Well this is my first post and I dont really know where to begin. A brief background I suppose. Im 42 my partner is 47 and we've been together for 2 years. We both have children from previous marriages but none of them live with us.We moved in together about a year ago and the last 6 months things have been going from bad to worse. Almost constant fighting.
Her issues are she says Im a gonna man who never does anything or commits to anything. I gave up smoking and then started again. She also says I raise my voice too much which I agree with but usually only when weve been fighting and shes brought me to that point by not listening to me or cutting me off when Im trying to say something.
My problems are the way she gets very moody especially around her period time. I am convinced shes going through peri menopause but she wont admit to it and refuses to get checked out by her doctor.
She will have a go at me for the most ridiculous things that I say to her are petty crap. Or blame me for things beyond my control. Once we were going out and I got a blocked call. I answered and they hung up. She was convinced it was my eldest daughter pranking me and we had a massive fight where she tried to get out of the car in the middle of nowhere and walk off. I managed to keep her in the car but it wrecked the night. I tried to tell her that no matter who it was that called its beyond my control and why start a fight over it, but she wouldnt listen.
We have arguments like that all the time.She also gets very nasty calling me names like Im a loser and all sorts of verbal abuse but then when we make up she says she doesnt mean it and says these things because shes angry.

It came to a head about 2 weeks ago and after not sleeping in our bed for a week she sent me a text saying it was over, she has had enough and just wanted to be single again and start going out with some new girlfriends she met when doing a course at TAFE. I spoke to her told her how much I love her and was willing to do whatever it takes to fix things and she eventually said she just needs time. Shes back sleeping in our bed but we havent had sex for around 3 weeks. (We had a good sex life and neither of us ever complained about that)
She said she doesnt want me kissing her or cuddling her but after a couple of days she came home from work and asked me where her kiss was. Even though she says she doesnt want that she has kissed me and cuddled me and often cuddles me at night and in bed. But then says she doesnt want to do that. She also lets me massage her and last night it led to me masturbating her and when we were finished she cracked it saying I forced her and it was like rape, even though she enjoyed it and orgasimed 3 times or so. She was so angry about it. In the morning I cuddled up to her and she cuddled me back, probably her way of admitting she was wrong. She kissed me good bye and I went to work.
She went out last Friday night to a friends house and didnt get home until 3am Shes going out tomorrow night with a girlfriend to see some band and she doesnt even really like going to pubs and clubs. I said to her that I might also go out with a mate who is going for drnks at a pub and she cracked it saying "Well if thats the new you who wants to start going out drinking and picking up woman then go for it.Isnt that what guys do when they are estranged from their partners?"
I reminded her that she was the one estranged not me and that I want her not some other woman. It seems its okay for her to go out but if I do she cracks it and gets very jealous but would never admit she is.

Its killing me that shes going out tomorrow night. Not because I dont trust her, because I do and I know she wouldn't cheat on me. Whenever she goes out men look perve and try to hit on her. They've done it even when she's with me.
I said to her that the guy of her dreams could talk to her at the club, maybe just give her his phone number and she keeps it then thinks its not working where I am so dumps me and gives this guy a call. I know if that happens it wasn't meant to be but it still doesn't make me feel any better and I think by going out shes just tempting fate.
It also worrys me that the fact she wants to start going out means she's had enough of me as she would never go out without me in the past. Sometimes I think that maybe it is over for her but she doesn't want to hurt me so is letting me down gently and slowly. Other times I think its not over for her and shes doing all this to teach me a lesson and finally get me to do the things she wants.
She originally told me she didn't love me, that changed a few days later to she loves me but is not in love with me. Then yesterday she said "I am in love with you just not as much as I used to be" Same with the kissing and cuddling, at first she doesn't want any of it then that changes and she wants to kiss me and cuddle me and says she enjoys it and she missed doing it with me.

I just wish she wasnt going out tomorrow night as I worry its going to be detrimental to us either by a guy hitting onto her (And I know that the chances of that are slim, but she is very good looking and gets hit on all the time) Or i worry that she will just start going out more and more and want that over me.
Im trying to give her space but where still doing things together going out to the movies or for dinner and she holds my hand or puts her arm around me, then says were not together and she just needs time and not to pressure her.

So what should I do? Just give her that time and dont pressure her I guess. Sorry this post is a bit of a ramble just needed to get a lot off my chest

Thanks for listening.

