Boundaries = Extraordinary Precautions

I did not see this as a real issue until now, and it really concerns me. I had never seen her as having such poor boundaries around men.

Maybe I need to be concerned that this was not just the only A she had.

I had read that an A can happen even if there was a good marriage, but I did not think that could have much applicability to my M. Now I am not so sure.

I am willing and really have been transparent, the issue here is whether she will do so. She's doing some, but not nearly enough.

That makes sense.

I guess I see a distinction between the boundaries that are "who we are" vs. those that are "what we do". I think of "what we do" as EPs rather than boundaries, although I understand your model. It is sort of like the distinction between our reactions to things vs. our behaviors. Dr. H has observed that it is much easier to change our behavior than our reactions. Similarly, it is much easier to set up EPs than it is to control an inappropriate emotional reaction to someone. When my wife and I agree on an EP, I haven't been thinking that we are improving her boundaries (or mine).

We are what we do

MelodyLane and others,

I read the Exposure 101 thread and noticed the following:

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!"



Can this conversation happen if they are still in withdrawal?

I don't think she's in withdrawal at all. I think the affair is just further underground and that exposure needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Why do you think that she is not in withdrawal?

How would I know the difference between it being underground and her in withdrawal?

Also can you offer an answer to the questions in red above?

Because...



She came back out of convenience and has no real motive to end the affair IF she can continue it without you knowing about it.


She's still reinventing the past and, seemingly, struggling with ways to justify demonizing you. Why would she want to demonize you? Could it be to assuage some continued guilt?

And then there's this little tidbit from July...


All that the above tells us is that you know that he's contacted her since her "no contact email" but that you cannot verify the extent of it. Oh, and I'll guarantee that "email" that she sent was either prefaced or followed with an admonition for him to promptly ignore it.

See, you have no real way of telling if she's in contact or not--other than her word which means zilch.

Your telling your WW your conditions for staying married to her can happen at any time. Me, I'd expose this and then tell her that. But you'd better be prepared to follow through with the "or else" or you'll lose all credibility.

Right now, such a conversation isn't going to mean as much if the walls of her little wayward world aren't crumbling around her.

Can any one help me with these issues?

What standards do you require in a marriage?

If she continues with the adultery, what do you want?

Not to sound cavalier, but most boundary breaks end up with either...

Plan C- "that's ok, I'll hang around, don't do it again"
Plan D- "screw this, I'm out of here." Divorce filed.
Plan B- you remove yourself from the drama
Plan FU- you file for divorce and when you see her in court say "Wow, you've really let yourself go!"

I think I read something that Dr. H wrote about how withdrawal may result in anger and resentment toward the BS.

I am not yet able to rule out your view, but I cannot dismiss withdrawal as the cause of much of her conduct.

Can you give me any added insight about withdrawal?

Understood and that's a big reason for you to feel like you're going around in circles--you honestly cannot say for sure just what is going on.

With withdrawal being the easier answer for a betrayed to digest, just make sure you don't become blind to other reasons for her behavior. Spyware is ideal (with a PI being another alternative) but you'll need to know one way or the other.

As the unwitting player in several false recoveries, I can say that hindsight is 20/20 and that "real" recovery looks a hell of a lot different than the "I'm working on it but need some time to think" recovery.

If it's been a month since NC and if you've truly cleaned up your side of the street and eliminated love busters, I would think that you'd be seeing *some* modicum of improvement. But since you cannot rule out contact, that must be addressed or else you're putting the cart before the horse. You'll drive yourself nuts wondering why your best isn't good enough.

We all just want you to cover your rear here and, hopefully, not make the same mistakes that we did.

Refresh my memory--do you have a keylogger on the computer and spyware on her phone? A voice recorder in her car?

I think I am seeing a modicum of improvement. And I have been cleaning up my side of the street for 10 months, and she has defiantly noticed it.

Still, I do not have the technology devices in place so I can not be 100% sure that she is adhering to the NC. I will have difficulty getting them in place and even if I do she can easily get around them by using work phone and computer.

So I do not have many options if I learn she has in fact contacted the OM?

This seems to be an all too common event, I thought there would be good way to handle it.

So its basically suck it up or div if I learn of contact?

That is true, she can always find a way to be in contact if she wants to. But she cannot use her work phone or computer when she is at home or in the car, so you can cover those periods.

Her internet browsing habits at home can be telling, even if she isn't actually emailing OM--looking at craigslist ads for used furniture, looking at apartment listings, looking at attorney's websites, etc.

Make that

either ignore the problem and hope it'll go away on its own

or

refuse to live in a marriage under those conditions.

The former is sticking your head in the sand out of fear of the unknown. The latter is simply stating what you will and will not accept in a marriage and then acting on it.

Whether it ends in divorce is not a certainty. What should be a certainty is that you will not accept adultery in your marriage. Whether your wife chooses to meet that requirement is up to her.

Of COURSE she's going to be angry! You've taken away her drug!

Generally, should BS ask their WS to read any book like Surviving an Affair or HNHN during the recovery process?

Before I found this site, I asked her to read After the Affair by Janis Abrahams Spring. She read part of it, but did not finish it.

I am not fully understanding this because it seems like under Plan A the BS seems to be accepting adultery as they stick around while its going on. I guess I am unclear on this.

Can anyone else give me guidance on how to handle a breach of the no contact by the WS? Is it just words (what words) or is it action too (what action)?

With all the knowledge and experience of the members here, I would think their would be a good protocol, process, or consequence to follow when there is such a breach.