When did you do this? And how? You weren't expressing those sentiments yesterday.

Yes, you do blame her. You just told us you needed to forgive her. You blame her for your 1st affair and you blame her for not conducting her affair according to your standards.

I would focus on your side of the street Dave. Stop setting her up in situations where she is doomed to fail.

Dave, here is the problem. You are still not honest. You contradict yourself with every new post. You say you don't blame her just after you tell us you need to forgive her. You tell us you have renounced swinging when just yesterday you were extolling its virtues and even said the problem was - not swinging - but that it happened at the wrong place and the wrong time.

Telling us what you think we want to hear is not going to get you anywhere. We want to help you, but you have to first get honest.

Help us help you. We can't help you if you keep up the bullsh**. Its not even good bs.

You need to become a better bullsh** artist or get honest if you want to make it around here.

When I said forgive her maybe that is the wrong term, I was just asking if I shod say something to her when she said what she did to me that is all

Mel, I am not blaming her at all, maybe forgive is the wrong word see above. I am asking for help n advice on how to move forward how I can show her what she means to me and help her to drop her defences n negativity to see a future

I don't see any "renouncing" or acceptance of blame in your first post YESTERDAY. Here is what you said yesterday about swinging:


And here you blame her - just yesterday:


So see, what you say doesn't line up with what you said yesterday.

Well, I have told you this already. You move forward by taking responsibility for this whole debacle and renouncing - SINCERELY - your adulterous lifestyle. All I have seen here is a whole lot of sweeping under the rug and no recognition of what you did wrong. Admit that you dragged her into swinging as a way for you to continue adultery.

If you tap dance with her the way you have with us, then she shouldn't trust anything you say or do. The things you say are not consistent or believable.

Your wife was a loyal, brave fearless and loving woman when she won you back from the A, wasn't she Dave?

She MAY. MAY be able to feel that way about you again if you listen up quickly and act faster.

She is going to feel nothing for you right now for three reasons. If you can undo those Three walls, you have a shot.

1) The abuse you have heaped on her in making her perform with strangers is pretty serious and (trust me) she actively resents you for it. And so she should.

2) The snake you handed her over to is a PRO at brainwashing. She was being told by you to swing, and being brainwashed by him. The poor lady didn't stand a chance in a double trap like that. (I will bet a million bucks that he told her if she were his, he'd never let anyone else touch her. Even though he's a swinger he will have told this lie with a straight face.)

3) She doesn't believe you when you pledge to be exclusive forever. We don't either.

As far as the second 'brainwashing' problem goes, women are programmed to be monogamous. Having sex with more than one man forces the woman's heart to 'choose' one of the partners after a certain time.

She is in love with him and not with you because of the trap you put her in. You can win her around and I would do that by addressing your first problem. She needs apologies and offer of amends.

I would apologise for the following:

Your affair
Blaming her for your affair
Asking her to 'move on' and sweep the affair under the rug
Calling her closeminded instead of listening to her concerns like a caring husband
Forcing her into the swinging scene
Allowing other men to abuse her without protecting her
Not protecting her from being manipulated by a snake OM when she was heartbroken by the affair
For manipulating her when she was heartbroken by the affair so you could sleep with OW.

Of course words are meaningless without actions.

To make sure she knows you are sincere, I would offer to take a polygraph so she can ask any questions she wants about your As.

I would also tell her that you are willing to have a post nup drafted up guaranteeing her everything if you ever have another infidelity.

You have spent a long time with your pants around your ankles while your marriage drifted down river, so you have a lot of work to make up for in swimming after it. I'm sure it was 'excellent fun' before the effects on your wife began to hurt you - but its rather heartbreaking long term, isn't it?

That's how your wife has felt the WHOLE time since the A.

Of course there is the chance, that before your first A you were loyal, brave fearless and loving too, Dave.

Maybe you want to be that man again. The man who would kill any man who approached his wife in lustful harm.

Your call.

thank you for what you have written and i do fully understand what you are saying, taking a polygraph in the UK is not very easy at all, am not sure what the law is like in the uk post nup, and yes this is heartbreaking

i do want to be that man again who would kill any man who approached my wife in any way shape or form

Who needs porn when you have the real live thing going on at home with your wife and buddy? Swinging and porn...same thing except one is live.

You treated your wife like a porn star and now she feels guilty because she was not strong enough to stand up to the man who was supposed to protect her. Her husband.

At least the OM took the seedy observer out of the equation.

You are surprised that she did not remain loyal to you and your rules?

pokerface you seem to have little understand of what swinging actually is and what goes on, whilst i am not condoning it now you have a picture that is very different from the reality

What did she do to you?

bliss, he means "when she said what she SAID" to me.

It's an English thing. You wouldn't understand.

Taking polygraph is easy enough in the UK. Google "polygraph testers UK" and find one in your area.

A recent case between a divorcing couple made post-nups legal in the UK. As long as both parties entered the agreement without pressure, and as long as all assets were declared and none hidden, a court will honour a couple's wishes for their assets. (A post-nup can never apply to child custody issues, which must always be decided by a court in the interests of the children, during divorce.)

Again, google "post-nuptual agreements UK law" and you'll see for yourself.

You people need to learn to talk regular-like.

That is wonderful news, Dave. The first step is an honourable goal.

But we are going to hold you to it with proof, you understand.

Because your resentful, hurt wife will need proof. Her feelings have been burned away by abuse and she will need solid facts to base her trust upon.

The BWs on this forum know exactly how hurt she is and exactly how vulnerable and desperate she was when she agreed to swing.

So we are your best insiders as to her heart and head. And I'm telling you, she'll need to see proof.

Being in the UK is no problem re taking a polygraph. I am a fellow Brit and I live in Liverpool. A simple google search turned up a reputable accredited firm in Manchester just an hour away when I needed to set one up. Even if you can't find one in your neck of the woods, take a day trip to Manchester with the missus. You can take her to the curry mile afterwards for a date.

Even if the only Polygraphs available were in the US, you should be willing to book a trip if that's what its going to take.

As for the post nup, call a lawyer and find out the info you need.

You have done MAMMOTH harm to your marriage and it's on you to get off your backside and sort it.

Luckily you are in the exact right boot camp for that. MB shapes us into marriage warriors.

Are you saying that sharing your wife with another man and watching is not like porn? Because everyone agrees?

Dave I told you that us BWs were your best resource in understanding your wife's mind.

Pokerface has just given you a GOLDEN insight and your foolsih defensiveness is preventing you from seeing it.



He was alone with her. He made it romantic. He was filling her lovebank while you were making her the extra in your sexual escapades.

The one who was only good enough for being pimped out in exchange for other, better women.

If you want to understand her, you will have to start LISTENING.

And stop defending the swinging. The very fact that it was not exclusive is what makes it pornographic. Pokerface is not imagining anything other than what you told us.

All BWs, me, Pokerface AND your wife - are deeply hurt when a man tells us we are not good enough to be the only one.

Then you made it so she was disposable enough to give away to other men.

Pokerface is giving you an ACCURATE summation of how hurt your wife is and how quickly you need to remedy this.

i was referring to what she said to me not as is an act that she did, i mentioned what she had said in a previous post

I can see how it could be viewed as porn be we are not talking about a singular man in the room here whilst i just stood on the side and watched, we are talking about multiple couples all together