Installing a VAR is not any harder in the UK than it is anywhere else in the world. You are throwing up "UK" objections to things like this and a polygraph test hoping that nobody here will be able to say any different - but you're forgetting that there are people here from the UK who have done these things!

I've used a VAR in the UK. You need to be very careful not to get caught because you want this to work. If the VAR is discovered you will not get any evidence.

Don't make excuses about being landed in court. Do you really think your wife is going to take you to court and give evidence against you on a witness stand? Do you think she wants to be questioned under oath about her affair? Because that's what bringing a case against you will allow you to do.

If the car is in your name, it's legal to have a VAR in it anyway.

Stop making excuses - and for heaven's sake, DON'T plan to trust your wife. Where has trust got you so far? Remember, you'd be a fool to trust an active wayward! An active wayward is a liar and deceiver!

Dave. Plan A is showing your wife that you can meet her needs and be the husband she wants and respects.


If your counsellor does not have a "Plan" to teach you how to stop your AO then I would enroll in an anger management course. Maybe do this in addition to delving into it with the counsellor.

Enrolling in an anger management course would go a long way in showing your wife your determination to change and get control of yourself. Taking that step is an "action" ...not just words.

Is your son also frightened of you when you get angry? Is snapping a band around your wrist really going to teach you how to get a handle on your anger? Be honest with yourself and do whatever it takes to clean up your side of the street.

Pokerface, the councilling said in our last session with both of us that she would help me with my anger management in my solo session, so this way at least my wife as heard this as well. My son doesn't have any issues as the AO only occur with my wife, the elastic band is a well know physiological technique as is really a tempory thing

You dont seem to understand that your wife is untrustworthy because her lovebank is over the threshold with OM. this makes her an addict.

I am in the UK and found buying and using voice recorders very easy. There is is no need to 'install' them, you just switch them on and put them somewhere discreet.

I am not sure what type of legal action you think will result from using a recordable device in your own home and property. What law are you breaking? What are the penalties? 'Used against you in court' - what does that mean?

And a GPS in your vehicle is a common security method in case it is stolen, anyway.

good points and will get onto this as well, there has definately been now contact though via pc's mobiles for several weeks now.

One thing i found out about the OM and his wife through the grapevine so to speak (and i thought i had posted this) is that they are both quitting their jobs to go spend a year travelling the world, to me sounds like he is "running" away now and trying to woo\rebuild with his own wife after every and leave the mess he has put me in behind.

That's great but cake eaters are just as happy with naughty pics and email contact or phone calls as they are with in-person contact.

I doubt this serial cheater has reformed and if he wants to continue indulging in contact with your wife, he will do.

If he has access to phone, email or any other kind of contact with your wife he remains a danger, even if he is on the other side of the world.

Be vigilant!

I take it you mean the OM been the cake eater ? so any suggestions as to things i can do and show wife to win her heart back, at the moment as i say she says she cant see a future together, and that she doesnt love me , but has said if i am not willing to just let her go then she will give it time and see how her feelings change? so how do i captilize on this. Like i said before i think we have gone from "i want a speartion now" and no counsilling to we are going to councillsing and she is no longer thinking separation and saying to give it time.

I took it when she said "if your not willing to let me go" as in that she can see i am fighting for her and not just giving in, and she hasnt walked out of the door or continued to look at separtion etc and still in the same house and gradually we are are starting to have normal conversations and she seems to slowly be relaxing more with me.

All waywards are cake-eaters. They want to have cake at home and eat out too. You were doing this yourself until this painful event made you clamp down on it.

When I say 'cake eaters' in the previous post, I mean OM AND your WW. OM knows how to get cake wherever, but he has spent time grooming your W, and may not give her up that easily. Obviously it's excelent news if he does.

Then there's your WW. In spite of her talk of counselling and acting closer to you, you should not trust anything but the proof of your own vigilance. Since she became addicted to OM, it's perfectly possible that she enjoys you as home-cake (your role as father to her child, financial support, affection) but still craves his attention on the side. It is what she was doing during the A, after all. This is why most waywards are happy to carry on long distance. Since its only side-action, they dont need actual contact.

If you're being fully vigilant, and filling up her love bank you're in a good position to make progress.

If she gets ANY contact with him, her love bank for him is re-triggered and that will either reignite the affair or set the clock back to day one for her withdrawal from him.

So snooping tools are a must. For example, you could catch her enquiring after him to an acquaintance on the phone, or spot her googling him before actual contact occurs. This would prevent her giving in to the addiction and give you a head start.

ok cool so any tips on things i can say and do to convince her to want me more, like i said she feels like there is no furutre me and that i have promised ot change in the past and failed after a short time and she was a fool, how do i convice her it is all sooo real this tim

What things does she cite as the problems? What are her greatest problems with the marriage?

