So you won't get the tattoo until you POJA it?

Did you listen to the clips?

At this point, I won't get a tattoo... I didn't listen to the clips yet, but I did upload the Harley Radio app to my iPhone and have listened to one of those...

Here are some good letters.
Trouble with POJA

Mrs WLD, please take some time to read the articles on this site - especially the link to the POJA that Brain Hurts gave you.

I went back and re-read your old posts. Years ago, when you began posting, this site was much different than it is today. The previous forums spent a lot of time on chat and blogging, not so much on Dr. Harley's concepts for recovering marriages. As a matter of fact, I don't think I saw even one reference to Dr. H's concepts in any of your posts. This was a detriment to posters who needed help back then, but thankfully that has changed. We are completely geared to promoting Dr. H's concepts because they work. That's probably why you weren't familiar with the term "POJA". It is a cornerstone of a healthy marriage. A smart girl like you would do well to read up on it.

Read, come back with questions. No tattoo for now, okay? Once it's on there it's hard to remove. And you may realize after some time on this site that a tattoo may not be the best thing for your marriage.

Mrs WLD,

My H and I negotiate and use the POJA every day, on minor and major topics. A couple of years ago, we learned and practiced on who to vote for on "America's Got Talent". Dr. Harley often refers to his and his wife Joyce's negotiation skills on the radio show. I hope you get to listen to these shows.

I could not really tell from your original post. Does your husband have angry outburts? Is that why you described him the way you did? If so, I recommend you take a look at the "Lovebusters" book. It addresses disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, ans independent behavior. Have some of these crept into your marriage over the last few years?

AM

Thank you BrainHurts, Maritalbliss and armymama,
Yes, I can certainly see that things around here have changed a bit!! Silly me for thinking I can just jump right back in...

Yes, my H does have AO, a LOT. He is quite often sarcastic, and as I said, stubborn about his opinion being the "right" opinion. I do not see that describing him as he acts is being disrespectful... in FACT, as I have repeatedly asked him to stop this behavior, he is disrespecting me..

We are no where near an apocalypse as we were pre_A, however, I am certainly not happy... On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being a GREAT marriage, I am at about a 5. So it is time to talk about that... my GREAT counselor gave us that tool. Again, no one here knows any more than the very limited bit I have disclosed, but my counselor has my marriage AND our individual health in mind, as they should co-exist...

It is certainly possible to have a "10" marriage. The keys are to avoid doing things that hurt each other (lovebusters) and do the things that meet each other's emotional needs. Start by eliminating the lovebusters. Your husband should eliminate the angry outbusts. You should stop the disrespectful judgements and independent behavior. You are hurting each other with these behaviors. How to deal with these is covered in the "Lovebuster" book. It also covers POJA and negotiation techniques.


I think the concern about your counselor is that she would recommend you practice an independent behavior (getting a tattoo) without regard to your husband's feelings. How can that help your marriage - doing something on purpose that upsets your husband?

Have you ever considered the MB online program? It provides you with a coach and also access to Dr. Harley. I believe that without MB, my husband and I would be divorced. Instead, we are in love with each other and care and protect each other.

AM

Unfortunately, your counselor doesn't know anything about fixing marriages. Marriage Builders DOES. Talking is nice, but won't get you anywhere without a PLAN. If you want to change your marriage, you have to have a PLAN. A bad marriage is NOT GOOD for your individual health. Having a great marriage would do more to enhance your mental health than anything else you can do.

And you are right that the board has changed alot! They actually discuss Marriage Builders here now!

We can help you transform your marriage, MrsWLD.

Mrs WLD,

I think a lot of times when a marriage is not fulfilling, people want to take refuge in finding something that they like. In Dr. Harley's terminology, your Taker wakes up and says "It's my turn! Let's do something for me for a change!"

Your husbands angry outbursts are absolutely unacceptable. And your unfaithfulness a decade ago is absolutely not an issue any more. Dr. Harley's plan for recovery is not "the wayward spouse bows and scrapes for the rest of their life because of their sin." Dr. Harley suggests what he calls Just Compensation, which essentially means doing the things that will lead to a great marriage. And Dr. Harley quickly adds that Just Compensation is not something that will HURT. It's something that would be wonderful for you as well, because you would finally get the marriage you are made for.

The obstacle to you guys having a great marriage is not your unfaithfulness ten years ago. (Here's what Dr. Harley has to say about that: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html) It is love busters, like your husband's angry outbursts.

Here is one reason I would fire your counselor: Dr. Harley takes a ZERO TOLERANCE stance toward angry outbursts. They should not be infrequent. They should never happen AT ALL. I would write to Dr. Harley at his radio show and ask him for help getting your husband involved in taking responsibility for eliminating his angry outbursts. You cannot and should not continue to endure this.

With a happy marriage, you won't have so much of a "Time to do something for ME!" feeling, because everything you and your husband do will make you both happy!

The recommendation above for the book Love Busters is a great recommendation. If the two of you worked through the lessons in that book and followed Dr. Harley's recommendations, you would probably take care of going most of the way toward a marriage of bliss. I heard somebody who wrote into Dr. Harley's show use the phrase "deliriously happy" to describe their marriage. Dr. Harley and his wife have been IN LOVE for almost fifty years, so it can be done, and he teaches people how to do it.

If you have an older edition of Love Busters, I would try to get ahold of a copy of the newest one (I think it was published in about 2010), because Dr. Harley has a LOT of expanded material in it. In particular he goes into a lot more detail about what to do about angry outbursts. (I'm always confused when I accidentally pick up one of our older copies of this book, because so much is missing.)

Dr. Harley really laid it on the line for me and explained that this kind of behavior has to STOP. I hope you'll email him and see if you can get your husband involved in talking to him; Dr. Harley is GREAT in getting through to people about the devastating effects of anger on their marriage.

There was a great Marriage Builders radio broadcast just this week where Dr. Harley explained to a man who is in anger management how to start negotiating his problems with his wife, in a way that will make them both happy.

Um. Is this the same 'great' counselor who encouraged you to get the tattoo without your husband's agreement?

Not good.

Ok... Enough of the "get rid of your counselor"... She, as I said earlier, is a huge component of my marriage making it beyond divorce. She has read Dr. Harley's books and strongly encouraged us to come here a decade ago... She has... EVERY TIME I brought it up (until just this last time), advised me against doing anything that my H felt so strongly about. She would instead try to get me to figure out why it was so important to me to get one. This last time, my sister and brother were with me and we were telling her about the symbolism of the tatoo I wanted. You see, we three were molested and abused as children. This is something that we only just realized in full (by finally TALKING to each other about it, we realized we were ALL victims) and the tatoo is very symbolic for us. Abuse goes back in both sides of my family for generations. Our older sister was abused, we are sure since children don't automatically abuse their siblings, and she is our main abuser. But the three of us STOPPED THE CYCLE of abuse... So the tatoo would MEAN something. My sis and bro have theirs already...THAT is what our counselor heard for the first time and encouraged me to express that to H... To be sure he knows what it would mean to me....
She isn't going anywhere so please leave that alone... I DO recognize all the concern you have shown, i see that i didn't portray her correctly,and I can only assure you that she is on track....

But she is not on track when she would encourage independant behavior on your part.

She is also obviously not on track because it has been A DECADE and you are still struggling with basic POJA.

Agreed, so it is a good thing she doesn't do that! Please... I get it.

No... It has been ten years since our affair, I haven't been around here, so POJA hasn't been part of our work lately. I have been busy healing ME

What are you healing FROM? And what about your marriage?

Melody...
Did you read my post...?