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Hey all. My wife bought the LB and HNHN books and asked if was I interested. I was. I had sensed that there was someone else for several months and had eventually voiced my concerns.
As we were giving each other our LB lists she confessed to an EA. Problem is she trickled truthed me. Phone sex and explicit pics from each other is where the confessions ended. The OM lives in another state and although she admits she invited him to meet her on an out of state business trip (neither his state or ours); he was unable to go.
The supposed reason for the ending of the A is that the OM's wife found emails and became suspicious. The OM dropped contact at that time. My wife called him twice about a month apart and he was noncommital to re-establishing their relationship. "I'll see what I can do" My wife says that no contact has therefore been re-established.
My wife had already gone through the withdrawal and depression prior to our giving MB a go. I actually thought that she was trying to find a way to leave at that time as I didn't recognise her symptoms for what they were. Her symptoms were classic in retrospect.
To cut to the chase; the EA was over FOR 3 MONTHS and last contact had been 2 months. About one month when I found out.
After stewing on it for a while I sent an exposure letter to the OM's wife telling what I know and asking if she indeed knew herself and was there anything else I should know. I told her if there was ANY contact between them again she would be the first to know.
Was the exposure letter appropriate under these circumstances? After all the A was over and done. I have access to email accts and her iphone at this time. I never saw any of the communication and realize she didn't have to tell me anything. I want it to be over and I don't want to bring it up so that she thinks of HIM, but it's still fresh for me ya know?
I'm 55 she's 46 married 13 years we have one son 12. She has an acct here also.
Last edited by lookin4thehandle; 06/23/11 11:05 AM.
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Was the exposure letter appropriate under these circumstances? 100% yes. Congratulations on making such a brave and courageous decision. 
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She has an acct here also. Who is she?
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quote]
Who is she? [/quote]
The beautiful and brilliant LifetimeLearner
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The purpose of Plan A is two-fold:
1. To give your marriage the best chance of success by giving your spouse a taste of how good a spouse you can be. Or, in the case of a wife's infidelity, competing against the other man for your wife's affections.
2. To teach yourself the behavior patterns you need to learn to build your marriage once the affair has ended.
Do those still apply?
The purpose of exposure is three-fold:
1. To shed the light of day on the affair. Affairs thrive in secrecy; exposure is the only effective tool of the betrayed spouse that may have any direct effect on the affair.
2. To obtain support for the betrayed spouse from family, friends, and everyone else who is in a position to help the betrayed spouse recover.
3. To obtain support for the wayward spouse from family, friends, and everyone else. If everybody knows, they are all alert for the warning signs of recidivism.
Do these still apply?
I look at Plan A as practice for the rest of your life. The only differences between a good Plan A and simply practicing MarriageBuilders methods that I see is that you must eventually give some voice to your complaints. Let your Taker have some time to play. A balanced life requires that you both protect yourself and your spouse from the worst sides of both the Giver and the Taker.
My advice for what it's worth? Start living like you're in Plan A right now. Set an end-date for it, at which time you evaluate how you feel about your marriage. At that time, also create a plan to discuss how your spouse can better meet your needs, too.
She might think she's out of withdrawal, but you're not out of the woods yet!
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My H began an instinctive Plan A when I discovered his affair. Oddly, it was the WS in my case who was doing Plan A as a way to help me recover from the affair.
Oh, we had our recovery issues, don't get me wrong. The instinct on his part was to begin meeting my needs, and my instinct was to be destroyed and in collapse mode.
Ultimately his Plan A has paid off. Indeed, it has caused a whole new set of patterns for his behavior. He is quite attentive, and works hard to be sure the things he knows I need are done.
Slowly I moved toward a Plan A lifestyle, although I can honestly say mine was not anything like his was/is. It is hard to beat the master at this game!
You are just into the recovery phase from this affair. You're doing very well, and I agree that your exposure was perfect! The OM's BW has a right to know what her husband has been up to.
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Thanks for the responses and the support.
The OM's wife responded via email. She has known everything for several months wished us the best and threatened me with lawyers if any contact from me or my wife were to occur in the future. From the context and content of her email it would appear she has the OM's testes locked safely and securely away...at least there's that...almost feel sorry for him. ALMOST!
