Please read this.
Traveling Jobs

Kerala- I'm pretty sure H has never texted her in a casual/friendly way. I'll ask him for sure when I get home from work.

Indie- I like your friend's technique. And the reason why I wouldn't do the 'eff off' approach is b/c of what you said regarding smelling blood... if that is indeed her plan. I also think it's a boundry issue- she may in fact be clueless.

Thinking about all this made me realize...even if I wanted to text her right now and tell her to stop, I can't b/c I erased the number. If it happens again, we'll deal with it. And as far as H is concerned, He's not seeing me be passive. This is the most worked up I've gotten about anything like this-ever, so he knows it's a big deal to me (and our marriage).

Brainhurts- I have seen that thread, looked it over again. I'm not sure exactly how/if it applys directly to me, since this isn't an A and he hasn't cheated?

I will talk with my H about what reply will be texted back if it ever happens again. And you're right NG, if he isn't on board, it would be worrisome.

Do either of your jobs have you spend nights apart?

Yes...he's a commercial pilot. Yes, Brainhurts in his job he's gone for a few nights at a time usually. I don't like it, and he knows I don't like it. Cargo pilots are gone for 1-2 weeks at a time, and I'm totally not down with that length of time. He did apply for a medical rescue-flight job, which would mean he's home every night, but he interviewed and didn't get the job b/c he didn't have enough flight time.

I'm not really in a position to say, "Quit your hobbies....Quit your job!!!" He just decided he actually wants to be married to me... To be honest, I don't know what to do about his job.

In my job I will be working a few 24hr shifts/month, but if no one is dying or giving birth then I'm sleeping. And I'm surrounded by 99.9% women.

You've heard what Dr. Harley says about nights apart, correct? Especially if there's been an affair.

Can you travel with him when he flies out of town? Dr. Harley has counseled many pilots and flight attendants and if they don't find another job he recommends for the wife or husband to go with the other. Is this a possibility?

Here's a good clip.
Radio clip on pilots
Segment #2

He doesn't have to make any decisions today. You, as a repentant wayward are paying JC while he warms up to the decision of being a full MBer all the way.


That doesn't mean you can't spell out what that future decision would need to consist of. Full MB. You, Doro, as someone who understands MB knows that with any of the ingredients missing long term, the marriage is doomed. You know what kind of marriage you will need to see from him eventually. But you also understand that short term sacrifice and encouragement are OK. Short term, you won't build up too much resentment.

Say the next time he wants to go have RC alone. Don't create a moody atmosphere, no sadness or tears. Just say calmly: "how would you feel if we sat down and POJAd it first? We might come up with something good."

If he's insistent say: "I can only ask you not to go because its upsetting. What you do is up to you. I'd really like to POJA it, though"

If he goes, he goes. Don't punish him with lovebusters but instead pick it up again later "we have a problem. Your going away made me very unhappy. Can we POJA what we would do for your next RC trip?"

That's not to say you don't praise his good efforts, too of course.

Also if he gets frustrated and says 'fine! I won't go!' Make it clear you aren't dropping it there because his feelings are important to you and try to find something else he would enjoy that is POJAd

BH, yes I've heard what Dr. Harley says about nights apart. I travel with him sometimes, but lately I can't b/c of my work schedule. And I can't quit my job b/c I pretty much support us.

He's thought about doing something else for work, but he can't really come up with anything else he wants to do-not to mention all the money and training that has gone into the flying. And I think he feels pressure also for later on- he knows I don't want to work full time forever, especially if we have kids, which then leaves him.

I'll listen to the radio clip when I get home from work, the connection is too slow here.

Indie- I'll do that the next time the RC issues come up. It's a weird situation, b/c I know he does want to spend time with me. He just wants to spend it doing all those activities. It doesn't help matters that I'm having surgery again, and will be on crutches for another 6 weeks....and then more recovery time after that.

He asked me if I wanted to go climbing this weekend...one last hoorah before I have surgery. a little 10 mile roundtrip hike with some high elevation alpine climbing. With a broken leg. And he was serious.

