I remember coming here, what.. Just over a year ago? I had told myself for 3 years I didn't need help and could do it on my own and I stone-walled. I needed a kick in the pants to get over the hump and MB filled in the gaps of what i was missing... I think it was the same for you. I wish School bus would post on the lying part. She has the Psychology down pat. Truth is, I think that liars hold on to lies long after they are exposed simply because the admission of the truth is too staggering for them to deal with. Once the slippery slope is walked, it's really hard to stop.

If I could offer anything to you it's this... Be tenacious for the truth, and walk uprightly through it all. Meek doesn't equal pansy. I have no doubt you'll be this. I've seen your strength here.


CV

Great post CV, and I agree with you
OWH to thine own self be true, is the best thing I can tell you.

If you want to continue when you don't know the truth, that is up to you, but it's not nessesary, not in any way

Use this site as a way to figure out the best for all involved, first of all you.

Your sitch reminds me of these words penned by someone..

"What a tangeled web we weave, when we first endeavor to deceive"

God bless your untangeling

Gamma,

I don't plan to speak with POSOM at this time. He was issued a NCL on May 22nd, 2011. I don't feel compelled to break that with direct contact at this point. One of the few things I know concerning conversations between POSOM and my wife is that, in their last contact, he strongly exhorted her not to admit to anything. I doubt he'd do anything other than call the police if I contact him.

It's not completely off the table, but I doubt contact with POSOM would be anything but disastrous.

This is one of the things I'm fighting against. The first hack we visited seemed appalled that I "demanded a confession," and was adamant that a confession was not appropriate or necessary. That was our last visit to her. I refused to go thereafter.


I believe this is the issue with my wife. After all this time, she's entrenched in the lies and sees no other alternative but to live with them.


I will try. I've really tamed my AOs over the last 18 months. She accused me of "shouting" at her Friday in the car, but I explained I was shouting to try to wake her up so I could assess whether I was dealing with a medical emergency. She doesn't remember it now, anyway . . . or really much of anything else that happened last Friday!

She's waiting for the written report of the polygraph so she can directly address the results.

A WS is not coming back 'hat in hand' if they are still unwilling to practice RH and meet their spouses need for O&H. Not to mention that they have the lack of care to do what is required for their spouse to heal from their atrocious deeds.

Those who are 'recovering' with WS's unwilling to do these things, IMO, are not in recovery at all.

Sorry about the failed poly

She's waiting for the written report of the polygraph so she can directly address the results.

If there is to be more blatant evidence than this statement that WW is nowhere near being restored to "marriage material" status, I cannot imagine it.

On being proven to have lied, a spouse should decide, "Okay, there is no choice but to come clean." Instead, your version says, "O, damn, I have to formulate an entirely new set of lies that are consistent with what the polygraph has revealed," quite possibly to shield some unsuspected transgression(s).

The list of what is to be suspected contains several things:
1) There were multiple OM, either singly or in a group setting.
2) There were OW, possibly in the group setting.
3) There was a pregnancy involved.

I think your digging through that pile of dung has revealed, on the far side.....another, bigger pile.

I don't know how long ago the affair was. The date of your dday.
I do know that unanswered questions and not having the level of truth that you need will never let you get pass the past.

My thoughts exactly!


Very possible there are more than one. My investigation revealed she was behaving as a single woman, with multiple inappropriate contacts with men (she was being chased after like a b- in heat, being an attractive female in a predominantly-male environment). The group setting is highly unlikely, though . . . and quite a disturbing image.



This one is very unlikely.


Also, quite possible.


Without a doubt.

The most likely scenario is that she was involved in a LTA with POSOM between 2006-2008. For some reason, it ended in 2009, then it reignited in 2010. Since I didn't catch her back then, in her mind, she believes it should be off the table.

I scoured records as far back as 2009 and saw there was no contact with POSOM during almost the entire year of 2009. Since I already had proof of the affair in 2010-2011, I stopped there. As of this past weekend, the investigation is back on with urgency. In the next day or so, she'll begin to notice that I ordered hard copies of our telephone records and credit card bills going back to 2006.

Last year, she became very ditressed at how effective I am at research and was mortified that I was able to rebuild her past steps and activities. She was losing hair by the fist-full.

Guess I better get some screens on the shower drain . . .

So, my question is this:

Could my wife's refusal to provide details about her affair be construed as the "lack of remorse" of a WW?

If so, is my persistent investigation and exhortations for the truth about the affair a "love-busting" behavior?

OWH,

Yes. I would say so. One who is remorseful owns what they have done and remorse is sorrow over the truth of what they've done, not a lie that's been constructed to protect themself. I would not consider investigation lovebusting behavior, because it is digging for the truth, where no truth is being offered. It's lovebusting to keep secrets about the affair, not to find the details of it. As long as there are no AO's on your part, it's not lovebusting.

CV

OWH,

Could my wife's refusal to provide details about her affair be construed as the "lack of remorse" of a WW?

Since she is hiding even the basic truth from you it would be hard to tell, as her dishonesty is creating so many conflicting emotions.

If so, is my persistent investigation and exhortations for the truth about the affair a "love-busting" behavior?

Possibly you should quit asking until you've finished your investigation. Given what you've said about your W, she will not crack until evidence is shown. So any questioning will go nowhere or result in more incomplete answers. That's also part of the reason why I suggested that you go to OM.

One of the few things I know concerning conversations between POSOM and my wife is that, in their last contact, he strongly exhorted her not to admit to anything.

I didn't respond to that before, but she is still loyal to OM's wishes.

I know my W is still loyal to OM2 even after 20+ years and that is a major issue with me which simply will not go away. I think it is because my W was in between OM2 girlfriend and OM2W and she overlapped both and she fears I will go to OM2W.

Did you expose the OM at work?

God Bless
Gamma