Just to add one of her gripes is that Im not the man she fell in love with anymore. When we fight She says I have no confidence and have become a sooky lala and thats not attractive to a woman. I understand this but shes the one who has made me like this. She calls me names tells me Im a loser, tells me shes not attracted to me as much because I wear the same old boring clothes and take no pride in myself. Told me I had put on some weight. (When I met her I was around 112 kgs and now im 95 kgs so did lose a lot of weight in the 2 years but I had put on a few kgs lately)
But then I brought some new clothes and tried them on for her and she grinned this silly grin she does that tells me she thinks I look really hot.
Ive been exercising and this morning she had hold of my arms and said ooohh muscles and noticed that I had lost fat from my arms and could feel my biceps. But as I said when were fighting she turns nasty. I want to be a real man for her and stop being so sooky but not sure how to.
She has also said when were fighting, I can get just about any man I want, and she has a few guys that she knew before me text her from time to time asking her out and stuff like that, She tells them she's still with me but they text again a few months later. Then when shes not angry with me says I should have confidence knowing that she chose me over all these other guys that are trying to get her etc.
I'm afffectionate, loving, and not lazy, I do a lot of house work, cook meals, I basically do a lot for her and she's admitted that I do.
And when we go away together we get along great and can go out for dinner and talk for hours.
So I really dont know where Im going wrong here.

Welcome to MB, Kenny.

I don't think you are married to this woman, are you?

Welcome to MB.

Are you married?

No were not married. We did talk about it and she always wanted us to get married. But that was back when things were better.

Hi Kenny, I'm fairly new to MB, but I have read some of the articles here. There a few on problems associated with living together before marriage that might give you some insight.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025b_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5036_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5036b_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5036c_qa.html

Also, I'm currently reading a fascinating book by Dr. Harley, "Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders" that would probably help you understand the dynamics of your relationship better.

Hi Kenny, welcome to Marriage Builders. Living together is very different from marriage. These relationships are fraught with abuse and disrespect and have a very low success rate.

Check out this article: Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse

here

Ok so it seems our odds arent good. I just cant really see the difference between living together and being married. We moved in together because we wanted to share our lives and get married. I think if we had got married first then moved in together things might be the same. We went to a counselling session and she told my wife that a lot of changes need to be made when you move in together.
But either way I dont want to just give up on us. There are some things she wanted me to change and I am, for me and for us. These were

1. Give up smoking, although she smokes she has 5 a day. I smoked 20-30 a day and it cost me $400 a month. So I agreed with her and finally did.
2. Take more pride in what I wear. I was wearing the same old clothes all the time and she said it was boring. I did start buying new clothes and she loved me in them.
3. Take more care of my health. Before I met her I was 130 kgs. I had lapband surgery and lost 35 kgs. Thats how I managed to get her in the first place. But she says I often still eat junk and should have lost more weight by now. Ive started to eat healthier and am exercising and so far have lost another 5 kgs. She met me when I was 110 kgs so shes not being shallow, she just wants me to be healthy and she knows if I lose more weight will have more confidence.
3. The biggest one of all is to be a more confident man. She says she doesnt like it when Im all sooky and worried about whos going to steal her off me and getting jealous if guys crack onto her or perve at her. But I must admit shes also the jealous type just too stubborn to admit it.
She wants me to be a confident person and walk proud and tall as she is attracted to that in a man.
4. Stop raising my voice which I tend to do without realising. I can be very abrupt but I don't mean to be and would stop it if I knew how too.

So Im going to at least make an effort to do all of this. She went out last Friday and is going out again tonight to see a band with a girlfriend. Shes not the type to usually go out and I think shes doing this to see if the grass is greener and she would rather be single and start going out a lot or stay with me. We do go out together and do things so its not like shes bored she said she enjoys the time we have together when were not fighting.
Then part of me thinks this is her way of trying to teach me a lesson and make me realise that I need to take drastic meausures and start to change for us or I will lose her. She realises that doing this is getting the results she wants so is continuing to do this. She cuddled me last night and this morning in bed then cracked it later when I asked her for a cuddle and turned all nasty and bitchy. Then she left to go to the shops and gave me a kiss and a hug.
So any tips for "Giving her space" so to speak.

Oh and thanks for the links, I will read them.