I did tell him today we needed to sit down and learn how to do the POJA thing...regarding getting the dog washed (thought that would be a good place to start). I told him I didn't think him telling me it was a stupid idea to get her a bath because she's just going to lay in the dirt and get dirty was the proper way about it. Anywho...we'll see how that turns out.

Doro,

Please don't ask your H about the bacon girl texts. First, please take a look at your online phone records and see how many texts there have been between your H and bacon girl.

I had not clue of my H's affair until OW sent an innocuous sounding text in the middle of the night from a different time zone. Three days later, I got the phone bill and records and saw nearly 100 texts and many, many more phone calls. Turns out the affair had been going on for more than 6 months.

Just check this out before talking to him.

AM

1. he was joking
2. he doesn't believe your injury has the effect you say it does
3. he resents the heck out of you
4. he's a moron

What do you think?

I second this. Check your Intel first.

DoroM, your H posted here for a very brief time in Feb I believe. Why did he stop? (Sorry if you addressed this earlier in your thread.)

I promised you a reply to your note to me of 24 August of more content than I could generate immediately.

Back when I was working, the company I worked for had a policy that fairly regularly (maybe not strictly annually, but close) each professional employee would update and discuss with his management team his Career Plan. This document, like any similar "plan" returned value in direct relation to the effort invested in its fabrication. The best managers would not accept a shoddy, thoughtless submission, but would use the product as a tool to inform the "owner" of steps to be taken to achieve a desired result.

For example, suppose an engineer wanted to, in five years, be acting as a department manager. His current manager would direct him to courses he might want to take, "broadening" assignments he should consider pursuing, and possibly "semi-managerial" leadership positions he should press for in the near future (next two years) so that the bases would be in place for a possible manager posting in the targeted five year window. Understood, of course, was the need to succeed (if not outright excel!) in each of those elements.

There were ten-year, and farther, goals expected as well, and they had to form a reliable "path".

Would I be correct in my inference that you and FBH have never jointly discussed, much less settled on, a plan for your marriage? And even if you had a tenuous grasp of your joint expectations, those "fuzzy" guidelines have never been rigorously inspected for obsolescence and appropriately refurbished as life's lessons have changed you?

In my mind, we were perfect for each other because we both could be super independent and do whatever we wanted and be fine.

I need to yield to the experts here and ask if in the "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders" continuum there may be room between "B" and "R" for "Absentee Landlords". Yeah, the two of you "bought" okay, (wedding, etc) but it seems you didn't really expect to "Live" in your purchase. At least your words give us that.

And you portray his expectation for what he wants from you:

he's more interested in the sweating/straining part....the better shape I am in, the more places we can go (assuming I want to go all these places), and harder stuff we can do. RC is his #1 EN. He says he would rather hang out with me than his friends...but for him to really enjoy himself (b/c I'm not enough), I need to be faster and better so he can be challenged. He would not necessarily rather hang out with me if it meant sitting on the couch talking....

It is not for any of us out here to judge the quality of the uses he has planned for his marital partner. It is however necessary for you to understand what YOUR current and projected desired uses of your "spousal resource" are TODAY! (Remember, update the career plan annually!) Do you want to spend large chunks of time "ice climbing" (or marathoning, whatever) this year? Next year? in five years? Does he want those things?

I'm going to suspend right now, only because I can't reliably know what your reaction is to this line of investigation. (Nodding? Cursing at me? Laughing?)

Was this helpful? Shall we continue?

Was away for most of the weekend, and couldn't reply. Having surgery on my leg again tomorrow, so I'll come back when the drugs wear off and I am able to make sense.

NG, I'll reply to you as soon as I am lucid!

NG, I'll reply to you as soon as I am lucid!

Well, if lucidity has not returned YET, I need to know what drugs you were given!

Ha! I should'e said, "will reply when I'm lucid and feeling good enough to post". Surgery went well, and now that I'm feeling better I'm starting to get annoyed at the cast and crutches again. It's very bad dejavu.

Yes, I would say that you're correct in the fact that we didn't really have a plan...I think we both had a tenuous grasp of a plan. Most likely different plans in both of our heads. And yes, my plan (however fuzzy it was in my head) 3 years ago is different than it is now. To be honest, he doesn't really like to plan ahead- so I'm not sure how much of a plan he has except to go outside and play.