It was pretty miserable around the Ponderosa this weekend. My wife feels that the letter set us back, she feels I did a hit and run with the letter. Seeing as how we were working on eliminating LB's and attempting to meet each others EN's...we should have POJA'd. Especially since she revealed the EA to me. I guess I didn't realise or refused to believe that the OM's wife knew as much as she did, obviously way more than me. Things have gotten better since Sunday though.
The whole ordeal is making me weary. Anyway, I wanted to thank you all for the support and give an update since y'all took the time to respond to my OP.
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My wife feels that the letter set us back, she feels I did a hit and run with the letter. Seeing as how we were working on eliminating LB's and attempting to meet each others EN's...we should have POJA'd. Especially since she revealed the EA to me. One cannot POJA with a spouse who is not being completely & totally honest. Your wife's credibility & honesty has been compromised ... by herself. Problem is she trickled truthed me. Phone sex and explicit pics from each other is where the confessions ended. The OM lives in another state and although she admits she invited him to meet her on an out of state business trip (neither his state or ours); he was unable to go. She did this. Not you. You had every right to contact the other betrayed spouse to compare notes, at least once. Either that, or your wife willingly and joyfully submit to a lie detector test. Now that exposure to the other BS is done, drop it. And that means your wife drops it too.
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The OM's wife responded via email. She has known everything for several months wished us the best and threatened me with lawyers if any contact from me or my wife were to occur in the future. This was after: "After stewing on it for a while I sent an exposure letter to the OM's wife telling what I know and asking if she indeed knew herself and was there anything else I should know. I told her if there was ANY contact between them again she would be the first to know." I have known exposure to the other BS to go badly. Some are shocked and do want to believe that the WS that is named is actually their own spouse. Some will not believe that the evidence the BS has is evidence of an affair - more of a friendship gone wrong (!). Once or twice I have seen an OPS threaten the WS or harass the BS. However, I have never known the OPS threaten the BS with the police after the first contact, just like that. Why, if they know that the allegation is true, would they set the police on the BS if more information is produced? If they believe that the affair actually happened, they normally (reluctantly, perhaps) agree to let the BS know if anything else comes up. I suspect that the email was generated by the OM and not his W.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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The OM's wife responded via email. She has known everything for several months wished us the best and threatened me with lawyers if any contact from me or my wife were to occur in the future. This was after: "After stewing on it for a while I sent an exposure letter to the OM's wife telling what I know and asking if she indeed knew herself and was there anything else I should know. I told her if there was ANY contact between them again she would be the first to know." I have known exposure to the other BS to go badly. Some are shocked and do want to believe that the WS that is named is actually their own spouse. Some will not believe that the evidence the BS has is evidence of an affair - more of a friendship gone wrong (!). Once or twice I have seen an OPS threaten the WS or harass the BS. However, I have never known the OPS threaten the BS with the police after the first contact, just like that. Why, if they know that the allegation is true, would they set the police on the BS if more information is produced? If they believe that the affair actually happened, they normally (reluctantly, perhaps) agree to let the BS know if anything else comes up. I suspect that the email was generated by the OM and not his W. You are very astute SC as is everyone who has responded. The OM appears to be the one whom sent the email to me...only problem is I sent 2 letters. One to the home address and one to the workplace . The OM's wife was out of town and didn't get the work place letter until today. She gave me the courtesy of a phone call this morning, she was very nice and extremely interested in the email threatening me with lawyers.
