What I have is what Dr. Harley has told you. I tend to agree with his posts.

Right now, the damage you've caused by your disrespect and anger is the main hindrance to recovery.

I applaud you for not having an AO for 2 months. However, you still have a lot of work to do to repair the damage you've caused. It's going to take more than just an apology.

And you'll have to actually start listening to Dr. Harley and stop arguing with him. Are you willing to do that? Are you going to reread his posts to you? Are you going to post to him again?

Prisca, we have been working with Steve extensively but I'm afraid I'm the idiot who swam too far out in the deep water while everyone is warning him "that's too far, come back" now I've got cramps and I can see my life flashing before my eyes. Dang! I can't even muster up a good ole fashioned AO, too busy sputtering and spittin out water...y'all can use me as the AO poster boy who got what was coming to him.

You didn't answer Prisca's questions.

For the record, Prisca is married to a man who could say:


Do you want some help, or do you want to just surrender and sink?

You can do this:

I suspect your wife feels hopeless because you are choosing not to do it. Strong words, I know, given all the work you say you are putting in. But there is something else you are not doing, and I am wondering if we can help motivate you to do it. The problem is probably not that she is unwilling, the problem is probably not that there's something you don't know to do. The problem is probably that you are unconsciously making some excuses, and you can probably overcome this with some BLUNT help from some friends who can help you see what you are missing in your blind spots, who will talk to you seriously and sternly like a coach ordering you to get to work.

Ask me how I know.

Because of this belief, you are apparently refusing to listen to and implement Dr. Harley's advice.

You could actually implement Dr. Harley's advice even if you do think things were misrepresented and you didn't get a fair shake. You could just do it anyway. And if you did, you would probably find that your marriage recovers.


Getting the facts straight DOESN'T MATTER AND WILL NOT HELP RECOVER YOUR MARRIAGE. It's a pointless waste of time.


Does this mean you have been practicing Just Compensation? If not, I wouldn't call that accepting responsibility.


It doesn't matter. You can apologize or skip the apology; it still doesn't matter. Apparently you are too busy apologizing to actually go back and read and implement what Dr. Harley said to you.

It would be better NOT to apologize.


Actually, we have Dr. Harley saying there were "Love Busters over the past few years."

It's not that you did a lot of work for two years with one mistake in that time. The only issue is that you are not doing the work NOW.

It takes a wife time to recover from Love Busters. How much time? Usually just slightly longer than you expect it to take. And it only works if you hold a very, very steady course.

No, I will not write to Dr. Harley. We have been in phone sessions with Steve. The next call will be the 15th time we've talked...if you've heard the son you've heard the father...

I've read where Steve is the guy who can motivate the man, so we called. I like Steve a lot and I probably shouldn't have even posted in this thread again but my wife still wants a separation and I thought we had an agreement to try longer and talk to Steve when he got back from the gala event in Cali...

Just compensation for AOs? I would say; not having any more? That's where I'm at, I haven't had one in two months and counting.

We're talking amicably about splitting assets and what's best for our son right now. Even with the imminent demise of our marriage staring me in the face I haven't had an AO, thanks for the responses. Time to get the school books ready...

L4H,

I don't have access to your AO post but I presume you are ready to change. Posting here can help. Reading here helps.

It sounds like your wife's "mountain of resentment" is just as high as yours. You both need to help each other walk away from your "mountains of resentment". You have to make every effort not to pile onto her mountain with Love Busters. Post on the "Using resentment as punishment thread" maybe you will get a perspective to help you walk away from your resentment.



Relax. Stop fighting. Decide what you want (to be with your wife or not) and make every word and action focused on that objective. When you do something contrary to your decision take corrective action with your words and behavior quickly.

Do you ever go a week without bringing up the affair? You will not stop thinking about it (and neither will she) but can you get yourself to stop talking about it?

L4TH, I think a more objective look at this is in order:

LL conducted an electronic affair, complete with sexually explicit photos and likely telephonic mutual auto-eroticism. You discovered this, and bulled through her deceitful trickle-truths until you were able to achieve disclosure and contact with OMW. (As I read the history, you did NOT perform a nuclear exposure.) In spite of her treachery, you offered LL the gift of forgiveness and a possible reconciliation, working with the MB program. (This would have brought us to June 2011, yes?)

So, a year later, you (and LL, and we) learn that you were NOT Superman, and were flawed to the extent that your resentment broke through via AOs on occasion. On that basis, "poor little LL" has decided to ask (demand?) a separation. Really? So she planted the minefield, pushed you out into it, and now is pissed off that you triggered one, blowing a hole in her flower garden.

Here's what I would recommend: Prepare for the separation, under your terms and conditions. Those Ts&Cs would be to perform the nuclear exposure that you declined to enact last year, as a vehicle to your announcement that the two of you are terminating your marriage due to the lingering effects of LL's affair with OM. There is no way that LL should effect an exit from your marriage with her ability intact to broadcast the lie that the two of you would no longer be together because of your anger issues.

Boy, I hope LL is still reading here......

We had 14 sessions with Steve. Never used our 15th. From my experience, I'd encourage you to use both resources.

Dr. Harley's already given you some direction. I'm just curious why you won't go reread the hard work he put into posting to you. Unless you're tape recording Steve, it doesn't form a permanent record that you can review the same way Dr. Harley's posts do.

The thing about 14 sessions is, if you've been going that long, you probably need all the motivation you can get: Steve, Dr. Harley, this forum, daily radio show, every book you can get your hands on...

It's not so much about knowledge as it is motivation. Properly motivated, I think there's still a good chance you can save your marriage. Plenty of people have been where you are and have made it happen.