It is not for any of us out here to judge the quality of the uses he has planned for his marital partner. It is however necessary for you to understand what YOUR current and projected desired uses of your "spousal resource" are TODAY! (Remember, update the career plan annually!) Do you want to spend large chunks of time "ice climbing" (or marathoning, whatever) this year? Next year? in five years? Does he want those things?

Yes, he wants those things. I'm not say I would say "large" chunks, but I would like to spend some time. I would always like to stay active and stay active in the outdoors. But I'm assuming that my willingness and (enjoyment) of doing increasingly risky things are going to decrease as I get older, as especially as I have kids.

We talked with Steve on friday. Steve has been focusing on this 'recreation' stuff for the past few sessions and how my H needs to behave/react if he actually wants me to continue to do stuff with him. Going to try to make another appointment this week.

I'm not sure I answered your questions appropriately?

Well...it certainly wasn't #1....because I got a lot more requests for different activities in the days following. It's probably a mix of #2 & #4, with maybe a tidge of #3. But this behavior isn't new from A's, so the resentment shouldn't have too much to do with this.

We settled on going camping, and a short hike and I belayed him while HE climbed. It was actually a really nice time, and I'm glad we went- especially since I'm now stuck on the couch.

I'm not entirely sure why he stopped. He's not much of an 'internety-forum' type of person. I think he may have originally stopped b/c he felt like everyone was telling him to not make up his mind right then and he was angry.

When I've asked him recently to post, he doesn't want to- says that if he's going to get advice, it's going to be from his friends that he knows in real life. I would like him to be more involved. I know he used to read my thread, but I don't think he has in a long time, so I need to ask him to read it so we can discuss all the stuff, if he's not going to post by himself.

When I've asked him recently to post, he doesn't want to- says that if he's going to get advice, it's going to be from his friends that he knows in real life.

Okay, that's one way to solicit advice and assistance.

Alternatively, it's providential that when you realized your leg was not correctly healing that you availed yourself of the skills of experts in that arena over the opinions of fellow rock-climbers.

I did look at the phone bills online. There was nothing on the history except for what he told me about/I saw on his actual phone.

I know he felt like "wtf, I haven't done anything and you're accusing me..." (I wasn't accusing...just asking about stuff).

The girl did txt him once more, but it wasn't really out of line, b/c he took time off work for my surgery, and wasn't going on the trip. Generally, if someone calls in, they'll let the other pilot know they're not going to be there, but he couldn't let her know b/c the phone number was erased, so she did text 'are you sick? Now I have to fly with so and so! ugh!"

So I did the indie method, and txted back saying "who is this? and it was me and that I had his phone b/c mine wasn't working and that he took time off from work for my surgery and that's why he wasn't at work. She explained who she was/why she was txting and told me she hoped everything went well with my surgery.

We did have a long conversation about all this. He pretty much thinks I'm overreacting. And he said things like, "I'm complying with what YOU want, why are you still making a big deal about it?" and I replied that it was all about the attitude and it wasn't supposed to just be what I wanted...and that he needed to see that it was an issue too.

He made a low dig at me when I was saying something to the effect of 'how important this is, and how these thing start, etc', and he replies, "well you would have more experience with that than me." And I'm like, "yeah...I do- so that's how".

Anyways, we brought it up with Steve. (who basically just told us that it is important, and we need to come up with reply together if it happens again). The month is over, so the chances that they ever work together again are slim to none. He's working with a guy this month, and then he got a new job with a different airline that he'll probably start in a few months. A different airline with flight attendants....

I'm not sure if I brought this up in a previous post, b/c I can't remember when exactly this conversation happened, but during one of our conversations recently, it was like anything I didn't like about our relationship/his actions/etc, was met with a, "Well, maybe we shouldn't be together then" or "You knew what I Was like when you married me".

I've explained that I've changed A LOT since he married me...taking the bad parts out that are affecting our marriage negatively, but it seems when he's faced with anything to change he pulls the "you knew this about me when you married me...maybe we shouldn't be together."

I know, right? I won't even get into what I wanted to say in return. I kept my mouth shut. It was probably bordering on DJ.....