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The OM appears to be the one whom sent the email to me...only problem is I sent 2 letters. One to the home address and one to the workplace . The OM's wife was out of town and didn't get the work place letter until today. She gave me the courtesy of a phone call this morning, she was very nice and extremely interested in the email threatening me with lawyers. How very wise of you to have sent two letters, and what a good thing you did! Did OMW know about the affair? If so, did she know anything more than you? Is she interested in comparing notes? Did she give you any clues about how she felt about her own marriage?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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t was pretty miserable around the Ponderosa this weekend. My wife feels that the letter set us back, she feels I did a hit and run with the letter. Seeing as how we were working on eliminating LB's and attempting to meet each others EN's...we should have POJA'd. You did just great, lookin4thehandle! And you did the right thing by NOT POJAing the exposure to the OMW. That should not have been POJAed because POJA does not apply in the case of adultery or abuse. All that would have likely happened is your wife would have secrectly warned the OM who would have done his level best to intercept your communication. This is why it is a good idea to never forewarn a wayward about exposure. I didn't read through the other posts, but they probably told you that Plan A time is over. Plan A is for an ongoing affair and is one-sided giving. When the affair is over, it is time for Plan Recovery. Most marriages do not ever recover from an affair until they use this plan. They limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage. Harley has a very specific plan outlined in Surviving an Affair that really does work. Many of us have used this and have restored the romantic love in our marriages. Here is an outline: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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All that would have likely happened is your wife would have secrectly warned the OM who would have done his level best to intercept your communication. Mel, he actually did this, even without the forewarning! Still, lookin4 has made telephone contact with OMW now, thanks to lookin4's cleverness!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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The OM appears to be the one whom sent the email to me...only problem is I sent 2 letters. One to the home address and one to the workplace . The OM's wife was out of town and didn't get the work place letter until today. She gave me the courtesy of a phone call this morning, she was very nice and extremely interested in the email threatening me with lawyers. How very wise of you to have sent two letters, and what a good thing you did! Did OMW know about the affair? If so, did she know anything more than you? Is she interested in comparing notes? Did she give you any clues about how she felt about her own marriage? The OMW did indeed know about the A. She had everything, all the evidence. Everything was exactly as my wife had confessed, the emails and the pics. The OMW discovered the tryst and was the one to put an end to it. She wanted to know why my wife would confess to all of this if I didnt have the goods. I mentioned MB's and told her my wife felt it was impossible to begin the process without coming completely clean. The only new thing to her was the contact back in April via phone and the obvious fact that the OM intercepted the letter to their home address and sent me an email pretending to be her. I mentioned in the work place letter that I sent a 2nd letter to her home without a return address on the envelope. The home letter of course made no mention of 2 letters... We know how to contact each other and have promised to let the other know immediately if anything new developes. The OMW had to deal with the discovery of the emails and suggested strongly that I not look at them as they would be too hurtful. The OMW appears to be a strong woman and a lady in every way, she has my prayers. Though my wife confessed completely and the OMW confirms that fact, I needed to send the letters to put that final nail in the coffin lid of the A. There was no NC letter and I was left hanging (in my mind at least) with his response of "I'll see what I can do" concerning getting back in touch. Thank you everyone for the encouagement to do the right thing and putting up the good fight. My dear wife and I have other issues to deal with now, like moving on and building a lasting and fulfilling marriage. We look forward to updating on positive progress and of course seeking advice from such knowledgable members as the need will more than likely arise some time or another. Thanks...
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[/quote] I didn't read through the other posts, but they probably told you that Plan A time is over. Plan A is for an ongoing affair and is one-sided giving. When the affair is over, it is time for Plan Recovery. Most marriages do not ever recover from an affair until they use this plan. They limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage. Harley has a very specific plan outlined in Surviving an Affair that really does work. Many of us have used this and have restored the romantic love in our marriages. Here is an outline: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. [/quote] Thank you ML. We plan on following the 10 Basic Concepts to the T. We are also leaning very heavily towards the online course...a marriage is too important to not give it your best shot. Thanks again.
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Over a year later and here is the situation.
My wife (Lifetimelearner) wants a legal separation. She says I've broken something in her. I admit to having had AOs, I had such a problem with triggers and I have been defensive and deflective. I was even rude and disrespectful to Dr. Harley on the private forums. I did apologise but still I was the jerk...
I haven't had an outburst in 2 months but she says the undercurrent is there. She also says we are incompatible and she can never have sex with me again (5 months now). Our last session with Steve she had agreed to put the separation off but a few days later it's back on, she says me just being in the house is draining love units. We're not scheduled to talk to Steve until they get back from Cal.
I'm a stay at home dad and I homeschool our 13 year old son, I always have. It sure is tense around here but I will not have an AO.
I would put the obligatory info in my sig line but I don't know how...
Like I said, I homeschool so I won'tbe able to respond to posts all that rapidly and besides that I type AWFULLY slow...Advice?
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Over a year later and here is the situation.
My wife (Lifetimelearner) wants a legal separation. She says I've broken something in her. I admit to having had AOs, I had such a problem with triggers and I have been defensive and deflective. I was even rude and disrespectful to Dr. Harley on the private forums. I did apologise but still I was the jerk...