All I keep hearing is she doesn't love me n can't make herself love me, that I have promised to make change before n that after a short time I have gone back and that she has been a fool to believe me. She says I a controlling and afraid of how I react when she doesn't agree to me, that have paid her enough attention or our family etc

She also said "I want to be happy and you only get once chance to do that" god I am in bits I love her so much

Anger is a way of controlling people.



Ask your councellor what her PLAN is to teach you how to control your anger. Is she an anger management specialist? That is what you need.

You may be able to kill the affair but it will be for naught if you don't change yourself.

I'm trying to help you here Dave.

Pokerface has a point.

Your counsellor does seem to know her stuff, she's counselling you both separately and seems to know MB.

But you will want to demonstrate change to your wife in a way she can't ignore.

When people are still wayward and foggy, they act a bit drunk, a bit deaf. They 'cant see' past the way they feel right now. They dont see that present actions will have an effect on their future feelings.

Your wife also has historical reasons to distrust you. So you need to go above and beyond to SHOW her, you arent just spouting words.

I would check if your counsellor is a specialist in anger management. If she is, even then I would still offer to your wife that you will do additional anger management training if that what she wants to feel safer.

Every complaint from her is an opportunity for you to show she gets to have complaints and you will listen. Then go the extra mile to fix it. Without anger!

It will take time for her to trust that this is long term, so you have to make big gestures at the start.

Did you offer her a polygraph and postnup too?

Yes she has experience in ager management and we are to focus on that in our ext solo session. I am and have trying to eliminate all LB and my wife's says she has seen changes in me already, but as I said before she also says I have changed before n then slipped and she feels a fool etc I know your tryin to help n I really do appreciate it

Dotnetdave,

There is no contact with the om or anyone associated, not sure what you mean by triggers? At the moment we have very little conversation, separate rooms, no touching etc

Triggers are people, places and things that remind us of past events. For example houses in which you engaged in swinging parties, or even the name of the town, or the sister of a swinger your WW still considers a friend. As a personal example, the other week my W hugged OM4s daughter, which put me back into a really bad place.

Sometimes couples have to move far away, get rid of prized possessions, drop friends and change jobs just to get away from triggers. Don't Shat where you eat, it gets everywhere.

The sad fact about swinging is that it just seems like a way for alpha males to sample other males spouses with seemingly no downside. The guy finds out too late that his spouse is taken with women or has fallen for some guy, while he is separated out as one of the goats. Notice that ADs for swinging events always list no single males, clearly a mans W is his ticket in.

God Bless
Gamma

Indie

I have offered both and she says she believes me and doesn't want a postnuptial she said "i don't want any agreements. I just want you to see why I think the way I do" which I really do and said I do to her. She doesn't seem to see that present actions etc can affect future feelings no matter what

When you say go above n beyond to show her I am willing to but I just don't know how

Offering actions is good and that's what you've done. She wont believe you overnight.

Do you think you can give us a list of her top ENS? Can you guess them?

I got all the same fog babble that you are getting now. Not in love with you, just want to be happy so on and so on.

Most likely, your W thinks it impossible that she will actually fall back in love with you again. Until MB, my W thought the same thing. What she didn�t understand is that feeling do follow actions and the LB concept.

Even without REALLY understanding MB and incorporating it (at the time we were in the middle of a FR) I was able to get my W to fall back in love with me. I took out all expectations of her and just solely focused on myself. I had kicked her out of the house after dday #1 and we were not living together.

Pressure never works. Pressure only pushes them away. I took every opportunity to prove to her I had cleaned up my side of the fence. I took every opportunity to deposit as many LB units as possible without ANY pressure on her.

Over time, she fell back in love with me. One of the most comforting concepts of Dr. Harley�s that is SO true is that Feelings Follow Actions. Remember that in your darkest moments.

Also, remember there is no guarantee of ANYTHING right now. Best thing you can do is follow the advice given here, just focus on controlling your own actions and let the chips fall where they may.

AND, if and when she decides to actually start R with you, that is only the beginning my friend. R is a long, long, long road. Be prepared for the roller coaster ride of your life.

You have to prepare yourself to be the best you can be for YOU and your future however this goes.


Neediness = MAJOR attraction killer. Have some self respect and boundaries. She will respect you for that.


That is really all you can do. Remember: Feelings follow actions. Right now, her actions are following her feelings.

I would say affection, conversation, family, honesty, the affection is hard as she seems to not accept and/or want it and conversations something I continually trying but it's like pulling teeth, she doesn't seem to like been alone with me and either always makes sure our son is about or makes an excuse to leave the room