Here are some more good reads. Tell us what you think.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders
Choosing the Right one to Marry#1
Choosing the Right one to Marry #2
Living Together Before Marriage #1

Also please listen to these clips.
Radio clip on living together before marriage
Radio clip on living together before marriage
Segment #2
Segment #3

Ok well Im reading all of those links and learning. But I think we sort of do a lot of that now anyway. The policy of joint agreement is soemthing we do for the most part. But to give an example I brew my own beer. She enjoyed it at first and would get involved and we would go to micro breweries on the weekend to try their beers. But then she had enough said thats all I talk about, said I drink too much even though I only have 1-2 beers a night if that. She said I brew too much and I agreed to only brew once a month but she still thinks thats too much. One day we went to get Chinese for dinner and I said I was going over to the bottlo to get a couple of beers. She started on em saying what for when you have beer at home to drink. I told her I wanted to try something different and was only going to buy a couple for us to have with dinner not a whole carton but she cracked it and we had a big fight over it.
She tends to make a big deal out of little petty things all the time and it causes a big fight between us.Shes very dominating always wants her own way and gets very stubborn and nasty when she doesn't. She has often said to me "Why do you love me if Im such a nasty [censored]"?
I still don't know what to do in the short term and what to do in the long term to try and get her back. She wont wear her ring anymore that she always wore like an engagement ring. Says shes single and were not together but still cuddles me at night, Holds my hand or arm around me when we go out and still does things with me and we make plans as if we were a couple.
i told her that if she goes out tonight Im going to a mates house and going out for drinks with him and his cousin. She cracked it with me saying well if you want to start being a person who goes to the pub and gets drunk all the time then do it. She then says maybe you can pick up some hot chick, thats what guys who are estranged from their partners do isnt it? So she is still very jealous and thinks if I go out Ill meet someone else but in the mean time I have to sit at home while she goes out tonight.
I do trust her but it kills me knowing shes going out and sees us as single. She did say before when a guy tried talking to her she would fob him off because she was with me but now if he did she would probably talk to him. She said she wouldnt go home with him or kiss him etc but that still killed me to hear that.
Anyway Im still not sure what my best plan of attack is in the short term so would appreciate some advice?

Are you engaged?

No were not engaged. Just living together.

Did you read the Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders thread?

Yes I did. But I still dont understand the point. Okay so we dont have much chance of lasting if we get married. So should I just give up now and move on??
What happens if we never get married and just live as defacto?
I underatnd that we dont have much hope as weve lived together before getting married. So maybe for now we dont bother getting married, but what can I do in the mean time? I dont want to just say oh well we lived together so were doomed and can never get married or will end up divorcing anyway.

I think the two of you need to get your own places. You can still date to determine whether or not you want to be together in marriage. If your relationship stays together, you can choose to marry and live together after that.

I hate to be a downer, but it sounds to me like she's dating now, anyway. At minimum, she is acting like a single person - as well she should be. She IS a single person. Married woman don't (or at least shouldn't) go out partying on the weekends without their husband. Single girls, however, are certainly free to do that.

I know shes not dating. She only went out last Friday to a friends house and tonight to see a band. i will give her credit there she has very good morals and is dead against cheating. Shes told me she wants this to work but just needs space. If she was seeing someone else Im sure she would have said its over no chance to reconcile and left it at that. the fact that she can still sleep in our bed and be affectionate to me and still wants to do things with me is what confirms that. If she was dating she would probably not want a bar of me and do nothing with me.

Are you 100% sure?

We've seen very moral people who've had affairs on these boards.

She's acting like a freeloader because she's single.

Kenny, the fact remains that she is putting herself 'in circulation' by going out without you. She is a single woman, out on the town with girlfriends. There is no ring on her hand to signal her unavailability - because she's available.

If she met a guy and became interested in him it wouldn't be cheating - she's not married. She's dating you.

Well not 100% sure obviously as I would have to follow her to know that for sure. But this all only happened 2 weeks ago and although she has had a few guys always after her and text her every now and again they live interstate. She has only been out twice isnt on Facebook or anything like that so I dont know where she would have found someone anyway. Its true she could have justs aid she was going out with her Gf tonight and is really on a date, but her actions dont show this. She kissed me goodbye, she cuddled me this morning in bed and let me spoon her and said it was nice. I just think if she was seeing soemone else she wouldnt want anything to do with me like my ex did when she cheated on me.