This is the approach I take, say nothing.

I was recounting a situation from a few years back when my step children did not come home by their curfew, nor did they call, didn't answer their phones, etc.

Finally, two hours after curfew, I get a call saying they didn't have a ride as they thought. So I get them, I don't say a word and tell them to go to bed, I'm too angry to think rationally about this, but after I confer with their mother (who was out of town with her mom) I would impose consequences for their actions.

Got up the next morning, spoke with their mother explaining the situation and asking how she felt about grounding until she gets home and taking their cell phones since they didn't feel the need to call, allowing her to introduce the final punishment once she returned from her weekend with mom.

She agreed and I did that.

One of the kids ultimately lost the phone for another three weeks due to sending 21 text messages after being instructed to surrender the phone. So an extra day for each text message sent while the phone was off limits.

I have learned not to even consider punishment, consequences, etc while I am upset, angry, or whatever words one might use to describe such feelings.

I googled a bit and this is also a sin? This would be that resentment thing. Type A or B, no?

"Anger also becomes sin when the angry one refuses to be pacified, holds a grudge, or keeps it all inside" (Ephesians 4:26-27).

But back to the original question; it seems then that an AO is Appropriate behaviour if it's rightous? Also if I'm understanding MB correctly the person having the AO doesn't get to define it as an AO or not. In MB the definition is left to the one that is offended or disaproving of the behaviour, yes?

While it's true, the one experiencing the behavior CAN and does get to define it, it doesn't mean they correctly define it.

For example, how many waywards have we seen define their spouses boundaries surrounding what they will and will not tolerate as controlling or mean-spirited, etc?

Sure, they get to define it. I won't argue with that. However, there is no assurance they will correctly define it. They may simply try to use "feelings" to manipulate the situation.

I'm not saying we shouldn't take how others interpret our behavior into consideration. We should. But I'm saying we need to be rational about it. If the person interpreting the behavior has demonstrated she is not honest, then how much weight do we put on the expressed interpretation?

Actually, I would suggest communicating one thing, please give me some space right now.

If someone says, "I'm angry and I don't want to talk about it while I feel this way, can we do this later?" and the other keeps at it, I think they are doing a disservice to the one trying to keep his/her anger in check.

While I know we all own our responses, I think we also owe the honesty of telling our spouse where we are right now. If I'm angry and it's not a good time to talk because I'm trying to work through the anger to a safe state, we owe it to our spouse to be honest about where we are.

Like I told my teen step children, I'm angry, so now would not be a good time for you to make your case, let alone for me to consider any punishments.

Perhaps that's counter-intuitive, but I think it's a good idea to calmly suggest it's not a good time to have a discussion.

Does anyone see anything wrong with communicating that it's a bad time to engage in a dialog?

Of course, I see the other example. The story of Nabal in scripture. Nabal's wife was wise that she knew not to approach him when he was in his drunken rage. She approached David instead who was prepared to kill Nabal for his unwillingness to pay David and his men for their protection.

FWIW, Nabal means fool and his wife was wise to allow God to deal with her fool.

EE,


I would say if one spouse looks for some space because they are becoming emotional (AO or otherwise), and the other spouse doesn't back off...

Both are not in the emotional state to be having a conversation. If your spouse requests that you back off, and you keep at it... I'd be willing to bet you are having an AO.

One vow I've kept to myself since my wife and I have been together, is I will not argue. Arguments are almost always emotionally charged, and once emotion kicks in, no good conclusion can be reached.

Once things take a turn, I remove myself from the room. If she follows me into the other room, I leave the house.


I cannot control my wife, but I can refuse to be goaded.


(To be fair, this behavior hasn't happened in years)

Usually, I'm the one requesting the break. Sometimes because I perceive that I may have an AO, sometimes because I feel as if I'm being attacked.

Usually, saying let's go at this later is sufficient. Sometimes one of us needs to walk away.

I can see both sides. In my first marriage, I was a "keep at it guy." Why? Because from past experience, if it didn't get worked out then, my ex-wife would just ignore the topic. Based on prior experiences with her, I did not believe she would honor her agreements to have the discussion later. Too many failures to keep her word. So I was not enthusiastic about her requests to have the discussion later because it would seldom happen.