That said, I really don't think you stand much of a chance until you can reread through that thread with Dr. Harley without getting emotional. You need to hear all of that information rationally, not emotionally, whether it be from Steve or us or Dr. Harley.

If you decide you don't want to put forth the effort to read that thread calmly, I think you are sunk by your choice.


The thing about agreements is that people can change their mind.

This was one of the hardest things for me about Marriage Builders.

Steve's written an article about this, actually:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8502_fft.html

And plenty of people have brought their marriages back from that.


That's good, but more than that will be needed. Have you guys been following the policy of undivided attention for the last two months?

If this poster follows your reasoning, and justifies his love busters, he'll end up with no marriage. The anger is surely justified, but that does not mean that holding onto it is a good idea.

This sounds like some kind of strategy to get the FWW to "man up" and do the hard work necessary for recovery. But that doesn't follow Dr. Harley's analysis of this marriage at all. The wife has been doing the work. She is now not willing to, because her husband hasn't followed through.

He has made a good start in eliminating angry outbursts, and if he will start following the rules of recovery, he probably stands the best chance possible of turning this situation around.

Emphasizing his resentment won't help that. Emphasizing his failure to follow Dr. Harley's advice might help, though.

Your wife has done everything you've asked, right? You asked for affection, she gave it to you, that turned out to not be your number one need; you asked for SF, she gave it to you, but she didn't feel passionate about it, and Dr. Harley said it was up to you to generate that passion.

Is that about the sum of it?

That's a common problem lots of husbands face -- but you can't get through it by blaming her.

Did you do what Dr. Harley told you to do to solve these problems? What did he tell you to do?

What have you done for your wife since your last AO? Right now, her emotions are telling her that you are too dangerous to be around. What are you doing to change that?

Are we reading the same account? Is there a page (or several) that is not in my edition of this drama?

She says I've broken something in her. I admit to having had AOs...I haven't had an outburst in 2 months but she says the undercurrent is there. She also says we are incompatible and she can never have sex with me again (5 months now). Our last session with Steve she had agreed to put the separation off but a few days later it's back on, she says me just being in the house is draining love units

Exactly WHERE in the story is evidence of:

The wife has been doing the work. She is now not willing to, because her husband hasn't followed through.

I guess my overriding problem is not being an unconstrained apologist for the**edit**anti-marriage actions of females related on this board. (BTW: my sword of admonishment swings toward similar MALE actions as well, but I usually take less...dung...for that!)

Are we also going to ignore that fact that the burden of repairing the affair-occasioned damage to the marriage is the task of the FWS??? THE BS HASN'T BEEN DOING THE WORK? REALLY?

Of course, if LL wants to chime in with her version of events, I would suppose she would get fair treatment. BUT SHE IS NOT DOING SO! She doesn't even care enough about the current and future state of her marriage to ask us for help!!!

And why the request for a "legal separation" versus a divorce? I would submit that "legal separation" is a code-word for "license to prowl" with a path home if things don't pan out.

Fearless NG prediction: WW LL has either re-established contact with POSOM, or set her sights on OM2, and is actively gaslighting our poster by blaming her disconnection on his AOs of TWO MONTHS AGO!!!

No. She has not done what I asked concerning affection. She couldn't bring herself to touch my shoulder or nudge my foot or give me a wink. She would ask that I not touch her for several days after SF because she felt I wanted something from her.

I gave up and said that affection was not a need anymore. Probably a mistake. Dr. Haarley speaks of fake it till you make it but she's not having any of that.

Yes, there is a page missing. It is on Dr. Harley's private forum. I don't think we should contradict what Dr. H is saying there. You can read several quotes from the good Dr. on this thread, now.


I see. Well, I am an unconstraint apologist for Dr. Harley's methods of rebuilding marriages. Which is, after all, why we are here, or so I thought.

But then, it seems very hard to get you to check your facts and opinions with Dr. Harley for accuracy, even though there's not really a huge barrier to doing that, what with free radio shows, articles, books, and the fact you can write him yourself on the show.

For example, you are a **edit**apologist for anger, which Dr. Harley classifies as insanity and pretty much adamantly stands against. Anger may be understandable in some situations. But like an affair, there may be reasons, but there are no excuses.

This man's poor wife has endured months of his abuse in an attempt to reconcile with him.


But Dr. Harley doesn't say that. In general, he tends to be much harder on husbands, whether they are betrayed or wayward, placing a huge burden on them, fair or not, because that's what works.

And he has said the opposite in this specific case, NG. Does it matter what Dr. Harley said about this, or is this just a place for us to exchange our own opinions?


Yep. Dr. Harley told him what to do in order to make it possible for his wife to passionately make love to him. It sounds like he started only two months ago, and at this point he's got far more ground to make up thanks to the extra months of damage he piled on top of the damage in their marriage.


I know you see this as a strike against her, but this is just the natural outcome of what has happened, as their marriage has languished in pain and abuse instead of recovery. Dr. Harley would absolutely support her in choosing to separate if her husband neglects and abuses her. That is his position in all marriages, and it doesn't change just because she was wayward.

Dr. Harley said the burden was on you to restore the passion she felt.

I have had the same problem in my marriage. Affection is my number one emotional need. My wife meets it when she feels bonded to me. When I torpedo those feelings with love busters, that kind of behavior disappears for weeks. It only comes back when I quit blaming her for the problem and start focusing on healthy marital behavior and what I can do. And then I have to stay the course for quite awhile before things get back to normal.

This is reality in a marriage where the love busters have continued.

Dr. Harley does NOT advocate "Fake it till you make it while your spouse love busts."

Markos, my only required response is to point you toward L4TH's answer to you.

Dr. Harley told you what to do about that. Did you do it?

Thank you, Prisca!

Let's keep the advice & suggestions on this thread based on Dr Harley's concepts & principles!!