I haven't had an outburst in 2 months but she says the undercurrent is there. She also says we are incompatible and she can never have sex with me again (5 months now). Our last session with Steve she had agreed to put the separation off but a few days later it's back on, she says me just being in the house is draining love units. We're not scheduled to talk to Steve until they get back from Cal.
I'm a stay at home dad and I homeschool our 13 year old son, I always have. It sure is tense around here but I will not have an AO.
I would put the obligatory info in my sig line but I don't know how...
Like I said, I homeschool so I won'tbe able to respond to posts all that rapidly and besides that I type AWFULLY slow...Advice? L4H, Hopefully an expert will be here to help you soon to ask about ENs and UA and all the standard stuff. Are your AOs about the affair exclusively? How often do you bring up the affair? I am a trigger for my H so there is no escape for him. For me Love Busters (AOs and DJs) take my Love Bank down to zero almost instantaneously. I am hyper-sensitive. It appears your wife is in the same state. If you want to stick with her I would guess you are going to have to start at the beginning of "surviving an affair" and completely eliminate your Love Busters. Then take it one step forward at a time trying not to look back. I like the below thread about resentment and the analogy of "your resentment is a mountain". http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653107&page=1Imagine your resentment is a mountain. The size of your mountain is bigger than mine was. Yes? With me so far?
How do you make that mountain go away? It's a damn mountain, after all !
You make it "disappear" from your reality by walking away. It gets smaller with every step, but it might not seem like it is any smaller for quite awhile, because it is such a large mountain.
Eventually, you will notice, when you look behind you, the mountain appears smaller as it lowers on the horizon.
One day, you won't be able to see it.
You know it is there, but instead of choosing to walk towards it to see it again, you keep walking away.
I hope this visual helps.
Your time line will depend on how big your mountain is, and how much you walk in the opposite direction.
Of course, if your spouse piles more resentments on the mountain, it grows.
Me-41 (WW)
DH-46 (BH)
DD-7, DS-11, DD-15
Together 20 years, married 16
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I did bring up the A when I wasn't supposed to. Yes,I guess most of my AOs stemmed from my resentment and frustration over the A. I wished I had handled it differently but I didn't...
I listed affection as one of my top ENs and when it wouldn't get met I would begin to think about how easy it was for the OM, and my wife would tell me she couldn't do that with a man she wasn't bonded with and I would start thinking about the emails and long phone conversations and I would go stupid...never violent or anything just acting pathetic and very unmanly...ugh...temporarily insane is what Dr. H would call it.
Thanks for posting...I really think she's through and I'm pretty worn out too.
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I remember reading your posts to Dr. Harley. Yeah, you were pretty nasty to him! Reading the things you've written to Dr. Harley, I am not surprised that she doesn't want to be anywhere near you. You have been punishing her, instead of recovering.
Your anger and disrespect has sent your wife into withdrawal.
It will take a lot of diligent work on your part to bring her back.
What I would do: Go back and read Dr. Harley's posts to you, without arguing with him this time. Then post to him again, and do whatever he says, WITHOUT ARGUING.
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I remember reading your posts to Dr. Harley. Yeah, you were pretty nasty to him! Reading the things you've written to Dr. Harley, I am not surprised that she doesn't want to be anywhere near you. You have been punishing her, instead of recovering.
Your anger and disrespect has sent your wife into withdrawal.
It will take a lot of diligent work on your part to bring her back.
What I would do: Go back and read Dr. Harley's posts to you, without arguing with him this time. Then post to him again, and do whatever he says, WITHOUT ARGUING. You're right Prisca, I was pretty nasty. I still think things were misrepresented and that I didn't get a fair shake. For instance that particular thread when my wife started out by saying she was willing to have SF the fact and the truth of the matter is she hadn't been willing for the last 8 weeks when she posted that. I should have calmly and succinctly stated those facts. But I got sidetracked...sigh. Did you miss the part where I apologised and did you miss the part where I accepted responsibility. Did you miss the part where I mentioned a post or two ago that I haven't had an AO in over 2 months? Things were not stated the exact way they really were and instead of responding in a civil manner I got upset. My bad, I accepted responsibility for my actions then and I do now. I know for a fact that resentment on her part has played a huge role in all of this. Others would now concur... YOU have no idea how much effort I was putting into the recovery,all you have is where I lost it. One thread in over two years...
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