Not that it does any good to continue to force the issue. But if you don't follow up and have the discussion, future requests to postpone the discussion are less likely to be enthusiastically embraced.

So it's good to postpone until later, as long as you keep your word and actually have that conversation. One can make that a much more difficult prospect when they fail to keep their word with respect to the postponed conversation.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the offended half get's to define all of the offending behaviour. DJs, AOs, SDs etc.

One of my major stumbling blocks is trying to reassure my offended half that the motive she is applying to my behaviour is not accurate; what I mean is the motive I'm being branded with is far from my mind and I try to articulate that to her.

It turns out that my "defense?" of my character/motive and trying to explain that's not what I'm about at all has the negative effect of "invalidating her feelings".

I know the feeling of being attacked. I know when my wife is getting upset by her tone of voice and volume... and once the scale tips, she goes right for the twig-n-berries.

Didn't I say they get to define the behavior?

I'm saying just because they get to define it, there is no guarantee they will honestly or correctly define it.

I.E. the example of the wayward who defines your behavior to suit her purposes. Sure, she can define it, she does define it. But that doesn't mean she will honestly or correctly define it.

I.E. she calls her husband who will not remain in a relationship where she is being unfaithful controlling. He is not controlling, he is saying he will not engage in a three way relationship.

When I told my ex-wife I would not pay her gym membership, car payment, etc as long as she was in her affair, she countered with the accusation that I was controlling.

She can choose to see the behavior that way. I cannot stop her. But it doesn't mean her appraisal was honest or accurate. It certainly is how she chooses to see it. I never argued against that.

We caution BH's all the time to be careful about accepting the characterizations presented by WW's.

Yes, you said that I was more or less reiterating. I appreciate you sharing your perspective on the offended ones appraisals...very interesting.

With that said, you still have to work with what they've expressed.

Of course, the "out" here is that most waywards are angry when they are found out, their supply lines from the BH are cut, etc, and they lash out with their own AOs!

I don't really want to make this about waywards, as the topic is larger than that. But the wayward example does show how we cannot trust those engaged in an AO, including the wayward spouse who throws accusations in the hopes of getting the betrayed spouse to back off.

They probably do believe you are controlling. But then, they are abducted by aliens, they can't see clearly in their self-made fog, etc.

In no way am I saying the BS doesn't need to address things. They just need to rely on OBJECTIVE feedback, not foggy feedback from their spouse. As long as they are engaged in their affair and angry about you catching them, cutting off their supply lines, either to your resources so they don't cake-eat, or keeping them from their OP if you have managed to get that far, then their feedback is suspect at best.

FWIW, one of the reasons for me stating should I be betrayed again by a spouse I would walk away is I would be too angry to consider working with them on a better marriage.

The safest thing I could do for both them and myself is to walk-away.

No need for the anger surrounding betrayal, the unfaithful are not worth it. I tried it once and know better than to try again.

Look at that, I even participated in that thread. A few things I didn't agree with theologically, I.E. only one sinless human and one made sinless by being filled with grace Others believe differently and we'll all get it sorted out with God if we even care the day we face Him.

But I'm not sure I'm speaking about rage. Just comparing/contrasting anger to one manifestation, angry outbursts.

This is an interesting thread. Through the process of recovery I observed I was immediately dealing w/two types of expressions of anger. I was not trying to deal with FOO AND my marriage situation too--- but in the end that's the cards I happened to be dealt. Its been very painful. My mother has had a verbal AO problem my entire life and lately she is easily triggered. In the mean time dealing w/my husbands withdrawal and defense mechanisms such as excuses, intellectualizing, silence and so on all total both expressions had the effect of sending me into depression. I likely assumed I'd be safe w/my husbands method of dealing with difficult to express feelings.

Anyway, I have noted these expressions of anger were projections onto me. I did not deserve any of it whether my mom used me to momentarily help herself feel better or when my husband chose to not own his own feelings and deal with them in a healthy honest and direct fashion.

Thankfully, today there has been significant growth and change. There is still room to grow-- but its happening positively. Another miracle---at age 80 my mom has begun to attend Alanon! It would have helped to have her support through the years but I am grateful she is learning to take care of herself in a healthier fashion.